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Thanks for posting the info on Brainy and Drake, Jim.
The thing about astrology is that you can read into any sign just about any personality trait someone chooses to express. I think its truer to say that ALL people exhibit the personality traits of each sign, depending on the situation they find themselves in, who they hang around/have to impress, and what's bothering them at the moment.
That said, Rosenberg's interpretations are interesting. Hope I get a chance to read the entire article at some point.
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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Glad you enjoyed it, Maybe I could scan the pages and email them to you if you like. But I highly recommend buying the book. It has lots of cool features and artwork in it and it wasn't too expensive.
Holy crap! I actually started a thread that made it past page 1! Does it count that half the posts are from me?
-------------------- Buy my new graphic novel! http://www.dodeka12.com
From: Champaign, IL | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Jerry: It's worth noting that the world of astrology experienced a major shake up recently when a astronomers pointed out that the traditionally accepted astrological charts didn't take into account one of the major constellations and changes in the Earth's rotation. ... This change means that the majority of us have lived out our lives believing that we were the "wrong" sign.
You'd think that if astrology worked, they would have noticed that astrology hadn't been working for the past decades or centuries.
Gee, it's almost as if it doesn't work at all but people are able to convince themselves that it has--no matter what its actual results are.
Registered: Apr 2010
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quote:Originally posted by jimgallagher: Glad you enjoyed it, Maybe I could scan the pages and email them to you if you like. But I highly recommend buying the book. It has lots of cool features and artwork in it and it wasn't too expensive.
Holy crap! I actually started a thread that made it past page 1! Does it count that half the posts are from me?
I appreciate the offer. I'd love to buy it if I could find it at an affordable price (re: cheap!).
Yes, it counts . . . because the other half of the posts aren't from you (or something like that ).
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Ken Arromdee: Gee, it's almost as if it doesn't work at all but people are able to convince themselves that it has--no matter what its actual results are.
Thing is, Ken, that argument can be made for just about anything -- religion, democracy, civilization, starting a new business, rebooting fictional universes, etc. But that doesn't stop people from trying and hoping for the best.
As a Christian, I'm not *supposed* to believe in astrology. But then, as a Christian, (according to some) I'm not supposed to believe in same-sex marriage and gay rights. If one takes an even more extreme view, one can find arguments that integration or women's lib or progressive liberal Christianity don't work. But one can also find compelling arguments that they do.
If one is going to argue that astrology (or anything else) doesn't work, one should be prepared to back it up with examples. But, of course, people who believe it does work can back up their beliefs with examples of their own. And how would each side "prove" that a belief worked or didn't, anyway?
A better approach, I think, is to respect others' beliefs, even when they differ from one's own.
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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I don't believe in astrology, but I find it interesting to speculate on. I also don't believe in the Legion of Super Heroes, but I find them interesting to speculate on too.
-------------------- Buy my new graphic novel! http://www.dodeka12.com
From: Champaign, IL | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I just scanned Rosenberg's article with a text scanner. Below is the introduction. I'll post what he has to say about each Legionnaire later after I clean up the files a little.
Born Under a Triple Sun:
An Astrological Interpretation of the Legion
(From The Legion Outpost 10)
by Len Rosenberg
Five years ago, DC Comics came out with a super-hero calendar that assigned (rather arbitrarily, I thought) birthdates to the various characters appearing in its magazines. The Legion of Super-Heroes took up a good many days of the year, as was to be expected. I recall skimming past late February or early March (around the time of my own birthday), and grumbling loudly--to the surprise of the shoppers nearby "Humph! No way Sun Boy is a Pisces!"
You may gather from this that I am, in addition to being a comics fan, an astrologer.
I mean to stir no hornets nests by making this statement, but I know instinctively that I have divided you readers into two camps: the believers and the skeptics. Opposition to astrology is strong and vehement, championed by no-nonsense rational scientist types like Isaac Asimov and Carl Sagan, who seem to feel that astrology is symptomatic of the fall of civilization and the turning of humanity's brain cells into prune whip. Hitting somewhat closer to the fannish heart, the late Mort Weisinger, ex-Legion editor, once took out ads offering a large fee to anyone who could irrefutably convince him of astrology's validity. I believe the money went unclaimed.
