Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
posted
quote:Originally posted by Quislet, Esq.:
quote:Originally posted by Blacula: With it's well-documented history of gay/lesbian/bisexual/transgender characters, the Legion series is of course not an example of homophobia at work.
However - all of those characters were introduced/revealed post Five Year Gap, correct? That's therefore a loooooonnnng period of time where DC/Paul (as the team's longest writer) could have introduced a non-straight character into the universe but didn't.
I think the Vi/Ayla pairing occurred before the Five Year Gap. I had dropped the book when the Five Year Gap started.
I'm pretty sure Levitz only intended for them to be "close friends" in v3, though some fans interpreted this otherwise. They weren't really a couple until 5YL.
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Blacula: With it's well-documented history of gay/lesbian/bisexual/transgender characters, the Legion series is of course not an example of homophobia at work.
However - all of those characters were introduced/revealed post Five Year Gap, correct? That's therefore a loooooonnnng period of time where DC/Paul (as the team's longest writer) could have introduced a non-straight character into the universe but didn't.
I think the Vi/Ayla pairing occurred before the Five Year Gap. I had dropped the book when the Five Year Gap started.
It was overt and undeniable in 5YL, but strongly hinted at in Levitz' v.3. In fact, at one point, someone at DC (possibly Levitz himself) insisted they were just close friends, nothing more. It was the 80s, after all... public figures could be as obvious as Boy George, as long as they denied it.
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
Historically, the Legion has been out ahead of the pack when it comes to depicting gay (or at least, possibly gay) characters. As has been pointed out in this thread, before the '80s, the sexual lives of comic characters was not something that companies could depict. It was actually kind of shocking in New Teen Titans #1 (the baxter series) to see Dick Grayson in bed with Koriand'r. The whole "Northstar is gay" thing didn't happen til a couple of years after that.
Even today, there are very, very few prominent openly gay characters in mainstream comics. Off the top of my head I can only think of Batwoman and Renee Montoya. There are some other supporting characters, but can anyone name any other major league heroes?
Finally, I really don't think it's apt to call any series "homophobic" unless the writers actively set out to denigrate gay people in the book. Over the years, the writers of the Legion have done anything but.
From: Los Angeles, CA | Registered: Nov 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Director Lad: There are some other supporting characters, but can anyone name any other major league heroes?.
It's been downplayed lately, but Obsidian is arguably one of the most visible gay characters in the DCU.
-------------------- The only character in all of literature who has been described as "badnass" while using the phrase "vile miscreant."
From: The Pyngwyn Colonies of Planet Hyustyn | Registered: Aug 2005
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to be fair to Paul Levitz, he did introduce the strong hint that there was a relationship between Invisible Kid and Chemical King. i was always a bit peeved that Paul explicitly did NOT want Element Lad to be gay and thus created Shvaugn Erin. just as Mark Waid gave threeboot Invisible Kid an "out of character" crush on Supergirl to dispel the gay rumors. it seems almost every creative team takes a step towards establishing someone as gay then the next creative team steps back. it's bit silly since LSH has a large gay following. heck , even Archie comics now has a "gay".
-------------------- Gorilla Nebula
From: san francisco | Registered: Jul 2003
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I never knew Jan was supposed to be gay, and I liked his relationship with Shvaugn.
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada | Registered: Dec 2003
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Set
There's not a word yet, for old friends who've just met.
posted
For a series set 1000 years in the future, it was conceived of and mostly populated with extremely conservative white straight people, with the only the 'aliens' (Shady and Cham and Brainy) being 'colored,' before the eventual introduction of Tyroc (eighteen *years* later!).
Shooter got flak for attempting to make Ferro Lad black, after all, so it's hardly a shock that his musings on whether or not Jan would be gay were soundly ignored until the reboot (and even then, the 'gay' tag was dodged by making him express total indifference to whether or not Sean/Shvaugn was an innie or an outie).
I was kinda hoping that Waid would pick up that missed opportunity, and portray the teenagers of the 31st century as being blithely unconcerned with gender stereotypes, and for sleeps-around characters like Ayla or Jo to have some same-gender flings that nobody on the team seems to regard as being at all out of the ordinary, but he also shyed away from that, and, despite having a plethora of sexual relationships (during the series and alluded to as past affairs, like Val/Shady, Ayla/Jo and Ayla/Dirk), he didn't name-drop any same-sex hook ups, which, IMO, seemed a little unrealistic, considering the level of sexual freedom they were displaying.
