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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
I am going to be rereading the 5YG Legion in preparation for my fanfic project. I will be the first to admit that I loved this era of the Legion. It was fresh and exciting, at least for me, and you really never knew what was going to happen next.

Feel free to chime in with thoughts and opinions as well.

[ January 09, 2010, 02:58 PM: Message edited by: Dev Em ]
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Issue #1, Nov '89 "5 Years Later"

The New Legion of Super Heroes, as the cover boldly pronounces. 5 Years later.

The Legion is gone. Disbanded. Fini. Sun Boy is the Earthgov Liason, Cham is running Brande Industries, Salu is in the Brig, and Rokk is stuck on Braal with his pregnant wife Lydda. Polar Boy is mentioned as someone who didn't know when to

Something happened at Venado Bay that cost Rokk his powers, and cost his friend Loomis his right arm...something that the Imskians did. Salu has a scar from that encounter that she will not let her superiors remove. She is dishonorably discharged and heads to Winath to join Ayla, and work with Garth at his plantation.

Reep "recruits" Rokk to help reform the Legion, partially by helping get Lydda off planet.

We are then shown, in word balloons that someone is being set free to "resume" their mission. We know that this is Roxxas.

One nice feature that they had were the McCauley Omnicom Text pieces. This issue shows us the debate over what caused the "89 Collapse." Showing that retroactively, Earthgov had been infiltrated even at that point. We also see that Earth President Tayla Wellington called for the disbanding of the Legion. As well as Brek Bannan's memo announcing the actual disbanding 2 years later. This also gives us the first mention of "Black Dawn", and that it cost the Legion a great deal.

We lastly get a commercial for Flight Ring Village. An apartment complex that once was Legion Headquarters.

Looking back at the things we know about where these threads lead, this was a packed issue. A lot if information is given, but there is still so much that we did not know at the time. I remember pouring over each issue looking for hints of what had happened to different characters.
 

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Posted by Sketch Lad on :
 
Rather than re-read with you, I'm going to follow your posts and see what I recall without referring to the comics.

I remember having pretty much the same reaction as you. It was fun Easter Egg hunting!
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Issue #2, Dec. 89

Okay folks, I love this issue. Loved it then, love it now. It features Ultra Boy (Jo Nah) as the main character. My favorite Legionnaire of all time. The seeds are sown here that lead to the Jo that I am so glad emerged with the first annual. That being that there is much more to him than being "Superboy with a gimmick." Page 21, where Jo goes back to get the remains of the shaving brush that Rokk had given him is a perfect example of why I love Giffen's art in this series. There is a lot said by Jo, even though there are no spoken words by him on the entire page.

We are also introduced to Kono. A great addition to the Legion cast. Smart, feisty and loyal to Jo. Also able to hold her own. The Khunds have something against Kono, so they are willing to take out Jo to get to her. That of course backfires.

We are also updated on Lydda and Loomis heading to Kathoon. We see Shvaugn for the first time, and she is under the watchful eye of Circe, The Earthgov pawn, who is sleeping with Dirk. Kinda funny that Dirk is chasing her so hard, given what happens with Shvaugn later in the series.

Roxxas is also back, and totally off his rocker. Cool.

The thing that saddened me about this issue was learning that Tinya was gone. Yes, we learn later that she was "exchanged" for the L.E.G.I.O.N. Durlan. I think that this actually did make Jo a more rounded character.

All in all a great issue.
 

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Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
 
To be quiet honest one of the best things about the FYL is that it actually gave Ultra Boy a personality.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
Same here. Starting with #2, TMK really just throw away all the bad about Jo Nah and make him one of the best Legionnaires of them all again, and I've loved him as one of my top five favorites Legionnaires (and comic book characters in general) ever since. They really build from #2 thereafter, particularly with the Legion Annual featuring him, which I think is one of the greatest Legion stories ever told.

I also loved Kono, and I love her 'psuedo-sidekick' relationship with Jo in the beginning. When I first read the TMK run I didn't really latch on to her--only on the second, third and fourth reads (yeah, like most of us I dorkishly have read the TMK run a bunch of times), I've really grown to like her. Mary Bierbaum did a bang-up job in creating her (pretty sure it was her). What works with her is the second she comes on-panel, she creates tension and a dynamic with other characters (not so much Jo but with everyone else as the series goes on). That kind of character is absolutely needed in a series.

In this issue we learn Tinya has died and it still pulls on my heart strings to reread that, including the text page at the end, which makes me a little teary-eyed. Obviously it was a set-up to introduce her in LEGION, but when you’re rereading the series and not rereading LEGION (considering how they screwed up the continuity thereafter and now its part of historical hindsight), its better to forget all that and just look at it from Jo’s perspective.

In Tom Bierbaum's blog about the TMK run, he mentions in this issue the Hotel Woodmere, spaceship/intergalactic traveling hotel on Page 12 is named after a place in Stamford, CT, where I now live. I wondered if I could ever find where that is. I always forget though when I leave the computer and I doubt I’d find it (I’m not originally from here so damned if I know my way around).

Looking forward to more of your reviews of this era, Dev. Its awesome that you’re back on LW full-time!
 

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Posted by Superboy-Supergirl on :
 
Cobalt? u didnt get affected by Nitro in Civil War did you
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Read 3 & 4 last night...hope to have them up today sometime. Great stuff. Cannot wait for issue 5, the one off issue featuring a different take on everything.
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Superboy-Supergirl:
Cobalt? u didnt get affected by Nitro in Civil War did you

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Having lived in Stamford for about 2 and 1/2 years now, I can say we could use Nitro in a portion of it to 'inspire' some remodeling of the old buildings

[ January 07, 2010, 09:25 AM: Message edited by: Cobalt Kid ]
 

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Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
 
PS - check out this thread I started way back when!
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Cobalt Kid:
Mary Bierbaum did a bang-up job in creating her (pretty sure it was her). What works with her is the second she comes on-panel, she creates tension and a dynamic with other characters (not so much Jo but with everyone else as the series goes on). That kind of character is absolutely needed in a series.

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quote:

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Originally posted by He Who Wanders:
5YL . . . people either love it or hate it.

My appreciation for what Giffen and the Bierbaums were trying to do has grown over time, but on re-reading # 1-2, I felt much the same as I felt on reading them the first time in 1989: confused as to what was happening, disappointed that even the Legionnaires I knew were unrecognizable, and frustrated that the story was moving so slowly.

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Thing is, can you imagine if they tried this story with Bendis writing it now...it's take 3 years to get Reep and Rokk to Rimbor.
 

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Posted by He Who Wanders on :
 
True. I cannot imagine any mainstream comic book writer today aspiring to something like 5YL.
 

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Posted by Blockade Boy on :
 
As part of a fandom, my big wish would be that those that simply hate this part of Legion history for what it did to a (debatably) bright and energetic youth corps, could at the least disassociate it from Legion and enjoy it for the mind-blowing story-telling it was and is.

Those that hate it for other reasons, well I guess those things happen. I'm not sure this run could ever have a redeemed face.

If there had never been a Legion before this, I think the 5YL run would have a more prominent position in comics history. It leaves so many of the other corporate big-events in the dust IMO.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Issue #5, Mar 90 - Fade to white...again.

Wow, an elseworlds issue of the Legion of Super Heroes. I remember really, really liking this issue for a couple reasons. Andrew Nolan is featured as a main character, and given the same heroic spirit that he showed in his few appearances in the Legion proper. Rond is given a major role as well. Mysa is used to effect, as is Glorith...a lot more on her in the coming issues to be sure. Surprised to see Mano in a supporting role, but it was fun to see him.

Due to Lar's destruction of the Time Trapper last issue, we are shown the unicverse as it would have been if the Legion had not been around at all. There are easter eggs all over the place in this issue, highlighting various Legionnaires and friends. The Heroes of Lallor, the Winathian clan that wields lightning, Celeste (although, we have not actually met her yet), Jacques, and Douglas. To just name a few.

Plot is pretty simple, Vidar pieces together the puzzle that Mordru himself has let loose in bits and pieces. He deduces that there is another reality that should have been. Glorith wants power, and hooks up with Vidar to get it. Ritual performed, and we fade to white for the second issue in a row.

I cannot help but thinking that this would have been a 6 month to a year story line in today's market. At least a double sized issue to be sure. It might have been fun to have a couple more issues of the "Mordruverse," but that was not meant to be (another thing that I'd love to explore in fanfic). They had a real Legion to get back to, and it wasn't even going to be one that we 100% recognized. Good or bad, this laid the groundwork for the future of the Legion for the next few years.

No text pieces this issue, as well as no letter pages.

Enjoyed the Knights of the 30 tales in the issue, and would really love to have gotten my hands on the Legion clubhouse snow globe.
 

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Posted by Blockade Boy on :
 
I think you'd get some debate as to calling this an "elseworlds" issue, at least in the sense that I understand it. I would say that these events "happened" and are a part of Legion canon.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
I'll say this. My "love" of these issues has not diminished over time. I loved them when they came out and still do.

I will admit however, there was something about reading them the first time and being pretty much surprised by something every issue. Never knowing who was going to show up next, and what shape they'd be in.

Now, there's hunting for the little things that we know to look for now. We know who people turn oput to be, and where they are going to end up, but it is still a joy to go along for the ride with a clearer idea of what is happening.

I think that the reboot after all of this really hurt at the time. But I gave it a shot and followed it through till it's own end. The reboot started out strong as well, but then floundered for what seemed like forever, then seemed to find a voice again with DnA. Whether it was a great voice or not...meh, it was at least a return to what 5YL was for me...you never knew what was going to happen next.

Next up...Introductions and Reintroductions galore.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Blockade Boy:
I think you'd get some debate as to calling this an "elseworlds" issue, at least in the sense that I understand it. I would say that these events "happened" and are a part of Legion canon.

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Very true, it is another version of the Legion that appeared for one issue...in continuity, somehow it still feels like an elseworlds type tale. Really all I meant by that.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Issue #6, Apr 90 - Welcome to their nightmare

This issue was probably better for me on first reading. Still a solid issue with a lot happening...but it feels like there is just almost too much going on at this point. Thankfully the threads start coming together soon.

And away we go...again. After the one off issue in the Mordruverse, we're back in the here and now that we know...or are we?

Dirk, at the behest of Circe and the Dominators, is recruiting Celeste to investigate and find out who let Roxxas out. Knowing that they have set it up that she will never trace it back to Earthgov...or at least, never tell if she does. So we have now met Celeste. We are also introduced to Devlin (young reporter in the Jimmy Olsen vein) and Bounty (knowing the future of this character makes it interesting to analyze some of her dialog.) This odd group heads off to Trom, sight of Roxxas' greatest "accomplishment."