While there are some astrologers who believe that the Sun, Moon, and planets have a direct, causal effect on the Earth's inhabitants--be it by gravitational fields, alteration of the Sun's coronal radiation, or whatever--there are equally large numbers of astrologers who favor psychologist Carl Jung's theory of synchronicity: that the events of a particular time share the qualities of that time, whether they occur in interplanetary space or in interpersonal society, and that one can be inferred from the other without any causal relationship. However it is that astrology works, there are millions who will assert that it does work. While I don't expect to convince the skeptics, I do hope that they will find this article of some interest anyway for its character interpretations.
Returning to that 1976 DC calendar: I was annoyed by the birthdates given to the non-Earthborn characters; if Tenzil Kem's birth occurred on the date called February 8 on Earth, he is unlikely to celebrate his birthday on February 8 again unless Bismoll's sun-cycie is identical with Earth's, which is highly unlikely. The potential problems of interstellar timekeeping are immense; it seemed to me the only dates that weren't meaningless were those of the Earthborn Legionnaires, and as an astrologer, those struck me as being off-base as well.
How does one determine the astrological make-up of a fictional character? Well, first of all, you examine the personality traits exhibited by the character and work backward from there. In a case like the Legion, where a dozen writers have imposed their different interpretations, and where the emphasis has been on action over character development, it isn't easy. One aid is astrology's use of correspondences; colors, metals, parts of the body, etc. are "ruled" by different signs and planets, so a character's costume, skills, powers and origin can indicate an astrological leaning. The result need not necessarily be the individual's "Sunsign"; we all have every sign influencing our personalities, but the sign rising, or the signs containing planets, are emphasized. A Sun in Pisces may have a "Leo-type" personality if there are many planets or the Moon in Leo, perhaps, with Leo rising. So, despite my outcry, maybe Sun Boy is a Pisces ... but a Fish strongly modified by Leonine influences, as you'll see.
I'm told that Steve Englehart, who is also an astrologer, searched his ephemeris (a listing of planet's places in the zodiac) when he was writing Dr. Strange, and chose a birthdate astrologically appropriate for the good Mage. Strange happens to be a Scorpio--a sign associated with surgery, sorcery and alcohol consumption. With no ephemerides for the Thirtieth Century, and barring an unexpected grant from a rich fan who will buy computer time to figure the planetary positions for, say, 2960 A.D., I will have to be less specific in my use of dates.
A thousand years hence, the vernal point will have moved (and the siderial astrologers with it) only halfway through the constellation of the Water-carrier. Sort of the noon-day of the Age of Aquarius. (When dealing with stars, you're dealing with slow effects.) The planets, in comparison, will have been whizzing by, even far-out pokey Pluto. And on the third planet from the Sun, the following Legionnaires will have been born:
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Sun Boy: As the Sun is the center of the Solar system, surrounded by dependent planets, Leo--which is Sun-ruled--loves to be the center of attention, and is easy prey to flattery. Sun Boy's name and power are not the only links to Leo that Dirk exhibits; his enemy's name is Regulus--also the name of the brightest star in the constellation Leo, and gold (be it radioactive or not) is the sign's metal. I once asked Jim Shooter if he knew of these correspondences when he wrote the original Dr. Regulus story in Adventure #348; he said he did not. lnteresting coincidence, or Jung's synchronicty?
Dirk can be bossy and patronizing (he told the Substitute Heroes: "Your organization is ridiculous!" in Adventure #311)*. When under pressure, bossiness becomes a power complex; Dirk pulled rank in "Mutiny of the Legion" (Adventure #318). Leo is the showman, and when Sun Boy first joined the Legion, he wore a constant glowing aura; he probably leads the group in some amateur theatrical enterprises. He shows good deductive reasoning (Mercury in Virgo); combined with his friendship with Lightning Lad, this helped him discover Ayla's ruse when she impersonated her brother in Adventure #308--that and a well-placed hand on her chest.
