posted
Legion Secret Origins: Well, there you go, it's cannon that Gim's from (once named)Israel and Jerusalem. But's it's his working on a kibbutz that seals the Jewish background. No question there!
-------------------- 'In the twinkling of an eye' I'll be dancing in the sky!
Come, join me!
From: Salem, Oregon USA | Registered: Aug 2003
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Set
There's not a word yet, for old friends who've just met.
posted
quote:Originally posted by cleome: In a sense, Levitz sent a mixed signal, because I think the writers and editors in the 1980s didn't want to blatantly pour a whole lot of religious elements into the stories.
The pendulum, she swings. DC pretty much got off the ground thanks to a pair of Jewish men making a Christ-metaphor named Kal-El (Mighty Warrior of the Lord), something played upon heavy-handedly in the last Superman movie (with all the 'sent you, my only son, to be their savior' references).
Then they avoided religion for awhile. Now they are back to throwing around religious terminology willy-nilly (calling Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman a 'Trinity,' for instance).
Gim has never worn his identity on his sleeve, but the same could be said about a lot his beliefs (in the threeboot, the only evidence at all is that his brother has a star of David on his nightstand). He's generally been portrayed more physical than philosophical. We've heard more about Jan and Tasmias spiritual beliefs than any of the Earth-folk.
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
Lightning Lad, Saturn Girl and Invisible Kid II were Christians (note the Christening of Grayam) and Jacques said during the LSH 59 (baxter) i believe.
-------------------- Bring back the super-cousins
From: nyc | Registered: Jul 2003
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Set
There's not a word yet, for old friends who've just met.
posted
quote:Originally posted by Superboy-Supergirl: Lightning Lad, Saturn Girl and Invisible Kid II were Christians (note the Christening of Grayam) and Jacques said during the LSH 59 (baxter) i believe.
Ooh, I'd forgotten that Jacques used to say 'Sacre Mere' every now and then, a reference to the Virgin Mary.
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
Yah know. I remember suggesting on the DC boards, oh ten or more years ago, that DC should add a book teaming the big 3, rather than just having Batman and Superman together.
I suggested that they call the book, Trinity!
I'm rather proud of that, and Umbra, whom I also suggested right down to her name. I know it's just coincidence, but still.
And I wasn't thinking of the Godhead at the time of the Trinity suggestion, either.
-------------------- 'In the twinkling of an eye' I'll be dancing in the sky!
Come, join me!
From: Salem, Oregon USA | Registered: Aug 2003
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cleome46
or you can do the confusion 'til your head falls off
posted
[snip]
quote:Originally posted by Candle: But seriously, in the long run, I agree that it shouldn't have been done. (Rokk makes much more sense as Jewish, .)
Whoa. I wasn't saying that it shouldn't have been done. I remember seeing the page that Nightcrawler posted (before I was reading any superhero comics at all, so it must have been at a friend's house) and thinking it was pretty cool. I already knew that a lot of famous comic book creators were Jewish, and it bugged me that there never seemed to be any characters that were. Young as I was, I still knew that there was something "off" about that.
No reason why they couldn't both be under the same umbrella, so to speak. Judaism has plenty of divisions and sects already. Who knows how many more there'd be once the faithful were all living several planets away from one another.
If you wanted to upend negative stereotypes, a surefire way to do it would be to make the poorest planet in the U.P. heavily populated by Jewish people.
[snip]
quote:I think though that having a whole group of people with NO beliefs in or versions of God would be just as unrealistic and intrusive as having EVERYONE with them. And that's my opinion.
The closest thing I remember to a Legionnaire with an open "no belief" policy would be Brainiac Five, when he argued with Dawnstar and she told him that he was "incapable of seeing beyond anything but your wretched machines!" That's a strong implication of Atheism, even if it wasn't openly stated as such.
Though to be honest, I don't think of Atheism as "lack of belief." It's only a different set of beliefs.
-------------------- Hey, Kids! My "Cranky and Kitschy" collage art is now viewable on flickr. Drop by and tell me that I sent you.
From: Vanity, OR | Registered: Dec 2008
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cleome46
or you can do the confusion 'til your head falls off
posted
[snip]
quote:Originally posted by Set: The pendulum, she swings. DC pretty much got off the ground thanks to a pair of Jewish men making a Christ-metaphor named Kal-El (Mighty Warrior of the Lord), something played upon heavy-handedly in the last Superman movie (with all the 'sent you, my only son, to be their savior' references).