The other main theme of this issue is Reep's mission to Tharn to get Mysa from Mordru. Here we see Vykros (a vampire of sorts), who was supposed to eventually join the Legion...according to Tom B. We are treated to nightmares of wach of our crew, thanks to Mordru, and provided some loose background stuff on the characters involved. Kono had some bad experiences with the SP's, Reep fought his brother to the death, Jo relives his power gain with a twist, Rokk sees things that were not there at Venado Bay, and Furball is revealed to be Brin.

We then see the groups backup...Superg--wait, I mean the Flying Buttress herself, Laurel Gand. A new retcon that worked well for me.

We also get to see Jan on Trom.

We get text pieces on Mordru's return to power on Tharn, and a retcon piece on the "conspiracy" story. This gets touched on again, but the whole focus has now shifted from the Trapper to Glorith, and from somewhen in time to Daxam.
 

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Posted by He Who Wanders on :
 
Re: Issue # 3

As narrative, this is much easier to follow than the first two issues. We do get glimpses of several Legionnaires, but there are two main events that happen in this story: Jo is recruited by Cham and Rokk, and Roxxas kills Blok.

I would love to say that the first event is truly important, but Giffen, in his usual elliptical way, tells around the story instead of telling the story directly. For example, when Jo first encounters Cham and Rokk, we don't see this encounter; we only hear it through Mordru's servant. While this technique advances the plot, it deprives us of witnessing the reunion we've waited for. As such, the emotional impact of the scene--and much of the story--is stilted.

Blok's nasty end also comes across as a tragic waste--it does nothing more than establish Roxxas as a crazy badass. And the Legion universe is already full of crazy badasses (re: Mordru).

The emotional high point of the issue for me was seeing the statues of deceased Legionnaires on Winath. Nice to know that someone still cared . . .
 

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Posted by He Who Wanders on :
 
Re: Issue # 4

And so ends the Legion universe as we knew it.

When I first read this story, I didn't fully appreciate its significance. We'd seen "final battles" with the Time Trapper before, and, in fact, "final battles" with major villains are a staple of DC and Marvel (re: Kang). After awhile, they grow tiresome.

But this truly was the final battle, and the Legion has not been the same since. If the old Legion had to end, then Giffen gave it his best shot. Rather than having the team fight en masse (as we might expect), it all comes down to Mon-El, who makes a decision that real heroes make every day: "But somehow, somewhere, somebody else will rise up and take our place." There are echoes of true heroes making sacrifices and trusting in their belief that good will ultimately win, even if they are not around to see it.

That's as meaningful as Giffen gets, and it works quite well on re-read, particularly in light of what's happened since.

Once again, though, Giffen's elliptical storytelling ruins what could have been a powerful scene: the reunion between Mon and Shady. Instead of seeing this, we read captions in abstract panels. To obfuscate the scene further, Giffen includes dialogue between the Time Trapper and Eltro Gand (though we don't know who these voices belong to until later) in the same panels. Bad enough that we don't see an emotional scene, we also have to try to figure out who else is talking. I guess Giffen isn't much for sentimentality so long as he can keep the reader guessing.

Legion # 4 was a necessary evil: necessary because DC had to go to great lengths to justify the Legion's existence without Superboy. It's a shame that the company became so obsessed with the internal workings of its universe that it ruined one of the best franchises it has ever had. But Giffen did his best to end the old Legion in style, and, in retrospect, he succeeded.

[ January 07, 2010, 09:15 PM: Message edited by: He Who Wanders ]
 

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Posted by Sketch Lad on :
 
I was largely confused by what was happening in the discussed issues. Confused yet fascinated. I'm also a fan of Giffen's art style and the 9 panel grids.

I call this comics for the advanced palette.
 

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Posted by He Who Wanders on :
 
I'll gladly confess to being a less advanced species if I can get clear storytelling out of the deal.
 

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Posted by Sketch Lad on :
 
I say it's for the advanced palette, but not perfect. There were certainly LOTS of problems. But we can point those out as we proceed.
 

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Posted by He Who Wanders on :
 
Palette, species . . . they say you are what you eat.

If there is something redeeming in Giffen's confusing narrative, I'd like to know what it is. Perhaps I've just missed it, or perhaps I need a fresh perspective.
 

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Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
 
I love, love, LOVE the 5YL Legion series! This is what got me hooked on the Legion in the first place! For all the talk about the LSH being too dense to get into, this series might have been even harder, but the drama totally drew me in and made me hunt for back issues to find out what the LEGION was all about.

Issue #2 was absolutely the best Ultra Boy story to date! He, more than Rokk, made me really feel for what was lost when the Legion disbanded.

The Mordru-verse Andrew Nolan also made me a Ferro-Lad fan for life - and he only appeared in ONE issue! Awesome stuff!
 

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Posted by He Who Wanders on :
 
I discussed issue # 5 extensively a year and a half ago in this thread.

As for # 6 . . .

As a narrative, it holds together very well. It wasn't very confusing to follow on re-read, but, of course, this has to be understood in context. Knowing how the story turned out, who Bounty was, who Laurel was, etc., makes the issue easier to follow the second time around. Giffen throws so many new characters and subplots at us that, on first read, it was very disjointed.

I'm not sure what Cham hoped to accomplish by petitioning Mordru, but the scheme fails utterly. The failure provides us with a glimpse into what Cham, Rokk, Jo, Kono, and Furball fear the most, but it also makes them look like idiots for blundering into this trap. There's also a snippet of Mysa in Mordru's harem; she is apparently "sharing" the ex-Legionnaires' mental agony at Mordru's behest.

Giffen actually provides us with snippets of stories instead of full narratives, and this makes each issue, and # 6 in particular, unsatisfying. Just when you think a scene is going somewhere, he shifts us somewhere else, and we have to start all over--a process made even more laborious by his method of starting each scene with word ballons and letting us gradually figure out who's talking.

I recall being so frustrated and confused by # 6 that it was the last issue of 5YL I bought until many years later. Now, on re-reading it, I can't help but think that Giffen was trying to turn the Legion into Watchmen: he adopts all of the stylistic conventons of that series--nine-panel grids, text pages, a dark worldview-- but he lacks an understanding of the basic narrative techniques that made Watchmen so compelling. That is, he doesn't let us get close enough to any of the characters to care about them. Instead, we're treated to one shocking scene after another. But shock and awe only go so far.

[ January 09, 2010, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: He Who Wanders ]
 

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Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
 
I guess I tend to love certain aspects of 5YL, and hate others.

I like the basic storyline that they set up in those early issues, and the basic idea of the Legion, having disbanded, coming back together because they realize that they are actually necessary to the stability of the galaxy. I like the takes on a lot of the individual characters. I generally like the density of the issues. These issues tend to have a lot more re-reading value than many other comics, as I tend to catch little details that I'd missed on previous readings.

Unfortunately, a number of things get in the way of the story. The fact that in the first twelve issues, there's at least two or three primarily devoted to retconning Legion history really sets an unhealthy trend that ends up dominating too much of the series.

In an ideal world, I would have made sure they got the "new team" together with a clearly defined membership by #12, and used the first annual to a) tell the story of the Legion's break-up/Black Dawn, etc. and b) update us on at least most of the characters who hadn't rejoined the team.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Issue #7, May, 90

Interesting issue that brings the team that much closer together. Given that the next issue is a sill in story, and the one after that I believe is one also...the story doeas begin to drag here.

Mordru "faces" off against Rokk. In an interesting choice of story telling. An image with prose running alongside. It worked well for the Rokk/Mordru Dinner/Conversation. Everything there seemed to be thought out enough that it holds up to multiple reasons, and we will learn all of the meanings behind their conversational reasonings over time.

Vykros gives a beating, and then takes a bigger one.

We get Mysa back, Rond is freed as well. The rest of the team gets free and the band is getting bigger by the issue.

Jan and the crew that went to find him are headed to Winath.

We are also given a mystery energy that seems to be tracking someone on the Trom crew from Earth.

The other thing is an ad for the Probes.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Issue #8, Jun 90 - Rond did WHAT?!?!?!?!

One of my most cherished comics...why, it's signed by the Bierbaums, Sprouse and THE Curt Swan.

The Legion origin with a twist. Actually it's more of a Who is Brande issue. Good read that gives some reasons behind the why's and wherefores to the Legion.

We also learn that the team is headed to Winath. Guess the team will be back together sooner than later. We also find out that Rond and Laurel have a baby!!! Whatever will Brainy think?

Text pieces on Brande and the Khunds view of Laurel.

Quick review this time.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Issue #9, Jul 90 - Laurels Story

Another fill in issue because, according to Tom in his blog, Keith was falling behind. A good fill in though, as it gives us some back story on Laurel...their Supergirl replacement.

We start and finish her story with a buffer of Roxxas lamenting that the Legionnaires did not go straight to Shanghalla. During the story, Laurel looses her parents. We see her cousin Eltro.

Roxxas also finds out that Earthgov has hired someone to hunt him down. Not a good thing for Earthgov. He also decides to head to Winath once he learns that's where Celeste is headed...as well as Jan.

We get an update on the Green Glowing orb that is heading towards our heroes.

Then we have Salu dreading the reunion with the other...Rokk specifically. We also see a statue of a fallen Legionnaire that has not been seen before...won't find out till later who it is.

Text pieces on Laurel, and the Khund Earth attack.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Issue #10 - Roxxas Strikes

WEll, now we're cookin. The Legion is on Winath, but so is Roxxas. Always liked this issue, even though at first read, I was a little concerned about Jo.

Nice reunion scene with Rokk and Garth. Ayla musing on the Legion.Brainy taking on trying to help Mysa, who is now watching a vidoe of her and Blok over and over.

Various other happenings...then Roxxas strikes.

Roxxas geting peeved at Mekt for not wanting to help was funny, but the beating he laid on him was brutal. Bounty goes down with Neuro toxins, Reep gets sht in the head, and Celeste gets shot and beaten to a pulp. Jo lays a beating down on Roxxas until he is dispatched.

Roxxas get sout of dodge, the Dominators are worried that he'll come after them.

The Green Glow is arriving at Winith.

And to Lash's Joy...Tenzil hits the book. He's here under a special exemption clause to get him on Earth. He's doing an Archaeologist Dig for a show. He also brings Calorie Queen and some walking Venturian Money with him. I always imagined this version of Tenzil being done by a young Bruce Campbell.

Text pieces on Blok and Mekt's mental recovery.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Issue #11, Sep 90 - Tenzil Kem takes a bite out of crime

Okay, I like this issue. Not as much as Lash, but I like it all the same. It moves some things that have been in the background along...Brek's dangling sub-plot. It's also a fun issue as well.

Before I get to Tenzil...what else happens:

We get an update from Winath.

Then from Brainy, who gives us a few hints that we know Bounty. Does not look like Celeste will make it.

Roxxas kills some Dr.'s.

Text piece on Tenzil.

And Jo is back...back in time...

