cleome46
or you can do the confusion 'til your head falls off
posted
[snip]
quote:Originally posted by Nightcrawler: Now, with that said...would you guys who aren't fans of Giffen's art be this open with your opinions like this if Giffen were a member here?
Who knows? Maybe he'd be glad that people are fired up about it, so long as they're not indifferent.
-------------------- Hey, Kids! My "Cranky and Kitschy" collage art is now viewable on flickr. Drop by and tell me that I sent you.
From: Vanity, OR | Registered: Dec 2008
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cleome46
or you can do the confusion 'til your head falls off
posted
MLLASH:
quote:I think it's notable that Manapul's style on ADVENTURE and FLASH is very different from his style on LSH.
I like what I've seen of his recent work, but I'm not really a huge fan of the Flash mythos. I'm content to just look at the previews and leave it at that.
-------------------- Hey, Kids! My "Cranky and Kitschy" collage art is now viewable on flickr. Drop by and tell me that I sent you.
From: Vanity, OR | Registered: Dec 2008
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Now, with that said...would you guys who aren't fans of Giffen's art be this open with your opinions like this if Giffen were a member here?
I admit to being a slavish Giff-fan as many know, however I do feel I could state to Keith that I disliked his 'abstract squiggles Trencher period' and that he would probably (hopefully!) take it in good humour...
I am not a slavish Giffen-fan. I did like his Legion art when he was doing it for Paul Levitz. It was truly amazing stuff. I did not like his art for the 5YL period. I agree with Silver Age Lad in stating that I think his art in that period was poor. Obviously those that liked his art from that period would not think that it is poor.
I would have written the above even if Mr. Giffen was a member here. As a comic book professional, he should know that there are some who won't like his work and think that he is a poor artist. Who knows, he might even look back at his art from that period and muse "What was I thinking?" or he might think "This is the best I've ever done" or something in between.
-------------------- Five billion years from now the Sun will go nova and obliterate the Earth. Don't sweat the small stuff!
From: Boston | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
my point was: is art itself poor merely because the viewer doesn't like it?
people are saying "the art is poor" rather than "I found the art poor."
little difference, perhaps - but I would suggest the latter is less likely to tick off people of a different opinion, while the former can be read as if the poster is asserting "that's the way it is, period."
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada | Registered: Dec 2003
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quote:Originally posted by MLLASH: Seriously, I think the Giff would be cool with honest criticisms... I'd LOVE to see him here one day...!
I do think above all else he is a LSH fan.
He needs to have me run a Facebook Page for him!!!
If you follow him at DC boards, he is probably the most humble artist you can find. There is a guy who absolutely loathes everything he does with Doom Patrol and Giffen loves to have him around (really!). So, yeah, I am quite sure he might be reading what we are writing here (then, maybe, he only writes/reads Legion forum at the DC board) and I wouldn't change a line. Even though I like the more streamlined artwork of recent Booster Gold and Mad Hatter one-shot, for me, his peak was during 5YL.
From: Brasil | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Kent: my point was: is art itself poor merely because the viewer doesn't like it?
people are saying "the art is poor" rather than "I found the art poor."
little difference, perhaps - but I would suggest the latter is less likely to tick off people of a different opinion, while the former can be read as if the poster is asserting "that's the way it is, period."
Exactly. Finding the art poor = opinion. The art is poor = statement based on laws of aesthetics. That's just what I was talking about. Obviously, just because the art is complicated/busy doesn't mean it is good. But I would never consider Bill Sienkewicz art as bad just because it is complicated, for instance. It's undeniable he masters composition, tracing etc. It may not be to one's taste? Definitely. So, Nightcrawler, I really wasn't trying to tick anyone off, just stating there is a huge difference between liking something and commanding of art.
From: Brasil | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Ricardo: But I would never consider Bill Sienkewicz art as bad just because it is complicated, for instance. It's undeniable he masters composition, tracing etc. It may not be to one's taste? Definitely.
I'm glad there was no internet around when I was young and first discovered Bill Sienkewicz's art, otherwise I would now be really embarrassed to read the things I would have written about someone who is one of my favourite artists today.
From: Australia | Registered: Dec 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Kent: my point was: is art itself poor merely because the viewer doesn't like it?
people are saying "the art is poor" rather than "I found the art poor."
little difference, perhaps - but I would suggest the latter is less likely to tick off people of a different opinion, while the former can be read as if the poster is asserting "that's the way it is, period."
Except Silver Age Lad gave reasons beyond "I didn't like it" for why he thought the art was poor. Specifically, "The 5YL art does not tell the story well IMHO. it was regularyly difficult to tell what was happening and who was whom." and "For me the artwork during 5YL greatly detracted from some very good storylines. Comic art is supposed to tell a story - if it does not then it is poor IMHO." And note that SAL phrases this as his opinion. "IMHO" & "for me".
Even still, would it be fair to say that you don't find the art to be poor, mostly because you like it?
You maybe ticked off because it is being said "the art is poor" rather than "I found the art poor", but in the same way when it is said "the art wasn't poor" instead of "I didn't find the art poor" it will tick people off. And in a way, saying "the art wasn't poor" to someone who just said "the art was poor IMHO" is to discount/invalidate their opinion.
-------------------- Five billion years from now the Sun will go nova and obliterate the Earth. Don't sweat the small stuff!
From: Boston | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Power Boy: KG is my baby daddy.
-------------------- Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water...
From: The waters off eastern Long Island | Registered: Jul 2003
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future king
Excuse me but can you please direct me to the La Brea Tar Pits in Los Angeles?
posted
quote:Originally posted by cleome: [snip]
quote:Originally posted by Nightcrawler: Now, with that said...would you guys who aren't fans of Giffen's art be this open with your opinions like this if Giffen were a member here?
Who knows? Maybe he'd be glad that people are fired up about it, so long as they're not indifferent.
I agree. I think he'd appreciate the honesty about his craft. I wouldn't hold back if Keith was on here ... I didn't with Francis.
I enjoyed Giffen's work when he first came to the Legion but once he drastically changed his style then I started to lose interest. That's it.
From: ontario | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
I think this argument should be put to rest once and for all, but my last two cents worth on it is this:
I'm quite sure Keith Giffen knew that a lot of fans would be displeased when he changed his artistic style drastically after the Great Darkness Saga, and again in 5YL, and he chose to do it anyway, knowing full well it would cause an outcry from the readers. I'm quite sure he's heard all these criticisms before and was not surprised by them, so I don't think he'd be surprised to read them again today.
p.s. I think I even got a letter published, in which I complained about Giffen's new style back in the day, but don't ask me what issue.
posted
the cover is in a style that is not what "we" expect in a legion cover. think of Darwyn Cooke for example. having said that, i don't like it either. it doesn't convey future. it doesn't make me want to buy the issue. it mostly comes of as a nostalgia, tongue-in-cheek kind of thing. not a "must-buy". not exciting. not happening. something for the old legion fans, but a wink wink to the cool nu kids. ick.
-------------------- Gorilla Nebula
From: san francisco | Registered: Jul 2003
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Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
posted
What? Think Darwyn Cooke doing an LSH cover?
Don't get my hopes up!
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
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