Set
There's not a word yet, for old friends who've just met.
posted
quote:Originally posted by jimgallagher: I thought the key to time travel was moving faster than light . . . ? Also, I'd think that Dawnstar's big ole floppy wings would make her less maneuverable than Superboy/girl, who basically dive through space to fly.
That would make sense, but Dawnstars wings never made any sense, because they wouldn't work in space *at all*, wings of that size couldn't lift a human sized person off the ground in earth-gravity and they would indeed wreck her maneuverability compared to any yob with a flight ring (in addition to being unable to get her any faster than terminal velocity in any event, regardless of their strength).
And yet she's been shown dodging energy blasts that move at the speed of light, so her big fluffy wings appear to be entirely cosmetic, until they get chopped off and she mysteriously can't fly anymore...
Can you tell that I always hated this character anyway? I lived on a reservation as a kid. Native American characters who wear buckskins with fringes make me cranky. Native American characters living 1000 years in the future and making a living navigating spaceships, wearing buckskins with fringes (made from space-deer?), make me irrational.
Flying at lightspeed with or without wings, being invulnerable to the ravages of deep space, etc. don't bug me nearly as much as the race-stereotyping characterization, 'cause the Legion already has a half-dozen characters that can fly at lightspeed and / or survive the ravages of deep space and ludicrous speed accelerations / deccelerations.
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
THANK YOU! I've had this argument with Greybird many times and I completely agree with you, Set. (except that I didn't grow up on a reservation. )
Besides all your excellent points, it seems to me that either the vastly over-utilized Saturn Girl, or the vastly under-utilized Dream Girl could use their powers to track anyone who needs tracking, without being limited to using their powers in space AND I'm quite certain that Legion cruisers are equipped with tracking devices as has been shown in plenty of stories anyway.
posted
I have no problem with her being hot, or her powers making sense. I just don't think her powers are useful enough to grant her Legion membership, considering there are other members that predate her that can serve the same function. Besides the aforementioned Dream Girl and Saturn Girl who could use their powers for tracking, we also already have Superboy/girl/dog/Mon-El/Ultra Boy who could use their super senses for the same purpose. AND I think she's a racist stereotype, not to mention sexist with her sensing/feeling power.
The dumbest Dawnstar use ever was in the Omega storyline. The Legion scanners pick up a being that may or may not be Omega heading their way to destroy them and Wildfire sends out Mon-El and Superboy to see if it's really him, because "he wants Dawnstar's tracking power kept in reserve til they find out if this is the real thing." What?!!!? The Legion is facing "certain doom" and he sends the 2 mightiest members off on what is potentially a wild goose chase so he can keep Dawnstar's [useless] TRACKING power in reserve? This kind of "logic" makes my head spin!
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From: Champaign, IL | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: I thought it was pretty cool that time Dawnstar put her ear to the ground and was able to tell how many villains were approaching!
Or that time they sent her into town and she got beat up!
BWAAHAHAHAAHAHA!!!
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From: Champaign, IL | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I people insist on bringing logic and facts into this, I'm taking my keyboard and going home.
From: East Toledo | Registered: Jul 2003
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Dawny's Speed was established in the "DC Heroes Role Playing game Reference - Legion of Super-Heroes Vol. 2: The World Book"
In the chapter on Starships its explained as below:
Interstellar spacecraft are all equipped with two types of motive power: an ion or impulse drive used for sub-light speed or in-system travel, and a hyperwarp drive used to attain trans-light velocities...Warp drives function by creating a field of contra-energy" around a ship that allows the vessel to step outside the bounds of normal Einsteinian physics and move at rates substantially faster than the speed of light. While in hyper-space, a vessel's position cannot be detected by ships sensors or super senses (such as Mon-El's Telescopic Vision or Dawnstar's Life Sense Power - her tracking power). The crew continues to experience the passage of time at a normal rate. Warp speeds for starships vary between a range of 41-44 APs. A comparison of average speeds for various classes of ships, and for the flight-capable Legionnaires, is show below.
posted
Why is Supergirl twice as fast as Superboy? Is she supposed to have half his bullk or something?