As far as the Tenzil story goes...it's really all over the place, but actually has a point...to get Brek off Earth. Which Tenzil does. I hope Lash chimes in on this one...Titan Presidents of Bismoll indeed.

[ January 10, 2010, 06:14 PM: Message edited by: Dev Em ]
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester:
I guess I tend to love certain aspects of 5YL, and hate others.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester:
I like the basic storyline that they set up in those early issues, and the basic idea of the Legion, having disbanded, coming back together because they realize that they are actually necessary to the stability of the galaxy. I like the takes on a lot of the individual characters. I generally like the density of the issues. These issues tend to have a lot more re-reading value than many other comics, as I tend to catch little details that I'd missed on previous readings.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester:
Unfortunately, a number of things get in the way of the story. The fact that in the first twelve issues, there's at least two or three primarily devoted to retconning Legion history really sets an unhealthy trend that ends up dominating too much of the series.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester:
In an ideal world, I would have made sure they got the "new team" together with a clearly defined membership by #12, and used the first annual to a) tell the story of the Legion's break-up/Black Dawn, etc. and b) update us on at least most of the characters who hadn't rejoined the team.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dev Em:
Roxxas is captured. Jan really is the one that decides that letting him live is worth more to the Legion's "soul" than what he really deserved.

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quote:

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Originally posted by He Who Wanders:
Re: Mysa. I was struck by her caption on p. 11: "I dared to hope for an idyllic life as first wife to an emperor." This implies that she married Mordru of her own free will (which Mordru also implies, but he is not to be trusted). It's hard to believe that any Legionnaire would willingly marry such a villain, but this does add a bit of coloring (pun not intended) to her character. Mysa seems to have been a lost soul who became more lost after she left the Legion.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester:

quote:

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Originally posted by He Who Wanders:
Re: Mysa. I was struck by her caption on p. 11: "I dared to hope for an idyllic life as first wife to an emperor." This implies that she married Mordru of her own free will (which Mordru also implies, but he is not to be trusted). It's hard to believe that any Legionnaire would willingly marry such a villain, but this does add a bit of coloring (pun not intended) to her character. Mysa seems to have been a lost soul who became more lost after she left the Legion.

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It's important to note that a significant theme of the Baxter series had been the (apparent) rehabilitation of Mordru on Sorceror's World. It's perhaps not so crazy to believe that Mysa would be invested in believing that Mordru was now good, and indeed was what he war presenting himself as, namely the savior of the survivors of Sorceror's World.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester:
Well, the other aspect that we have to take into account is that Mordru is a master manipulater on a number of different levels. Presumably he plays along with the whole "reformed" role at first, and by the time the evidence of his continued evil surfaces, she's already married to him and he's too powerful to stop.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Set:
Because the writers fear change or growth or character development.

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quote:

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Originally posted by He Who Wanders:
It's not the writers; it's the company. Writers, for the most part, are hired hands--"work for hire," to use the legal term. Everything they do must be approved by the powers that be.

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A valid point. Many writers love nothing so more as to take an established character and add something new. But, at a certain point, that writer leaves, or fiat comes down from on high, and things start changing back to the way they were a decade ago.

One thing that's interesting is that the character's are expected to act in character, because we hold our fiction to higher standards of 'making sense' and consistency than we do people in the real world, who regularly do 'out of character' stuff that baffles us.
 

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Posted by He Who Wanders on :
 
Even when people act out of character, there's usually a reason for it. We--family, friends, general observers--may not be aware of the reason until much later, as we are usually preoccupied with our own lives or the person who is acting out of character may be adept at hiding changes that are going on within (drug abuse, for example).

But you're right, Set, that in fiction--not just comics--characters should have established personality traits and adhere to them unless something that makes sense changes those traits. Fiction is all about making sense of reality.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
I don't think that we necessarily hold fictional characters to a higher standard. I think that it comes to something HWW said...there's usually a reason for breaches of character.

If a comic character does something "off character," we as fans want to know why. We want to have it shown to us. Something to justify this change.

A perfect example would be what happened to Hal Jordan. Total breach of character. Suffering the loss of that many friends and loved ones at one time would be a "cause" for his erratic actions. This has of course all been retconned away with the Parallax entity. But it still stands to reason that even though Hal had "come to terms with it" an issue or two before, something could have easily snapped in him causing what happened.

From the Legion, you have reboot Jan going insane after spending a long time (forget exactly how long they stated it was, something like millions of years) alone. That would do something to anybody's psyche.

It does not make the next set of actions by wither character any easier to justify, but it does give a basis for what happened. After all, these characters are "only human (Tromiam)," in that 4-color world we call comics.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Issue #20, Jul 91 - Venado Bay

Not a bad issue. There's a lot of little things going on that move the plot forward. One thing I really liked, and it was really a small thing, was that Jo had an obvious tan in his scene. Nice little touch.

The Dominators are coming to Earth in force.

Dirk is being burned alive by his power and being reported dead by Earthgov.

The U.P. is trying to help...to no avail. S.P. troops are rebelling against the Dominators, and being purged. Circe takes a stand due to her troops being slaughtered.

Devlin meets someone in the "sewers."

Some hijinks involving Celeste, Kono and various other members of the Legion.

Mysa dreams of Amethyst.

Salu has a blue leg.Garth and Imra have twin girls.

Jo has fun with his "state of mind" tests after his recent bout in the past.

Rokk talks about Venado Bay with an Imskian soldier. We learn that Kent was on Braal's side during the war, and that it was Rokk that gave Salu the scar. This being the case, I totally understand her not wanting to loose it and what it means to her as a reminder of the things that had been done.

Ulu, Dag and Drura talk about the weather and "him."

"Him" of course being Tenzil.

Text pieces include Dominator battle strategy, and a piece on Venado bay by two opposing views.
 

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Posted by Superboy-Supergirl on :
 
Boy there are a lot of details with Modru that you guys need to be filled in on from that 2995 LSH Mayfair book.

Mordru had his powers restored because of the Khunds attacking socerrors world. That's when the evil in him returned.
 

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Posted by MLLASH on :
 
I would be lying if I said I just loved TMK from the get go.

I love it now but much of it was VERY frustrating to me at the time. True fascination that blossomed into unbridled passion for it began with the intro of the batch SW6 around # 25.

Of course, I love it ALL now and realize it was a masterpeice from the start but all the unending death and destruction was-- WHEW.

Then came LSH # 11.

Now THAT was freakin' funny.

Then came #14.

Now THAT was freakin' FUNNIER!

I probably owe these 2 issues a lot for re-boosting my spirits and keeping me hanging on long enough to become the big LSH lover I became. (Infectious Lass didn't show up until about 16 or so; I shudder to think I could have dropped it before she appeared again). I certainly owe them for making me a Tenzil supporter for life!
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Superboy-Supergirl:
Boy there are a lot of details with Modru that you guys need to be filled in on from that 2995 LSH Mayfair book.

Mordru had his powers restored because of the Khunds attacking socerrors world. That's when the evil in him returned.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Superboy-Supergirl:
Boy there are a lot of details with Modru that you guys need to be filled in on from that 2995 LSH Mayfair book.

Mordru had his powers restored because of the Khunds attacking socerrors world. That's when the evil in him returned.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester:
Hmm... I'd agree about the sourcebooks, but I'd consider the text features an integral part of the story.

---

This is another area where I felt Giffen adopted the stylistic conventions of Watchmen without fully understanding how they worked. If one doesn't read the text features in Watchmen, one still understands the story. For example, we learn what we need to learn about Hollis Mason's book within the story itself (e.g., the Comedian's attempted rape of Sally Jupiter, Mothman going insane, etc.). The chapters of the book printed as text features add loads of additional informaton but are not essential to understanding anything within the story. For example, we learn the fates of Dollar Bill, the Silhouette, and the possible fate of Hooded Justice in the text features, but these are, relatively speaking, minor characters who have no bearing on the "present" story of Watchmen.

With 5YL, unless I'm mistaken, the first and only place we learn about Tinya's supposed passing is in a text feature. This is a major piece of information as she was a significant part of the Legion and Jo's life.

Stories are not research papers. They should not be annotated or have appendices.
 

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Posted by He Who Wanders on :
 
Quick reviews of # 13-16.

First, #13:

Okay, so I missed the resolution of the Roxxas arc and jump back in during the middle of Kent Shakespeare's battle with the Persuader on Quarantine. The artwork and coloring of the underwater scenes made it very difficult to tell what was going on, but Kent's resolution of the battle was quite funny: using the Persuader's head to plug a hole in the auto forcefield.

I like Kent as a character, and this issue establishes him quite well. I felt sorry for Ivy when she overhears him planning to leave Quarantine to rejoin the Legion; I also felt sorry for Kent when he recalls her blistering farewell to him ("I hope you die on your first mission!").

The scenes of Jo being stranded on Khundia were quite good. I liked it that neither he nor we the readers (apparently) know that Jo is stranded in the past. That makes his confusion even more real.

Question: What color is the Khunds' skin? In various scenes during these four issues, the Khunds are shown to be yellow, somewhat lobster colored, and Caucasian. While it's understandable that their race might have more than one skin tone, it gets confusing in a book already overcrowded with aliens.

The scene between Rokk and Vi was very moving. Rokk, being the mensch that he is, actually apologized to her.

I'm not sure what to make of the "Interlude" with Glorith and the Time Trapper. Didn't we already establish that the Trapper was erased from existence and that Glorith took his place? Why was it necessary to show her killing him and taking the last of his power. She was already all-powerful in this continuity, wasn't she?

[ January 15, 2010, 06:22 PM: Message edited by: He Who Wanders ]
 

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Posted by He Who Wanders on :
 
#14:

I think Giffen's calling is humor moreso than drama, as this issue is quite funny. Tenz remains unflappable no matter what happens to him, even being sent to the Evillo's Realm of Darkness. Of course, the Realm includes "the candle that must never ever ever ever be blown out"--and we know that it will be blown out in the end.

Page 9 contains probably the best use of the nine-panel grid I've ever seen.

This issue also works in several characters from the Legion's past surprisingly well. For the most part, Giffen and crew drop long unseen characters into the book like children popping in to say "Boo!" But here, time is spent with Calorie Queen, Saturn Queen, and Sugyn to establish their personalities and give them something meaningful to do. As a result, the story flows much better than most 5YL issues have so far.

I did not understand why Brek stayed behind to tutor Evillo's daughters. Granted that they fawned over him like a celebrity and Brek (the Charlie Brown of the Legion) probably isn't used to being treated that way. Still, his decision had no set up or explanation.
 

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Posted by He Who Wanders on :
 
# 15-16:

The opening scenes of # 15 begin on a humorous note with the Legionnaires trying to fix their new headquarters on Talus; these scenes, however, do not prepare us for what lies ahead. The Khunds invade Orando and unleash a horrific new weapon: the Red Terror (shades of McCarthyism!).