I always thought of Kal-El as being more a metaphor for the immigrant experience: Nobody has to know who I am. Nobody must know who I am. How can I do good in this place where nobody is like me, without risking a revelation of who I am? What will everyone say when they know? What will they do?
[snip]
quote:Gim has never worn his identity on his sleeve, but the same could be said about a lot his beliefs (in the threeboot, the only evidence at all is that his brother has a star of David on his nightstand). He's generally been portrayed more physical than philosophical. We've heard more about Jan and Tasmia's spiritual beliefs than any of the Earth-folk.
I haven't read all of threeboot, so the cynic in me had naturally assumed that the retcon had been unretconned. Thanks for letting me know that I was mistaken.
-------------------- Hey, Kids! My "Cranky and Kitschy" collage art is now viewable on flickr. Drop by and tell me that I sent you.
From: Vanity, OR | Registered: Dec 2008
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cleome46
or you can do the confusion 'til your head falls off
posted
quote:Originally posted by Pizza Delivery Girl: Ha!
I'd seen this before but flaked out on bookmarking it and then promptly forgot where it was!
-------------------- Hey, Kids! My "Cranky and Kitschy" collage art is now viewable on flickr. Drop by and tell me that I sent you.
From: Vanity, OR | Registered: Dec 2008
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Set
There's not a word yet, for old friends who've just met.
posted
quote:Originally posted by cleome: I always thought of Kal-El as being more a metaphor for the immigrant experience: Nobody has to know who I am. Nobody must know who I am. How can I do good in this place where nobody is like me, without risking a revelation of who I am? What will everyone say when they know? What will they do?
Super-heroes in general (particularly those with secret identities) are often also considered metaphors for the closeted gay experience.
Humdrum 'normal' life, oh so carefully keeping the secret (and often having sub-plots involving keeping their 'other life' secret from friends and family) and looking just like everybody else, followed by a flamboyantly-dressed and extroverted secret life at night where the hero gets to come out and show off and 'be themself.' Spider-man is a classic example. Nebbish normal life, somewhat geeky and self-conscious, with a totally over-the-top and 'flamboyant' masked persona.
None of the superheroes need to actually be gay (or immigrants, or Jewish) to often serve as metaphors (or even inspirations) for members of those communities.
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
I've reread the Levitz interview a couple of times now, and each time I'm a little taken back when he drops the f-bomb ... anyone else having the same "omigod, Mr. Rogers cursed" kinda feeling?
-------------------- Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water...
From: The waters off eastern Long Island | Registered: Jul 2003
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cleome46
or you can do the confusion 'til your head falls off
posted
[snip]
quote:Originally posted by Set: ...Super-heroes in general (particularly those with secret identities) are often also considered metaphors for the closeted gay experience.
Yeah, but Superman was the first one to wear a leotard, I think. Okay, The Scarlet Pimpernel wore stockings and Zorro wore a mask, but...
quote:...None of the superheroes need to actually be gay (or immigrants, or Jewish) to often serve as metaphors (or even inspirations) for members of those communities.
Yes, but this shouldn't be a one-way street. Let's see all fans, including those in dominant groups (that is, those most likely to be "the norm" or "the default") try out their skills at identifying with somebody who is openly (as opposed to just metaphorically or by subtle implication) Not Like Them. Otherwise it smacks of power-over relationships and a double standard, to me.
-------------------- Hey, Kids! My "Cranky and Kitschy" collage art is now viewable on flickr. Drop by and tell me that I sent you.
From: Vanity, OR | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
I haven't bought comics in almost a year now..but with the announcement that Gail Simone will be back with a new run of Birds of Paradise AND Levitz will be writing "my" Legion--guess I'll be giving DC some cash again.
The art looks GREAT, even if I'm still not crazy about some of the costumes. I'll be happy with pretty much anything though. I just want lots of Nura and Dirk, and Jeckie to go back to being PROJECTRA and ditch the whole Sensor Girl thing.
From: Memphis, TN | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I can't wait for this, I've read some old issue of Paul's run because I haven't been able to get some of the trades of it and I am confident that it will be good. So I can't wait and the art looks awesome and can't wait for two Legion books! I hope they give out promotional Legion Rings like the Green Lantern and Flash ones they are.
-------------------- "There is always a solution to every Obstacle."-Karate Kid
From: Earth-Henderson,NV | Registered: Jan 2006
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