Dirk should be matinee-idol handsome--and more than a little vain. He'd offer unsolicited advice, and cannot admit when he's wrong, but his affection is genuine. He appreciates art, and may design as well as collect sculpture. Like most Leos, he should watch out for back and heart trouble.
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Bouncing Boy: Despite his much-touted sense of humor, Bouncing Boy is portrayed as something of a worrier. He has pangs of self-doubt--l suspect soda pop and super-plastic serum aren't the only beverages he imbibes. He's also highly protective of his friends (Adventure #380). Cancerians have these qualities. They're also prone to be overweight, since they relate to things through the security of food and family. Most of Chuck's dates with Luornu probably revolved around ice cream shoppes.
Note that Jupiter, which works especially well in Cancer, typifies expansive (inflatable?) energy, and if well-aspected gives a jovial sense of humor. Also the Moon, ruler of Cancer, symbolizes fluctuating influences--like changing moods or on-again-off-again powers--and affects the stomach. If he's a typical Cancer, Chuck married Duo Damsel because she reminds him of Mom, or at least the way Mom cooks. Sentimental, he moons over his old Legion mementos, half loony with regrets and memories. Good thing one of Luornu can soothe ruffled feathers while the other of her putters around in the kitchen.
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Wildfire: In many ways, he's a kind of inverted Sun Boy.
Where Dirk's body serves to project energy, Drake's acts to contain it. Unexpected bursts of energy are associated with Aquarius. Leo is often conventional, and protects the status quo that keeps him "kingly" and special. Aquarius is unconventional, likes to break rules (at least in his youth) and identifies with the masses and the underdog. Astrophysics ahd space' flight are also Aquarian interests.
Unpredictable, rebellious, tactless: all qualities of a negative Aquarian, and of Mr. Burroughs. The sign rules the lower legs--from which Wildfire often chooses to project his energy. The stars are an Aquarian symbol, distant suns that symbolize hope and friendship, but are not as close or as warm as Leonine Sol. Of course, theres a star on Drake's chest--a star with long legs at that (another Aquarian trait!). A little-used aspect of Drake is his ability to "power" machinery, an example of the Aquarian love of gadgets and inventions.
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Invisible Kid: Despite his Aquarius-like inventiveness he was more of a researcher than a creator. Scorpio likes to research and investigate; natural detectives, they seek out the unknown. Often fascinated by death, they may have occult experiences dealing with the afterlife (remember Myla in Superboy #203?). Although Lyle probably had some strong earth-sign influences (his taste for brownish tones, his workout gym in his home), there's not a Scorpio on this planet who wouldn't give his eyeteeth to be invisible.
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Ferro Lad: Iron is the metal of Mars, planet of physical strength and energy, which rules two signs--Aries and Scorpio. Aries concerns the face; Scorpio concerns things that are hidden. Andy Nolan's face was so malformed that he hid it behind a solid mask. Scorp is a fixed sign, indicating the native stands firm. Aries, however, has the impulsiveness to rush out and sacrifice himself for his friends. Both signs must have been strong in his makeup.
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Colossal Boy: He displays Jupiter expansion again in height instead of width. Sagittarius is ruled by Jupiter; the Archer is traditionally frank and breezy, liking travel and outdoor work (Gim worked for his uncle on Mars), although accident-prone (Whoops! Watch out for that falling meteor, Gim!). His insistence on walking around as a giant might be an expression of insecurity (this way people will "look up" to him). His old Texas Ranger suit was just the sort of comfortable, outdoorsy outfit a Saj' would prefer; I can't imagine who could have induced him to bind himself up in that Buck Rogers headpiece and those criss-cross chest straps (unless, in accordance with his recent ethnicization, these are futuristic versions of a yarmulke and tefillin). At least the suit as it was originally drawn bared his Sagittarian thighs,* and the chest-symbol was Zeus's eagle. It might be noted that Gim's parents figure prominently in his Legion career, as hostages (Adventure #371-72) when the Legion of Super-Villains forced Gim to instruct their comrades (Saj' is the teacher), and now, with Mrs. Allon as president of Earth. A strong Fourth House influence is in his chart.
*I'm guessing Grell's version of the costume was the first one the author saw. --JG.
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