The Legion make a decision to go to war and are immediately drawn into conflict with the Khunds. Several things happen on several fronts: Vi loses her leg in battle; Cham meets with a Khund spy; Furball is injured (off-panel); Chuck and Lu contemplate a possible invasion of the militia training academy on Xolnar, where they serve as inspector generals; and Lar and Tasmia show up on Talok VIII to render assistance.

Although the Legion gets into the battle too abruptly, the above scenes are choreographed very well. I must disagree with Dev's opinion that the fill-in art by Brandon Peterson is bad. Scenes such as these need clear establishing shots, a variety of page layouts, and distinctive character portrayals--all of which Peterson provides in abundance. Giffen's ususal art, confined to nine-panel grids, simply would not convey the fast-moving action and drama required.

In issue # 16, things go from bad to worse for our heroes. We can tell they're worse on the first page, as Brainy sports an eye injury. Despite a narrative that doesn't always show us important scenes such how he got the injury in the first place, Giffen and the Bierbaums effectively guide us through the battle. The tension is increased as our heroes try to figure out where the Khunds will strike next and err in thinking they will go to Talok instead of Xolnar.

The realism of these scenes become quite unnerving. I kept hoping that Chuck would use his Bouncing Boy powers, for example, and set things right. Instead, he and Lu have to give up the academy and make their stand in the pluridium mines--all the while losing some of their cadets to enemy fire. I'm not used to seeing Legionnaires in real war situations--and losing. This, I think, is 5YL at it's best: Giffen does indeed challenge our preconceptions of who the Legionnaires are and what their universe is about.

Again, I credit Peterson with rendering all of this in a style that makes every action clear, every character distinct.

Unfortunately, I'm missing # 17-18, which is a shame as I'm psyched to see what happens next.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Issues 21 - 24, Aug 91 - Dec 91 - ...the quiet darkness.

Gonna cover all these in one since it is a story arc. While somewhat interesting, I was never really taken with this arc. It felt off for some reason that I have never been able to figure out. It's not terrible or anything, and Giffens work here is pretty clear for most of it.

One highlight was the Jason Pearson art on the back up stuff. Different and unique, I do like that the SW6 has finally been revealed by the end of this.


Issue 21

We meet 2 young girls. Lori and Aria. They are on the run from someone or something. They run into some thugs looking for them, as well as Furball. Furball taked care of them but is hurt in the process.

It turns out we are on Zuun. Querl and Furball are there to run some tests on Furball. Now they are stuck on a planet under martial law.

an interlude with Kent having trouble with the food computer.

Darkseid is revealed to be running tests with Aria's father, and needs Aria for something involving the anti life equation.

Lobo shows up on the last page.The Dominators lament the loss of Batch SW6, and decide to activate Project Champion. Soon to be known as B.I.O.N. BION proceeds to kill Atmos (never really liked the character, so was not sad to see him go.

Devlin makes a comment to hint at who he is with.

Universo talks with Grinn about joining forces with Foccart.

Text piece on Dominion rules for Earth.

Issue 22

The plot plods along. Querl catches up with Furball, and we are finally told 100% that Furball is Brin. Lobo is a human wrecking ball on Zuun...plowing through the leads he has like bowlong pins.

Rokk and Cham discuss the Legion...code names and uniforms.

Kono discovers that Mysa is gone. And Nura has left 27 messages.

Dominators are counting on BION to collect the SW6 Batch.

Lar discovers that there may be clones of the Legion out there...and they me be "us."

Tasmia's Journal and an SP report make up the text pieces.

Jo Kent and Celeste make it to Zuun. Beat up some "interference, and Celeste glows Green and turns transparent. Lobo gets Aria and beats the snot out of Brainy and Furball.

Jo and Kent end up in their old Unifornm tops. Cool to see the Ultra Boy logo again.

Some minor updates on the Underground Jacques has, Circi meets with Bounty and Laurel.

Devlin is getting really ill, and we see Vi's face for the first time.

Lar leaves Shady to deal with what he found out last issue.

Disaster Repercussion Studa and a SP blotter on Sussa appear as text pieces.

Issue 24

The Life Equation Matrix (The Gemini Matrix) is completed. Darkseid changes Brin back to normal...and it will kill him.

Aria changes.

Darkseid is dispatched (I think, not sure.)

BION goes after SW6, but ends up confronting Laurel.

The SW6 reveal themselves to Devlin.

Querl's journal on what has happened and BION's Dominator directives are the text pieces for this one.
 

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Posted by MLLASH on :
 
Quiet Darkness... TMK's "Legion on the Run"/"Space Circus"/"Emerald Vi"/"Dream Crime"...
 

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Posted by Stealth on :
 
Quiet Darkness was the storyline running through Legion when I first started buying DC comics. It was not an ideal jumping-on point for new readers, to say the least. L.E.G.I.O.N. was much more accessible, and packed with more straightforward space opera thrills, so I focused on that book instead.

But it wasn't until a few issues later that I gave up on the Legion altogether. I'll reveal the reason (some LWers already know what it is) when we reach that point in Dev's chronology.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Annual #2, 1991 - The Legend of Valor

Was never really taken with this issue. It seemed a necessary tale to tell given that Valor(Lar) was now in need of a new history.

This is his story of how he stopped a second invasion of Earth and seeded a lot of worlds that end up in the U.P.

The art is better here from Peterson. The story flows alright, especially since it has a lot of dialog and story to it.

HWW: I thought Peterson's layouts were alright even from the Khund war issues...I just did not like his line work there. Not sure if it was him or the inker.

Not much else to say about this issue really. Way to in depth to go into fully. Not enough time to summarize every little thing that happens.
 

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Posted by He Who Wanders on :
 
I have also extensively reviewed Annual 2 here.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Great review HWW. I agree with just about everything you said.
 

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Posted by He Who Wanders on :
 
Thanks, Dev.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Issue #25, Jan 92 - Legionnaires Ho!

This is where the book really takes off for me. Not that everything is perfect, or that I even love everything that they (Tom/Mary/Keith) do from here on out. It's just that the SW6 Legion is fully introduced here. The Terra Mosiac begins next issue, and some of the best rethinking of characters is really about to hit. Funky but good art by Dusty Abell in this issue as well.

Devlin finally sees the entire SW6 Legion for the first time and they bring him up to speed on what has happened to him since they awoke from their pods. Naked.

They are discovered by the Dominators, and with the help of Devlin, work out a way to get to the Underground resistance.

Devlin develops his Reflecto power in this issue, much to the dismay of one of the Dominators.

Matter Eater Lad is a joy in this issue and has all of the best lines. My favorite being this exchange:

Invisible Kid - "Legionnaires? Maybe. Or people claiming to be Legionnaires. We've been impersonated before."

MEL - “It doesn’t take much, really, a few colorful costumes, an upside-down rocket ship…”

Vi's journal is the text piece.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Issue #26, Feb 92 - The Terra Mosaic

I loved this issue. Still do. It turned the Subs into characters that needed to be taken seriously for once. Also Jason Pearson takes over the art chores here.

Two main stories in this issue...the fight and the Weisenger Chamber attack.

Laurel and BION slug it out. Laurel takes the worst of it and eventually retreats to the HQ, thinking that she was not followed. BION follows from a very safe distance.

The SUBS (now with folding Ronn Karr action), with Grinn (who is just an interesting visual character) take the Weisinger chambers from the Dominators. Mostly thanks to Chlorophyll Kids powers, which allow him to communicate with the Dominators plant based technology. We also see some Tech from another Legion...

Also in this issue: Kono and Brin have a talk. Rokk and Cham talk about the situation on Earth...and Laurel arrives.

We also get a two page layout of the new Legion HQ with Loomis' notes.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Issue #27, Mar 92 - Showdown

Not a bad issue here, but not much besides the wrap up of the BION story happens...the rest of it is kind of in a holding pattern.

BION shows up at Legion HW and mayhem ensues. Rokk, Loomis and Kono play the big role in stopping him using their heads, and in Kono's case...powers. Nicely handled overall.

The only real thing that happens with the Subs is they discover the pods. We discover that the Dominators have people in the pods that they are experimenting on and that these have not been mindwiped yet.

We also see that Sussa is now a thief.

Text pieces on Spider Girl (Sussa) round out the issue. One is "by" Dvron.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Issue #28, Apr 92 - Sun Boy Setting

I'm of two minds of this issue, and this plot-line as well.

This issue is beautifully drawn by Jason Pearson, and I do not think for a minute that it would have worked as well if anyone else had drawn it. He twists images as needed during Dirks mental torture here. The floating mouths are creepy. The transition images, revealed at the end to be Dirk himself screaming a disturbing...especially on multiple readings.

We do learn a little bit of info on the 5 year gap, albeit Dirks view of what happened, but it does start to fill in some blanks.

The descent of Dirk from "horny" hero to Dominator puppet, through some manipulation by Circe dressing up as all of his old female teammates is disturbing. No two ways about it. Throw in a little retconn shenanigans by dear old dad and you have your "justifications" if you will.

Obviously Dirk was taken by being wanted and got in way over his head until it was too late. Tom says this in his blog about this issue..."Dirk is really down on his luck when he’s seduced by Circe into accepting a Faustian bargain — a life of wealth and hedonism in exchange for his services as a front man for Earthgov. The lies he’s forced to tell become increasingly egregious, until finally his spirit is broken when he has to justify the executions of Dawn and Don Allen."

One thing that also gets me is what is yet to happen between Circe and Dirk. More on that when it happens.

I don't love this issue, and I do not hate it.

The subs find out it is him at the end of the issue, and are shocked that he's still alive.

Interestingly enough there are no text pieces in this issue. Maybe due to the topic itself.
 

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Posted by He Who Wanders on :
 
My thoughts on # 19 and 20.

A lot happens in these issues, and Giffen cuts new readers no slack. If you haven't been keeping up with the series (or if you've missed a couple of issues), you're totally lost. Only the short recaps on the letters pages and Dev's own reviews in this thread helped me make sense of much of these two issues.

Number 19 begins with earth in chaos. The moon has been destroyed, and the fallout causes widespread devastation and millions of deaths. Much of this is well presented for what it is, but I couldn't help feeling this wasn't the Legion's book anymore. It seems to have been taken over by events beyond the scope of their activities. Unless I've missed somebody, no Legionnaires even appear for the first 10 pages.

The rest of the book is devoted to Ultra Boy's sojourn to earth in the distant past. I agree with Dev that this arc does flesh out Jo's character, though, as I was reading it, I kept wondering where the arc was going. We have a plotline with Nabu (who, as longtime DC fans know, is the source of Dr. Fate's mystical helmet) and a character named Marta, with whom I'm unfamiliar and who seems to have no role in the story other than to announce Jo's arrival on earth. Then Jo falls in love with a woman who, unbeknownst to him, is a Lord of Chaos.