What does AP stand for?
-------------------- Buy my new graphic novel! http://www.dodeka12.com
From: Champaign, IL | Registered: Jul 2003
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Set
There's not a word yet, for old friends who've just met.
posted
quote:Originally posted by jimgallagher: THANK YOU! I've had this argument with Greybird many times and I completely agree with you, Set. (except that I didn't grow up on a reservation. )
[Being the only white boy in Apache Junction, the game of 'cowboys and indians' took on a sinister tone. ]
As with, IMO, far too many Legion femmes, Dawnstar has a fairly inoffensive power (I found you! Oh, now I have to fly circles around you, because I can't actually hurt you!) coupled with an extremely confrontational attitude, as if it somehow 'makes up' for the fact that she's a wimp if she acts all swaggery.
And when they partner up with Legion boys, the disparity just becomes *crazy.* Mon-El and Shady are ridiculous example number one, but Wildfire and Dawnstar are ridiculous example number two.
As with several Legion males, Wildfire had to be *toned down* from his initial appearance (see Star Boy, who used to have all of Superboy's powers *and* 'lightning vision!'). Wildfire used to have all the powers of Superboy, 'anti-energy' blasts that hit like antimatter explosions, the power to grow like Colossal Boy, etc. but then he lost his previous uniform, and apparently Brainy has never been able to duplicate it, so he's stuck only being unkillable planet-destroying anti-matter-man. Boo-hoo. Meanwhile, Dawnstar started out with winged flight, space surival and a tracking sense, and has been more recently described in text as having an 'invulnerable body' and 'great strength.' Exactly what is meant by 'invulnerable body' and 'great strength' is unknown, since she's never really been depicted with either, but Geoff Johns seems to think that she has both, making her into some sort of she-Superboy, I guess.
It's characters like Dawnstar that make me love, love, love characters like Kid Quantum 2, who weren't ethnic stereotypes, and managed to bring some pretty hefty (and unique!) power-sets to the team, regardless of their gender.
quote:Originally posted by Blockade Boy: I people insist on bringing logic and facts into this, I'm taking my keyboard and going home.
Aren't you already home?
Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Set: Dawnstar started out with winged flight, space surival and a tracking sense, and has been more recently described in text as having an 'invulnerable body' and 'great strength.' Exactly what is meant by 'invulnerable body' and 'great strength' is unknown, since she's never really been depicted with either, but Geoff Johns seems to think that she has both, making her into some sort of she-Superboy, I guess.
I've been following this conversation as it develops and now I must ask...when and where did we the reader's get some sense that Dawnstar had some sort of invulnerable body (other than the ability to not need air in space) and super strength. I was only aware of her flight, tracking, and flying through space without any sort of artifical resperation unit.
Also, I read the little chart which was taken from the DC game on how fast Legionnaires and ships travel. Is this accurate? Does Dawnstar outdo even the greatest of space crafts? She flies faster than Superboy? I've been looking for this information and haven't been able to find it. Can we get a clairifcation on this please...more details.
-------------------- I have lived for the Legion and one day I shall die for the Legion.
From: Bgztl | Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
Wasn't she shown punching through ships and things like that? Sort of like Cannonball in the MU (unless they've changed how Sam works in the 10+ years since I last read an X-Book.)
From: Douglasville, GA | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
She was shown diving through a Legion cruiser once to save Light Lass (I think it was in the "Cold and Lonely Corner of Hell" story). She came out with cuts and scrapes and said it hurt, but was relatively unharmed. I think this may be where her "invulnerability" was first depicted. I thought it was a mistake at the time to show her as semi-invulnerable, but if her body can survive the vacuum of space, she must be semi-tough.
How Light Lass survived being shoved through the ship walls is another question.
I don't really buy any info from role playing games unless it appeared in comics first.
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