Indeed, while I will rag on Geoff John's shortcomings as a Legion scribe to the end of time, he went and depicted Dawnstar as having been in a relationship with a Thanagarian woman, one that mattered enough that even when her memories returned and she had to leave, she left the woman her Flight Ring to remember her by.
I love the Legion, but the classic team has never been a dazzling beacon of enlightened inclusion, either racially or sexually.
I'd *like* to see more ethnic diversity, more non-humanoid aliens and more funky future relationships (do Carggites have triple marriages, each 'self' marrying a different individual, making polygamy the standard? for taht matter, is Carggite masturbation a 'team sport?' do hyrkrains have the same concept of fidelity as dolphins and consider intercourse about as meaningful as shaking someone's hand? are all durlans non-gendered, reproducing parthenogenetically, and is Gim happily married to someone that is not and never has been 'female' in any meaningful sense of the word?). But that ain't happened yet, and there are a *ton* of straight white characters that, no matter that they are relics of a less inclusive age, I still kinda love and want to see more of.
I also love ice cream, but it's never gonna taste like steak or curry.
I accept that not everything I like is going to do everything I want.
[ May 25, 2010, 08:22 PM: Message edited by: Set ]
Registered: Aug 2006
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^ I think the Dawnstar = lesbian/bisexual thing was actually Brad Meltzer, Set.
Though, since they wrote that arc together who knows what plot point belonged to which writer?
From: Australia | Registered: Dec 2003
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Set
There's not a word yet, for old friends who've just met.
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I'll take your word for it, as my comics are carefully sorted by 'stuff I got this week goes on top' and I'd probably need a couple hours to see who wrote that.
Perhaps Dawny didn't even notice, she was just turned on by the wings?
She's totally wing-sexual!
[ May 25, 2010, 09:21 PM: Message edited by: Set ]
Registered: Aug 2006
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I have never liked Dawnstar, yet I found myself wanting to like her when she was in that relationship--for a couple of panels. Then they went and ruined it by having her trot back to Wildfire so he could whine at her some more. Boring!
-------------------- Buy my new graphic novel! http://www.dodeka12.com
From: Champaign, IL | Registered: Jul 2003
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Set
There's not a word yet, for old friends who've just met.
posted
quote:Originally posted by jimgallagher: I have never liked Dawnstar, yet I found myself wanting to like her when she was in that relationship--for a couple of panels. Then they went and ruined it by having her trot back to Wildfire so he could whine at her some more. Boring!
On my list of things that I didn't much like there, was that they go through the trouble of introducing an aged 'adult Legion,' and then regress several of the characters into roles they'd outgrown (Brin & Ayla and Drake & Dawny, in particular, but also Garth-as-hothead).
Behold the shocking future of the Legion, where everything new is old again!
Registered: Aug 2006
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Everyone else has already said it, but I think the Legion is traditionally one of the MOST open-minded of mainstream comics.
I would love to see the Vi/Ayla relationship happen again, though even if that doesn't happen I think Ayla and Brin being together again is a horrible step back for BOTH characters.
The original Light Lass was one of the characters I hated most in the Legion because all she ever did was hang off Timber Wolf's arm and smother him. Then the amazing happened and she evolved into a character (quite organically!) that became one of my favourites. And now, with no explanation, she's suddenly back to being Timber Wolf's 1950's gal again. Meh.
I didn't really like the Shvaughn Erin/Sean Erin reveal, but at least it was an attempt to portray a positive transgender character, which is more than 99% of other mainstream comics have ever done. I won't be too upset if Shvaughn remains Shvaughn, but I do applaud the creators for at least trying.
-------------------- Read the alternate adventures of the Legion after Legion of Three Worlds! postlo3w
Registered: Nov 2009
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quote:Originally posted by cleome: If it's anything like the interview posted on this board, I prefer to ignore anything Shooter says about the characters', uh, social lives. Seriously, the guy should've taken a cold shower before giving that interview. That was WAY more insight into his mind than I wanted, Thanks.
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