Accepting his fate of being stranded in the past, Jo builds a life with her and she gets pregnant (or so she says)--only for Jo to watch her cut down before his eyes by Nabu, who doesn't bother to explain things to Jo! If Jo wasn't ready for the loony bin before, he should be now.

However, it's all a setup so Nabu can magically send Jo back to the future. My, how convenient that Jo ran into a "good" wizard instead of a bad one!

At least Jo does come to a personal understanding, which culminates in him allowing himself to cry over Tinya. That alone salvages the most bizarre and unlikely arc Giffen and crew have thrown at us yet.
 

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Posted by He Who Wanders on :
 
# 20:

With earth falling apart, the Legionnaires occupy their time with trivial (though somewhat funny) matters. While there were some great character moments in this issue, I couldn't help feeling that it marked time. Giffen seems to be more enraptured by the Dominators, or at least in advancing their plot, than by the Legionnaires.

I also didn't undertand the Celeste scene on Page 8. She addresses a woman she calls "Laurel," but if this is Laurel Gand, why does she look like Celeste (which even Celeste acknowledges). In a previous issue, we saw Laurel disguise herself as a Khundish slave woman. If Laurel is employing a disguise here, as well, Giffen doesn't bother to tell us so or why.

A huge chunk of the issue is devoted to Rokk's flashback of Venado Bay. Much of this we already know, although a couple of interesting details are added. One is Kent Shakespeare's involvement in the war. The other is the revelation that Rokk gave Vi her scar, though he apparently remains unaware of doing so. While this helps us understand why Vi refuses to have the scar removed, I'm not sure why it was necessary to devote so much of the issue to the flashback.

Giffen makes a lot of really drastic changes to the Legion's universe in these issues--the destruction of the moon, the Dominators' control of earth, Dirk Morgna's fate, etc. I honestly have no problem with any of these events--in fact, I applaud Giffen and crew for taking such gutsy chances. However, Giffen's obscure storytelling style once again gets in the way of story clarity.

Example 1: I did not know that the character on Page 6 was Devlin O'Ryan until I read Dev-Em's review on this thread. There's a reason why comics editors used to require writers to mention each character's name at some point in the story.

Example 2: Enough with the Dominators' dialogue, already! The repeated "r"'s I can take, but the overuse of "ah" makes it sound as if the Dominators don't know Interlac (or whatever language they're speaking) well enough to comminicate with each other. Such dialogue makes the scenes a chore to get through.

Example 3: I'm confused about Circe's role. I understand that she works with the Dominators and was Dirk's lover/boss, but she also is in command of troops? Not only that, but she cares enough about the troops being slaughtered that she turns on the Dominators? I don't have a grasp of her character at all.

Overall, I feel that both of these issues were not as good as they could have been, which is a shame considering the enormity of the events that occur within them.

[ January 17, 2010, 06:37 PM: Message edited by: He Who Wanders ]
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Issue #29, May 92 - Sade (and not the singer)

A lot of little things happen this issue. Some of which actually move the plot along. A good issue overall.

Rond tries to talk to Querl, but is blown off. Then gets advice from Brin.

Lar tells Reep what he found out about the SW6er's...although they do not know they are out and about yet. Also brings up the "they could be us" thing. Nice playful Jo and Lar reunion. Brings out the "jock"aspect of their friendship.

The Dominators attack the Chamber and get a read that the Subs are in there.

A relatively pointless page with Jacques, Tenzil and Drura. Outside of Tenzil cracking a few jokes...not sure why this is even here.

Grinn opens a pod and oput pops Sade...literally. She can teleport. Grinn also sounds like a demented Yoda here. Staq convinces Sade to work with them. Color Kid (cannot remember his name at the moment) tries, but fails to cut off Dirks life support.

Devlin convinces the Legionnaires, specifically Saturn Girl, to read Universo's mind. They find out the Dark Circle is involved. The Legionnaires have no idea how powerful the Circle is...

President Tayla Wellington goes on a broadcast and looses it to a moment of clear conscious. It costs her her life on live TV.

Brainiac 5 and Vi's journals give us our text pieces.

Oh yeah...the Dominators put together their own Fantastic Four.
 

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Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
 
Ulu.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Issue #30, Jun 92 - Ambush! ---or, The FF attack

This is a good issue that moves several plots along quite nicely. I like the way that the Subs are portrayed here.

The UP decides to move against the Dominators with the death of the President of Earth. The Dominators twist the situation for their own ends.

Lar volunteers to go to Earth to help.

The Legionnaires find "evidence" that the Dark Circle is trying to get them and decide to strike out on their own...to Devlins dismay.

Valor leaves to try to contact the UP.

The Faux Fantastic Four attack the Subs. They are beaten in a well thought out and rendered battle with the Subs and Sade.

Circe and Bounty are sneaking into Pinnacle Command as well.

Newspaper feature in front and back of issue replaces any text pieces.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sarcasm Kid:
Ulu.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dev Em:
Issue #28, Apr 92 - Sun Boy Setting
I don't love this issue, and I do not hate it.

---

I both love and hate it! Or at least admire and hate it. I agree with your comments about the art and the intricacies of the characterization. I think the mood is set terrifically and everything that happens follows in horrific inevitability.

It's an issue that prompted a visceral reaction, at least for me. Maybe that's just because Dirk's one of my favorite characters? Though it fits in perfectly with the reality of the 5YL universe following the Mon-el/Time Trapper punch and the Glorith replacements, I can't reconcile this Dirk with the Sun Boy I read previously.

I found Tom Bierbaum's comments on his blog regarding this issue pretty illuminating. I was kind of glad that he had mixed feelings about it.

I think it a strong piece of work, can't deny that.

I'm enjoying your comments, Dev! I'm sure it's caused several LWers to dig out their old issues and reread them-- I think I'll do that soon. If only they were available in trade paperback...
 

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Posted by He Who Wanders on :
 
My thoughts on # 21-24:

This is the first time I've read "The Quiet Darkness" in one setting. Previously, I read the issues piecemeal and out of order, and they made no sense whatsoever. Taken together, they are actually quite good.

Could it be that fans' dissatisfaction with this story is that it doesn't top or even equal "The Great Darkness"? I don't think it was intended to do either, and, if accepted on its own terms, I think the story is brilliant.

For one thing, the dialogue between Aria and Lori seems authentic. They act like 12-year-old girls. In spite of being thrown for a loop about who these characters were and why I should care about them, I found myself caring quite a bit once they encountered Furball (Legion frame of reference) and ran for their lives. Yes, it's shameful manipulation to have the girls buddy up with "Frisky," but it works.

I like it that Al Gordon (credited as the primary writer) doesn't tell us up front what is happening or what Darkseid is up to--Gordon lets the story unfold at its own pace--but, by the end, everything makes sense.

Well, almost everything. We're left to wonder what happened to Darkseid and Aria's brother, Coda. Did they become part of Aria or did they die and go to "heaven"? I like to think the latter. It seems that it was Darkseid's plan all along to create a half-god who could kill him and end his eternal life of boredom. I have no problem with this whatsoever: It rounds out Darkseid's character and makes him less one-dimensional as a villain. (The story actually leads up to this by having Darkseid show concern for Francis Campbell, the children's scientist father. It's true that Darkseid still uses Francis to further his own ends, yet it's striking that Darkseid treats him much better than he's treated minions in the past.)

Jo and Brainy are true to character--both exhibit intelligence and resourcefulness. Kent and Celeste develop as personalities and heroes. (We knew all along that Celeste was going to get powers; what took them so long?) I loved the action sequences, particularly between Jo and Kent and the Zuun security force. The action moves quickly but makes room for humor("Hey! . . . There isn't any Tango" . . .). Jo's grin at the bottom of page 2 of # 23 says it all: though they vastly outnumber the Legionnaires, the Zuun security force is in for a major ass whooping!

The only thing I didn't like was Lobo--a character I've never cared for--but Gordon even addresses that in a palatable manner by revealing "the main man" to be nothing more than a Darkseid-improved probe.

The backup story running in all four issues leads up to the big SW6 reveal. Again, this works better if read in one setting. The Valor sequence in # 22 does a particularly effective job of tying in the SW6 scheme with several past Legion stories.

I enjoyed this storyline as much as the earlier Khund war. It was extremely well paced, clear, and thoughtful. Like most of 5YL, it challenges our preconceptions of what a Legion story can be--i.e., there is no knock-down, drag-out fight with Darkseid--yet it delivers the goods.

[ January 17, 2010, 09:28 PM: Message edited by: He Who Wanders ]
 

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Posted by Jerry on :
 
Hooray! Positive comments about "The Quiet Darkness". I've never understood all the negativity about the story. I always thought that is was clear and subtle, original, interesting with solid art and good characterization. I must be the only person in the world who loved the use the Lobo probe.
 

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Posted by He Who Wanders on :
 
I liked Lobo better as a probe than the real Lobo.
 

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Posted by He Who Wanders on :
 
Jumping ahead, my thoughts on # 31 are presented on pages 3 and 4 of this thread.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Like I said, the quiet darkness isn't necessarily bad for me...I just never liked it all that much in the grand scheme of things. It felt jarring for the arc to be where it was. It seemed to come out of nowhere, and did not really move the main plot of the book along. Kind of the same issue I had with the Khund war/Dark circle issues before it.

They just felt off in their flow from the main narrative. But, that's just me.
 

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Posted by Stealth on :
 

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Originally posted by He Who Wanders:
Jumping ahead, my thoughts on # 31 are presented on pages 3 and 4 of this thread.

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Originally posted by Stealth:
As for Huey's assertion that at least ze was sympathetic, I have to disagree -- thanks to TMK's heavy-handed bathos, I didn't find hir sympathetic at all, or even pitiable, but repulsive! And if ze gets that kind of reaction from someone who's trans-friendly, imagine the kind of reaction ze gets from a transophobe!

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Originally posted by He Who Wanders:Sean/Shvaughn was not symptathetic? Well, your mileage may vary.

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Originally posted by He Who Wanders:I also found Sean sympathetic and even heroic in making the final decision to be true to himself. I can't understand how he would have been more acceptable to you if he had reverted to being a woman. That's not who "he" was.

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Originally posted by He Who Wanders:[qb]It's laudable that, as a transfriendly person, you care about how they are perceived in comics. However, why should we care what a transophobe thinks? Such people have already made up their minds.

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Originally posted by Stealth:

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Originally posted by He Who Wanders:Sean/Shvaughn was not symptathetic? Well, your mileage may vary.

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That is indeed the case. I found hir weak, whiny, emotionally starved, shallow, and creepy (ze was a stalker, for God's sake!)

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I'm not saying that's who ze was. I'm saying that's who I wanted hir to be.

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Originally posted by He Who Wanders:
Ah, well . . . if we could only get what we want. I wanted the Legion's original history with Superboy to remain intact. I wanted Mon-El to be called Mon-El, instead of Valor, etc.

