quote:Originally posted by future king: P.S. Just look at the variant cover for DC Universe Legacies #6 ... I rest my case.
Er, I honestly think it's a decent cover, personally. I know it hasn't been a consensus favorite, but don't presume everyone agrees with you.
Not presuming anything there CT ... I know better than that. It is my opinion alone. Period. I hate the art, you like the art, that's fine.
No analysis of my intentions is necessary, thank you very much.
Well, that's cool, but if a lawyer rests his case, he (or she) generally feels that he has presented the best evidence he could to prove his point. So when you said that, it implied (intended or not) that said piece of artwork was all the proof we would need that Giifen's art is "hideous". That's what I took issue with.
I know Giffen, and specifically his artwork, is controversial and devisive, but he nonetheless does have his fans. I personally haven't loved every single permutation of his style but am a big fan particularly of his early work with Levitz and his work on 5YL.
So please, Giffen haters, keep in mind that different fans have different tastes and that if they disagree with you, that doesn't necessarily mean that you are right and they are wrong.
Respect always.
^That said, Giffen does need to get over his hate for one Mr. Val Armorr!
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
As far as Keith Giffen's art ever since the Omen and Prophet story, I'd much rather see Joe Staton or Steve Ditko return for a Legion story. All three can tell a story with their art, but in my opinion their cartoony style is not really suited for the Legion.
As a co-plotter under Levitz, Giffen shined and had a great chemistry with Paul, and early on his art was pretty good to, still at his best he was no Cockrum, Sherman or Lightle at their best IMO.
I remember kind of being bummed out when he replaced Pat Broderick on the book, But I do doubt Broderick would have had the same passion or impact on the GDS up until the Omen story as Giffen did.
Another thing I remember is when Giffen did that big Legion poster, he said it burned him out and right after that it showed through in his art.
The last thing I remember is when Steve Lightle took over the book from Keith, I was like hell yeah, this is how the Legion should look, and Steve brought the artistic passion back to the book.
-------------------- I tried to rip their soul out.I tried to make them forget Superman. But they won't.
From: Kentucky | Registered: Oct 2005
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I'm actually looking forward to this and hope some of the magic that was the first Legion Annual can be recaptured in this one.
From: San Diego, CA | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
This is highly speculative, but it could be cool if the new Annual somehow mirrors the earlier one a bit and follows up on Danielle Foccart. We haven't seen her since the TMK/early Legionnaires era have we? And we haven't seen the version that's still in continuity in forever. (She never appeared during the Reboot era, did she?) All I can remember is that she was cured of her Computo infliction. Can anyone clarify her appearances and status post-Annual 1 thru the end of the Baxter era? Also, did she appear at all during Lightning Saga/Superman-LSH/L3W/Adventure backup stories so far that comprise the retroboot?
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
IMO Giffen is like a lot of other creators - hit or miss. His writing has been a lot more miss than hit for me lately though. And his art has been all miss. I think that if that variant Legacies cover had been submitted by anyone who wasn't already an industry name then they would have been shown the door and told to look for a new career. It's just that bad IMO.
I'm still looking forward to the Annual though and loving the fact that we're even getting one. I'm so glad that DC seems to have gone back to it's original format of creating Annuals and all those dumb 'themed' ones seem to be a thing of the past (even though there were a couple of good ones in there too).
Chief Taylor's idea of tying it in with Danielle Foccart is a great one and would be an opportunity to give Jacques some much-needed attention too.
From: Australia | Registered: Dec 2003
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Silver Age Lad
Part-time member living in another century
posted
quote:Originally posted by Chief Taylor:
quote:Originally posted by future king:
quote:Originally posted by Chief Taylor:
quote:Originally posted by future king: P.S. Just look at the variant cover for DC Universe Legacies #6 ... I rest my case.
Er, I honestly think it's a decent cover, personally. I know it hasn't been a consensus favorite, but don't presume everyone agrees with you.
Not presuming anything there CT ... I know better than that. It is my opinion alone. Period. I hate the art, you like the art, that's fine.
No analysis of my intentions is necessary, thank you very much.
Well, that's cool, but if a lawyer rests his case, he (or she) generally feels that he has presented the best evidence he could to prove his point. So when you said that, it implied (intended or not) that said piece of artwork was all the proof we would need that Giifen's art is "hideous". That's what I took issue with.
I know Giffen, and specifically his artwork, is controversial and devisive, but he nonetheless does have his fans. I personally haven't loved every single permutation of his style but am a big fan particularly of his early work with Levitz and his work on 5YL.