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My, how convenient that Jo ran into a "good" wizard instead of a bad one!

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Originally posted by Jerry:
Any way, I've chimed in on the debate again. I guess I should let you all know how much I loved the Swan and Doran art again before I go. Great thread, Dev.

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I did not view her as a stalker. My read has always been, she had a teenage crush on a celebrity AND she became a woman, AND she pursued a career with the science police. In the course of her career, she met the object of her teenage crush and entered into a relationship with him. I never read it as she had a teenage crush on Element Lad SO she became a woman, then she joined the science police SO she could have a relationship with him. Like all of us, she made a series of decisions in her life for a variety of reasons. Her crush on Jan was a factor in all this, but not necessarily the only factor or most important factor.

I feel comfortable referring to Shvaughn with female pronouns. She lived the majority of her adult life as a woman by choice. If it were only because of a charade to be with Jan, it wouldn't have held up all those years. Charades just don't last that long. She was comfortable being a science police officer, a woman and being in a relationship, even a distant one without traditional strings or trappings, with Jan. The war threatened all of the things she was and the life that she had become comfortable with.

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Originally posted by Dev Em:
Very convenient indeed.

In my mind it could have been three things happening with that...Keith wanted to use Nabu in the past, they had no other way to get him back so they thought "Nabu can do it", or Editorial wanted them to tie some "known" character to the series.

Now Keith has worked on Dr. Fate in the past, so he is at least familiar with the character. Tom adds nothing about this in his blog about the issue.

The real reasons for the convenience of the return is probably lost to time...heh.

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I wasn't sure whether a Lord of Chaos qualified as a wizard or not. In any case, it's mighty convenient that Nabu sent Jo back where he belonged, don't you think?

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Originally posted by Jerry:

Missed opportunity: I wish more attention had been paid to the reactions of Gim, Garth, and Rokk to Dirk's tragic fate. These guys always seemed the closest to Dirk to me. Showing one (or all) of them dealing with his sadness would have been powerful.

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Good point. An arguable failing of 5YL is that TMK spend so much time on the "Big Story" that they lose sight of the Legionnaires' relationships. Having re-read through # 30 now, I can't think of a meaningful exchange that has occurred between the old teammates since Vi and Rokk came clean about Venado Bay.

There have been some funny scenes and some near misses (Brainy brushing Rond off over Laurel--but that doesn't really count since Laurel is a retcon). But there's little sense that these people have known each other, fought alongside each other, and cared about one another for 20 years.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Issue #32, Aug 92 - The first to fall.

This is a good issue that wraps up the Subs taking over the chamber story, and sets up a major event that will happen soon.

Things that happen within:

Reep gets info on his father, adn decides to go find him. Rokk give Reep a hard time about leaving until he realizes who he is going after.

Elia is being invaded by the Khunds, and the Dominators have a choise to make...go protect their homeworld, or stay and fight for Earth.

The Legionnaires prove that teamwork is a good thing as they devise a plan to rescue those in the chamber. Their plan works to perfection...except nobody counted on Grinn activating the self destruct mechanism. This kills Karate Kid, Princess Projectra and Chameleon Boy of the SW6 group. It also destroys the rest of the chambers, as they were all linked together.


Some thoughts/rants from me.

-There are events that are happening in the book that lead to the destruction of the Earth, and the previous destruction of the moon. The Dominators had these things in place, but in both cases, the events were triggered by others, Dev Em and Grinn to be precise. Just an observation. Were the Dominators ever going to use the things they had in place? We'll never know.

-The other thing is the obsessive hatred the Giffen has for Val (Karate Kid). There have been several interviews over the years where Giffen has publically stated his desire to kill the character...at least three times at this point. The Death of Val is his favorite Legion moment here.

He says this: "Whenever Karate Kid dies, I kind of rejoice a little. I'm nostalgic over the first time with Nemesis Kid. That was his best death. But anytime he dies is OK with me."

If you really hate a character that much, you seriously have a problem. There are characters that all of us do not like, but this is kinda odd.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Time for a mini side trip of sorts.

Timber Wolf Issues #1 - 5, Nov 92 - Mar 93

Written by Al Gordan and drawn by Joe Phillips.

Reread this for probably the first time since buying it way back when. It's not terrible, and at the same time it's not great. It's pretty average for an early 90's comic. The art is pretty good.

Brin and Aria end up back in the modern day DCU. They meet Thrust, a shape changing bad boy. It's implies that his father is Lobo...and his mother was a Durlan, I think.

They are taken in by a government agency, and Aria is promptly kidnapped due to a double agent working for the Dominators. That's right, the Dominators kidnap Aria to leech her powers into a typical 90's character.

The good guys get Aria back and she and Brin go off to have more adventure...that we never see.

He'll be back in the LSH soon enough.

Pretty average mini overall, but I liked it enough at the time, because Timber Wolf was always a fave.
 

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Posted by He Who Wanders on :
 
Re: # 32

This is an amazingly well constructed issue that delivers an important victory to the heroes—but at great cost.

The Subs and crew are rescued from the underground chambers thanks to some sleight of hand pulled off by the SW6 Legionnaries, who finally get a chance to do something besides stand around and argue with Devlin O’Ryan. Giffen, the Bierbaums, and Pearson execute this maneuver with expert precision, keeping the reader in the dark until it's over. They make effective use of the characters and their powers.

Of course, what people remember most about this issue are the deaths of three SW6 Legionnaires—Chameleon Boy, Karate Kid, and Princess Projectra. It’s a horrific moment made worse as it comes right after their impressive victory. (Well, Cham and Jeckie participated in the rescue of the Subs; it’s not clear what Val did. His apparently useless death may be another sign of Giffen’s dislike of the character.)

Very few comic book deaths have any significance beyond shock value. The demise of three Legionnaires is certainly shocking; however, much more also happens here. The three Legionnaires die as heroes, and their deaths are portrayed as realistic consequences of war. Furthermore, they are murdered because of the thoughtless actions of Grinn, who is so focused on making sure that the Dominators do not get their hands on the weapons in the chamber that he sets off the chamber’s self-destruct mechanism without considering the widspread consequences. (Not only do three Legionnaires die, but so do thousands if not millions across the world, as the Dominators’ chambers were all interconnected.)

Giffen and crew play emotional hardball with us by having so much tragedy come right after the victorious rescue of the Subs. This is good writing. Painful, but good.

There are, however, a few things in this story I don’t understand. I did not re-read # 31, as I had already reviewed it elsewhere, so I’m not sure I follow what Circe and Bounty are doing, or how they hooked up with Sussa (or why). I’m not sure what is happening on page 16: Are the giant hands Colossal Boy’s, and what is the giant globe they are holding? Is the building of Pinnacle Command shaped like a globe? (Later on, Colossal Boy says he could “deflate,” suggesting he was the globe.) These things, though mildly distracting, did not interfere with the main story.

Other nice touches: Invisible Kid questions whether or not Jacques Foccart is working with the Dark Circle—Kid, who has never met Foccart, apparently does not know that Foccart became his own successor as Invisible Kid II. Phantom Girl compliments the Subs on having “blossomed.” And, of course, there’s the hilarious opening scene with Kono, a sleeping adult Cham, and ice cream.

(Though this scene does remind me that it’s been a long time since Kono or any of the adult Legionnaires have done anything of substance in this book. Even Valor stands by alongside his younger counterpart and watches as large areas of earth are destroyed.)

The flawless execution of this issue makes it one of the highlights of 5YL for me.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Issue #33, Sep 92 - Kid Quantum

We finally learn about the statue that is in Garth's dargen. The issue is alright overall. Never minded the addition of Kid Quantum to the mythos of the Legion. There are a few things that bother me though, as well as some good stuff....

Reep is following the trail of his farther. He finds him on the Planet Yal where he is writing something...not sure what else he is doing...or has been doing since he was "killed."

The Dominators hire the Hunter to track him down. Hunter is seen hunting a probe here...not sure how that is very challenging for him, but who knows.

Reep is taken out really easy here. It would have been one thing if he had just come across his dad, but they came to this planet together. He also recovers amazingly fast. Both seem to be there to serve the plot and not much else.

Garth is also shown lamenting over what happened to the Kid.

The Proteans are given some back story here, which is nice to see. It's also suggested that James is a Protean stripped of it's shape changing and telepathy. Not sure about that though, since it's the 'legend" that is related to the reader. Wish they had been a little more clear on that end of what James was. It is clear that he is able to restore the Proteans to full sentience.

We round out the issue with them getting "hijacked" by the Emerald Eye.

We also get to see the Legionnaires run into some more chamber survivors...including Dannielle Foccart, Xao Jin Catspaw and the Crystal Kid.

There is a text piece that covers the Protean legend again. Plus a bit of history about James Cullen, Kid Quantum.
 

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Posted by He Who Wanders on :
 
Re: # 33

This issue amounts to a mildly pleasant diversion from the Dominion war. The main purpose of this story is to introduce Kid Quantum and his retconned history as an early Legionnaire. I have my doubts about inserting another character into the Legion’s past; most of the retcons so far have been intended to cover the gaping holes left by Superboy and Supergirl's removal from continuity. But what purpose does the Kid Quantum retcon serve? All it really does is distance the 5YL Legion even further from the original timeline.

The story itself is fair: a wild west adventure set on an outpost planet with Kid Q as a “wanted man,” a robot sheriff and deputy that can be bribed, an old Legion villain (Adam Orion) as a bounty hunter, and Proteans who save the day. Oh, yes, Cham finds Brande and they figure into the story, too.

As Dev noted, Cham and Brande are here mainly to serve the plot; the story could just as easily take place without them or with other characters occupying their roles. What particularly grates on me is Cham’s impulsive attack on Orion on page 13. Cham is too late to save the robot sheriff, so all he accomplishes is getting himself shot by Orion and getting Brande taken hostage. Yawn.

The Soul of Antares plotline seems like an unncessary distraction; it’s unclear why the Dominators want to possess it, or why Brande was looking for it in the first place. The revelation that the Soul is really Kid Quantum reminds me of the film “The Jewel of the Nile,” wherein the sought after “jewel” turns out to be a holy man. Again, this revelation is distracting and simply inserts another plotline into an already convoluted series.

As Dev noted, other stuff happens as well—but the introductions of Catspaw, Danielle, Xao Jin, and Crystal Kid merely set up their roles in the forthcoming Legionnaires comic.

This issue is one of the least inspired efforts of 5YL, although it is partially redeemed by David A. Williams’ expressive and moody artwork.
 

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Posted by He Who Wanders on :
 
# 34-35.

The Dominion War finally comes to an end in these issues, which explicitly show the cost of war with panels that depict the bodies of civilians and massive destruction. The horror of these scenes is only one of many emotions that Giffen and crew deftly pull as through. The heroes rejoice in their victory. Even the surrender of the Dominators’ leader is oddly moving.

Again, so many things happen on so many different fronts that it’s hard to keep track of everything. Basically, the Dominators lose for three reasons: abandonment by their homeworld, which is under attack by the Dark Circle; subterfuge by Bounty, Sussa, and Circe, who implant a virus in their computer network; and last-minute action from the youthful LSH, particularly Valor and Laurel Gand, which turns the tide of the battle.

The end of the war is well presented for the most part, although there are still some problems. The Legionnaires have spent most of the last several issues standing around, waiting for the call to action. When the call finally arrives, they deliver decisive blows against the Dominators, leading me to wonder why they didn’t act sooner. For that matter, the adult LSH never does get involved (except for brief action by Jan and pointless wisecracks by Tenz), giving the impression that the entire storyline existed for no other reason than to showcase the younger Legionnaires and prepare them for their own book.

In actuality, the Dominion War is much more complex than that. It presents a truly vivid account of what war on earth would be like from several perspectives. Resistance troops carry on the fight in different corners, battling against hopless odds. Each makes crucial contributions to victory. In this respect, the storyline succeeds admirably.

Other aspects, however, are less satisfying. A recurring theme seems to be that earth must fight its own battles. This is the reason given for the Legionnaires’ delay. (In fact, Valor pointedly tells Sade that he’s there to save souls, not the planet.) But this clichéd rationale falls flat, particularly in light of modern events. Can you imagine, for example, relief organizations standing by and claiming that Haitians must solve their own problems? It wouldn’t look very heroic, would it?

In the end, earth does not win this war. Much of the victory is due to the United Planets, other aliens, and, of course, the young Legionnaires themselves. I’m not sure what point is being made here. In interviews, Giffen has said that he had hoped to end 5YL with earth coming to realize that it needs the Legion. This is borne out by the scene of an earth man watching the Legionnaires fly by and proclaiming, “God, we’re gonna win this thing!” (# 35, page 6). All well and good, but since the Legionnaires haven’t done much, their victory is more symbolic than literal.

Perhaps that’s Giffen’s point—that the symbolism of heroes is important. If so, it still falls flat. Giffen has spent much of this book tearing down the Legion in earth’s eyes. Now, all of a sudden, they’re heroes again—and not heroes who have gone through the dark days of disbandment and discreditation and who have bounced back from their darkest days, but heroes who have spent the last 17 years sleeping.

Another, equally disturbing point seems to be that it was not the older heroes who won but the younger heroes. This message plays into the usual stereotypes about super-heroes being eternally youthful which runs counter to what 5YL has been about. What was the point in aging the Legionnaires at all if they were only going to fade into the background?

Yet perhaps I’m reading too much into it. Giffen wanted to tell an exciting story, and he did. The accomplishments of the Dominion War storyline and 5YL as a whole are considerable. Giffen and crew broke the boundaries of what could be done in a super-hero comic. They forced us to reconsider what was truly meaningful about the Legion: not the costumes, code names or even powers, but the spirit of the Legion itself.

Since this is a DC Comic, of course, no plotline can truly end without a new one beginning. We finally learn what Universo has been up to, as he launches a nefarious new scheme with Leland McCauley. Also, Dirk emerges from the debris of the Dominators’ chamber ravaged in both body and mind. In a poignant twist, he encounters his youthful counterpart who impulsively thinks he is a monster to be fought. The things older Dirk should tell younger Dirk . . . if his mind isn’t too far gone.

In one of my favorite scenes, we learn the fate of Grinn. The faceless murderer of young Val, Jeckie, and Cham gets shoved out the hatch of a ship by Sade—off-panel, no less.

The Dominion War ends as a sprawling epic—a very convoluted narrative that requires several re-readings to fully understand. For all its faults, it was both emotionally satisfying and intellectually challenging: truly a remarkable accomplishment.
 

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Posted by He Who Wanders on :
 
We never finished these reviews. Stickler that I am for completing things, I’ll offer my assessments of # 36-38 as time allows. These issues wrap up Giffen’s run. For comments on TM without K, see [URL= http://www.legionworld.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=004759;p=1][/URL].
 

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Posted by He Who Wanders on :
 
Right. On to # 36.

The cover blurb describes this issue as the “the conclusion of the Terra Mosaic epic”—but it’s really an epilogue of sorts. The Legionnaires spend a lot of time wandering around, commenting on the destruction of the war and loss of life. A few plotlines are advanced. A major revelation occurs in a ridiculously off-handed way. And Dirk Morgna’s fate comes to a tragic end.

The issue opens with Jacques complaining to Drura about being president—a responsibility he never wanted. Then we move to a scene of the SW6 Invisible Kid coming to terms with the deaths of three of his teammates. A nice theme is established here, as neither Invisible Kid wanted the responsibility of command and the moral burden of sending people to die. Death, as we shall see, plays a major part in this story.

Next, Circe and Bounty argue over what to do with Dirk, and—after Cosmic Boy interrupts their feud—Bounty stalks off with what appears to be another voice in her head. Jason Pearson drew this issue over Giffen’s breakdowns and, at times, the return of the latter’s obscure imagery proves distracting. The shot of Bounty with her eyes shadowed (page 5, panel 3) made me think she was being stalked by Vrykos, the faceless energy vampire from the Mordru arc. On the other hand, the image of Circe crying at the bottom of the same page—with her shadow forming a tombstone behind her—makes effective and haunting use of foreshadowing.

So goes the art throughout this story. Some panels are dreadful (manga-eyed Triplicate Girl on page 3); others are masterful (the contrast between young Dirk and his older, disfigured counterpart on page 6).

Young Sun Boy experiences a heartbreaking moment with his older self. Young Brainiac 5 and older Brainiac 5 ponder the intellectual possibilities of either team being clones. Young Light Lass pays the older Valor a compliment. (And, later, the older Ayla tells Kent it doesn’t matter to her if she’s a clone or not.) Such character moments are a welcome relief from the heavy action of the past several issues.

However, obligatory action is provided courtesy of Bounty, who recognizes Sade as a fugitive with a billion-credit bounty on her head. Their fight scene is well paced, if bloody, and ends with the Bounty entity leaving its badly wounded host body—which turns out to belong to (ta da!) Dawnstar.

I’ve said all along that I don’t have a problem with most of the drastic revelations of 5YL—Dirk, Proty-Garth, Shvaughn/Sean, et al.—so long as they resulted in good stories. For the most part, I also don’t have a problem with Dawnstar being de-winged and turned into a host for some mysterious entity. What I do have a problem with is how matter-of-factly this revelation was dropped into the story and how little thought seems to have been put into it. There was no setup—or if there was, I completely missed it while re-reading the previous issues. So little attention was paid to Bounty since her introduction that she seemed to be just another supporting character, like Circe, Celeste, etc. She helped round out the 5YL milieu but showed little importance as a character herself. Thus, the sudden revelation that she has been a longtime fan favorite Legionnaire all along comes out of nowhere and adds nothing to the story except shock value.

What makes this scene truly unforgivable is the admission of older Brainiac 5 that he knew Bounty’s identity all along yet he lacked the “sense to intervene.” Shouldn’t Brainy have been the least little bit curious as to what happened to his former teammates’ wings and personality? Didn’t it occur to him that she might not be acting of her own free will?

And even Rokk excuses Brainy’s inaction by saying that they had all picked up on the similarity. Excuse me? Even if Rokk had no previous reason to believe that the similarities between Dawny and Bounty were anything other than coincidence, how can he now dismiss Brainy’s depraved indifference?

The cavalier attitudes of these two Legionnaires remind me of the deservedly maligned Avengers # 200, in which Ms. Marvel was forced to give birth to her own rapist and then returned to live with him in limbo. None of the Avengers considered the possibility that she was still being manipulated by said rapist. The issue—and its asinine assumptions about women—has always stood out as a black mark on Marvel. The handling of Bounty does the same thing for DC.

Wanna make it even worse? Now that they know the truth, Rokk and Brainy don’t seem the least bit concerned about how Dawny ended up this way. Their scene is interrupted by Rokk playing with his child, then Brainy suggests only that Dawny be “debriefed” once she’s out of danger—to which Rokk responds, “What do you think we could learn from her that’s so urgent?” Yes, never mind the fact that she’s an old teammate who will need support from her friends. All that matters is what WE can get from her. Good going, Rokk and Brainy. Good going, TMK.

That scene ruins the issue for me—which is a shame as the issue also contains the most powerful sequence in the entire run of TMK. It begins as young Sun Boy stares at his graffiti-covered statue. Cosmic Boy consoles him by telling him that he can avoid the mistakes made by his older counterpart. Then there is a closeup of the statue’s face, followed in the next panel by a closeup of the skeletal older Dirk—with a bullet hole between his eyes. On the next page, Circe—who loved Dirk so much that she put him out of his misery—puts a bullet into her own head, as well.

Paradoxically, # 36 combines both the best and the worst of TMK. Even this late in Giffen’s run, they were still finding ways to move us and get us talking.

[ February 16, 2010, 08:28 PM: Message edited by: He Who Wanders ]
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
I'll be back on this shortly.
 

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Posted by He Who Wanders on :
 
# 37

This issue falls into the realm of “Why not?” Why not make Thom (Star Boy) Kallor the manager of a baseball team? Why not make former sexpot Nura (Dream Girl) Nal an overweight high seer of Naltor? Why not have a villain (Starfinger III) conspire to fix the game?

This issue harkens back to the ‘60s and ‘70s, when comic books could be fun just for the sake of it. Remember the all-baseball issue of one of those DC anthologies? Remember the gorillas that seemed to be everywhere in the DCU? Remember when Superman took on football players who threw footballs that created an energy barrier? For all the brouhaha about comic books “growing up” (which some misinterpreted to mean becoming all doom and gloom), this fun aspect was always part of what made comics so appealing to kids of all ages.

That isn’t to say that there are no stakes involved here—there are. Thom learns too late that one of his star hitters—a gorilla-like being who must wear a “handicapper belt”—has been given a tampered belt that goes off at a key moment, allowing him to literally slam one out of the park and win the championship. Does Thom allow his team to accept a victory they didn’t earn? He’s a former Legionnaire—what do you think?

Although the story isn’t significant, it is well told. The Bierbaums ably set Thom up as a “bear scout”—Nura found him boring, as does his own wife (the owner of Thom’s team, the Dreamers). Thom is a good sod who cares about his players but can’t say no to them. He even allows one pitcher to play with an injured arm. Yet he also believes that “batball” players are role models. (Ironic, isn’t it, that Thom has gone from being a super-hero to nurturing sports figures as role models? Doubly ironic in the era of tainted sports stars such as Tiger Woods.)

In short, Thom is a milquetoast who has to make a very difficult decision once he learns the game is fixed. But he makes the right choice and risks everything—the championship, perhaps even his job—to make his team earn their victory. To his credit and theirs, they do.