So please, Giffen haters, keep in mind that different fans have different tastes and that if they disagree with you, that doesn't necessarily mean that you are right and they are wrong.
Respect always.
That goes two ways. Giffen defenders seem happy to insist that they are right.
-------------------- "Our devotion to each other was unexplainable" "You were kids" "No Batman, we were Legion"
From: Ancient Kingdom of Northumbria, UK | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
SA Lad, I'm not sure if I'm one of those 'Giffen defenders' you refer to, but I should point out that I said, "I personally haven't loved every single permutation of his style but am a big fan particularly of his early work with Levitz and his work on 5YL." I think that makes it fairly clear that I don't think he walks on water.
Again, my objection is to dealing in absolutes and particularly phrasing words in such a way as to imply others are wrong for thinking differently. My defense here is of those whom those assertions would disrespect.
By all means, share your opinions here on whatever you feel like sharing, even if they're negative. But always be mindful and respectful of differing opinions. If one thinks Giffen's art is "hideous", then provide examples and don't phrase them in such a way that someone who likes his art is being degraded. "In my opinion" is always a respectful route to go as far as verbage. Also, if there's any thing nice at all you can add about Giffen's work, it shows a more balanced viewpoint.
Again, I'm not trying to attack anyone here, but this particular awesome message board is built primarily on the tenet of "respect". Show respect here, and your views will be respected in turn.
-------------------- "Suck it, depressos!"--M. Lash
From: The Underbelly of Society | Registered: Jul 2003
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There was an issue of DCCP with the Creeper that was incomprehensible ro me fronm what I remember.
The Trencher style with the hash marks everywhere.
Giffen I do like...
Everything else.
No artist turns in perfect work every time...none.
From: Turn around... | Registered: Jul 2003
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cleome46
or you can do the confusion 'til your head falls off
posted
I think Giffen's always been at his best and most consistent so far as page composition goes. His early illustration was handsome but could be stiff and limited in the variety of images. His later work is more fluid and spontaneous looking, but sometimes borders on being incoherent. Some of its mannerisms also get in the way of the faces being as expressive as they could be, as opposed to the forms-- which have a strong sense of gesture that I usually find to be appealing.
Of course, I've always envied his design sense. A good artist should make it look easy to immerse a reader in an environment that doesn't exist but yet has to feel plausible. From what I've seen, that's been a fairly consistent strength of his, too. The costumes have had their ups and downs, but at their best they walk a good line between streamlined and having enough detail to differentiate between one character and the next.
I know a lot of fans disliked his "pocket costume" stage, but it had a paradoxical old-school, pre-superhero feel to it that grew on me eventually.
In any case, I haven't kept up with him lately, so I'll be curious to see where he is now, art-wise.
-------------------- Hey, Kids! My "Cranky and Kitschy" collage art is now viewable on flickr. Drop by and tell me that I sent you.
From: Vanity, OR | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
That being said...I am looking forward to this.
From: Turn around... | Registered: Jul 2003
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Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
posted
Hmm... maybe they'll address the mystery of what happened to the late v3 costumes Giff designed!
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Sarcasm Kid: Am I the only one not looking forward to this?
You are not alone. Jwould perfer to never see Giffen do anything Legion related. His reboot issue with Gear and Chuck cleaning Legion World was so horrible!! His 5YL crap is best forgotten. At least there is no KArate Kid for him to kill again, and again.
-------------------- I am smelling like a rose that somebody gave me on my birthday deathbed.
From: Orando | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Sarcasm Kid: Am I the only one not looking forward to this?
You are not alone. Jwould perfer to never see Giffen do anything Legion related. His reboot issue with Gear and Chuck cleaning Legion World was so horrible!! His 5YL crap is best forgotten. At least there is no KArate Kid for him to kill again, and again.
See, I think his 5YL stuff with the Bierbaums was some of the best characterization that some of these characters ever had. Plus they introduced several new and memorable characters that I would love to see enter the current continuity. That's not to say that everything they attempted worked perfectly...but it was a lot better than several other era's of Legion comics that we have gotten since then.
From: Turn around... | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Sarcasm Kid: Am I the only one not looking forward to this?
You are not alone. Jwould perfer to never see Giffen do anything Legion related. His reboot issue with Gear and Chuck cleaning Legion World was so horrible!! His 5YL crap is best forgotten. At least there is no KArate Kid for him to kill again, and again.
Again: Giffen was NOT responsible for the reboot issue of Gear and Chuck. He was just the artist. 5YL, on the other hand, is the best Legion era for me and most of my friends, so it's not crap. Crap is Kevin Sharpe's art. Or Justin Thyme.
From: Brasil | Registered: May 2008
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