If only real life worked this way.

But then comics have never been about portraying real life. They have been about many things; at their best (and the Legion typifies this), they show us possibilities.

The portrayal of Nura is less convincing, but she’s mainly a bit player here. She comes off as a madam with a ridiculous hairstyle, gigolo aides, and uncharacteristically crude dialogue (“. . . pretty damned thrilled to see you again, Thom”). Nothing remains of the smart and sexy Dream Girl who embodied the paradox of leading the Legion while worrying over a broken fingernail.

The Bierbaums are superbly assisted by penciller June Brigman and inker John Dell, who mostly abandon the nine-panel grid for more conventional (e.g., varied) panel layouts.

A few other plotlines are also introduced. Imra gets “zapped” by an intruder while putting her new twins to bed. The SW6 Valor takes off in a time bubble for 2278 to see if it’s feasible for the other young Legionnaires to return to their own time. (I believe I’m correct in assuming he never returns; this scene sets up both his own Valor comic and the Valor-less Legionnaires title.). The adult Brainiac 5 goes to earth on a mysterious mission.

Keith Giffen, in one of his periodic snits with DC, is nowhere to be found among the credits of this issue. He will return next issue to say goodbye for good with one of the most controversial finales ever.
 

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Posted by He Who Wanders on :
 
I was going to post a review of # 38, but interest in this topic seems to have declined. Here, instead, is a link to page nine of this thread, in which the destruction of earth and related 5YL matters are discussed.
 

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Posted by Superboy-Supergirl on :
 
nah i'm sure people still love going back and reviewing the 5 year gap..hell we need some resolution keep going.
 

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Posted by Jerry on :
 
Don't stop. I've been a bit busy for lengthy comments but I'm definitely reading each post. #38 is a unique comic. I want a full length He Who Wanders review and Dev Em insights !!

[ February 24, 2010, 07:44 PM: Message edited by: Jerry ]
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
I had a few weeks of big studying for a test and some sick kids, so not as much time to read.

I'll be picking up again this coming week hopefully. There's still a lot of cool stuff to come, and some real bleh stuff.
 

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Posted by He Who Wanders on :
 
I knew everyone was probably busy with other things, but lack of feedback does make me wonder if anybody still cares. (What can I say? I'm a spoiled writer! )

Thanks for letting me know that people are still reading.
 

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Posted by He Who Wanders on :
 
# 38.

How does one separate the legend of Giffen’s swan song from the reality? How does one give it a fair review after all this time?

Few issues in Legion history have polarized fans as much as # 38: fans either love the poignant depiction of earth’s destruction or they deride it as an ill-conceived move that drove the final nail the coffin of the pre-boot LSH. While reviewing the comments on the above thread to which I linked, I discovered that fans who already liked 5YL tend to fall in the former camp while those who disliked it fall in the latter. Probably no review is going to sway either side or provide fresh insights, but here goes a try.

My initial reaction upon re-reading this issue reminded me of my first reaction back when: I dislike the method of telling stories with only one large panel per page. This method, which I believe was popularized by “The Death of Superman” story back in 1992 (the same year that # 38 was published), is sometimes used for stories of great magnitude (or at least stories meant to capture media attention)—as if the very large panels and prose text on the side somehow legitimize the story. The creators seem to be telling us that this story transcends ordinary super-hero fare and approaches Literature (with a capital L). This story is Important. You need to pay attention.

However, I always feel as if I’m being cheated by the absence of artistic story telling in such comics. I read comics for slightly different reasons than I read prose novels. The synergy between art and writing creates a unique form of story telling that no other medium —not even films—can match. Much of the story in comics happens in the reader’s mind, which is guided along by sequential images; that is, the reader has to work to understand the story more than films typically allow while enjoying the benefits of a visual medium not available in prose. Stripping a story down to one panel per page destroys the uniqueness of comics story telling by subordinating the art to the text instead of relying on their collaborative qualities. Such comics look to me like little more than sophisticated picture books for children.

This is true even of # 38, although the images are beautifully rendered and the text is well paced and moving (particularly Devlin’s commentary on page 1 about life being fair until our actions make it unfair). Once again, the biggest flaw of this story—which was also the biggest flaw of “Terra Mosaic”—is that the stars of this comic, the Legion of Super-Heroes, are virtually absent, dwarfed by events beyond the scope of their abilities to influence. Sure, both Brainiac 5s are present to announce earth’s imminent destruction and explain the causes (though their explanation comes in the form of Devlin’s summary rather than in their own words), but, otherwise, we’re treated to a single panel each of a few SW6 Legionnaires and a few members of the older team mourning earth’s destruction. (To be complete, we also get a panel of Jacques weighing a heavy decision while Troy looks on, and two panels of Devlin writing the text and then mourning.) Most of the images depict the destruction of earth cities, the preparations for evacation, the survival of domed cities blasting off from earth and linking up in space, and the transportation of those cities into the Buffer Region. When people appear in the story at all, they are in the form of huddled masses watching the events on viewscreens or doomed masses left behind to accept their fate.

Again, such images are beautifully rendered, and most are filled with emotion. However, I can’t help feeling distanced from the story—as if I’m watching it from afar instead of experiencing it. Giffen and crew strive to overcome this distance by using Devlin as our viewpoint character—everything happens through his eyes as he writes an account of earth’s destruction. But therein lies another flaw: We are being told this story instead of being shown it. (Rule No. 1 of story telling: Show, don’t tell.) By depriving us of other characters’ reactions—the denial, the fear, the false hope, the panic, the final acceptance—Giffen and crew have also deprived us from partaking of this journey ourselves. Instead, we have someone interpret it for us, and that’s not the same experience.

(One sterling example of a missed opportunity: We are told that “thousands of onlookers” refused to evacuate their homes when the ancient domes were activated to cover the cities. Those onlookers were “crushed.” We could have gotten to know one such person and come to understand why he or she had chosen to die in this manner.)

As with most of 5YL, I don’t have a problem with the destruction of the earth itself. It was a bold move that (all things considered) was well handled. For example, Giffen and crew wisely chose to tell the story in one issue rather than having it play out for months. The sudden destruction of earth reminds us of our own mortality and how our lives can change irrevocably in one instant. It also reminds us that such changes can occur because of decades and even centuries of irresponsible choices. The decisions we make today—as individuals and as a society—affect not only us but everyone around us, even our descendents far into the future.

In The Legion Companion, Giffen admits that he destroyed earth as a “temper tantrum”—a parting shot at DC, whose editorial interference and lack of support undermined the story he wished to tell. While this comment sounds childish and appears not to take into consideration the burden the destruction of earth might place upon his successors (the Bierbaums), it is to Giffen’s credit that the story is well thought out, purposeful, and significant. In spite of the drawbacks of telling the story with only one panel per page, these qualities still shine.

[ February 25, 2010, 01:45 PM: Message edited by: He Who Wanders ]
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Issue # 34, Oct 92 -

While a lot happens this issue, it feels kind of flat to me. There are so many balls in the air here that need to be wrapped up and/or advanced. While they touch on a lot of them...the whole of the story is kind of disappointing.

McCauley is a slime, and will help the Earth for a price.

Vidar ends his Dark Circle alliance.

Bounty, Circe and Sussa spend use up three pages to plant a computer virus.

Laurel and Rokk are recovering.

Sean is helping the SP's and the resistance fight the Dominators. I find it a bit odd that nobody seems the slightest bit interested that Shvaugn.Sean just changed genders. Ah well.

Sade killed Grinn...and gives Lar a verbal smackdown with one sentence. Even though he is right in his thoughts. Jan makes the same comments later about not saving the planet himself and allowing Earth to stand again on it's own...while helping as needed.

Pinnacle Command is captured.

The most disturbing thing in the issue is Dirk breaking out of his pod...clearly deluded.

Text pieces give us a letter from King John to the Legion.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Issue #35, Early Nov 92 - Sun Boy meets Sun Boy (Plus the Legion is now Bi-weekly)

A good issue that essentially wraps up the Terra Mosiac, even though next issue proclaims it is the conclusion to the story. There are good things about this issue, as well as some "it's about time" moments.

The thrust of the issue is the battle for Earth, which in one of those "it's about time" moments, the Legionnaires and Legion actually help out. Why they were not put in play previously is beyond me, but ah well. There ae some great moments here, as well as some gut wrenching ones.Watching Colossal Boy and Ultra Boy take out Dominators was great. Watching humans get mowed down like grass in a field...not so much. It does illustrate the horrors of was and what an oppressive regime will do to try to retain it's power.

Jacques is named President of Earth...he's come a long way since his intro as a scared big brother trying to help save his sister.

Dirk is found, and attacked, by his younger counterpart and friends.

This issue wraps up a lot of story lines that have been plodding along, and next issue takes care of several more.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Issue #36, Late Nov 92 - Bounty vs. Sade

An overall great issue that really can get to you. Wraps up a lot in one issue.

Main thrust of the issue is two fold. Resolutions to Dirk's situation, as well as who Bounty really is and why she's been acting this way.

The whole dirk/Circe arc comes to a close here in a way that I did not see coming back when I first read this issue. I think that overall, this was handled very well...as you could finally see that Circe really loved Dirk and knew that they were both beyond the help of those around them. Very touching and sad scene of their final fates.

The cover says that the battle you've been waiting for is happening in this issue. Bounty vs. Sade (never liked that name for a comic character. I always picture an atttractive singer). I was never waiting to see these two fight, and I thought the fight was a bit overdone with violence. It did bring the Bounty character to an end and brought Dawnstar back to the fold.

I, like HWW really had no issue with what was done to Dawny ove the course of this series. The wings, different attitude. There were hints dropped in previous issues though: Issue 10 had Jo questioning Jan if he didn't remind her of someone. He is cut off before he finishes and is promptly sent back in time by Roxxass. In issue 11, Brainy wonders what her game is, what she is up to. There is also mention of unexplained scar tissue.

There was setup for the reveal...but there should have been more done with it. Obviously Brainy knew but was apparently under the inpression she knew what she was doing. Jo knew, or at least had some idea before being sent on his way...and maybe he forgot about it once he got back, since I do not really remember them interacting after that point.

There does seem to be a bit of "well, so what" from Rokk and Brainy once the entity leaves her. Quite odd, but things are winding down for the TMK team at this point, so I think the characters suffered a bit while trying to wrap up as much as possible.

One other thing that bothered me was that nobody else seemed to have any clue as to who she was. I wonder back to the fact that outside of Drake, I really do not remember Dawny hanging around with anyone else very much.
 

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Posted by He Who Wanders on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Dev Em:
The thrust of the issue is the battle for Earth, which in one of those "it's about time" moments, the Legionnaires and Legion actually help out. Why they were not put in play previously is beyond me, but ah well.

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While reading through # 38, I noticed how incidental the Legionnaires seem to be to the "larger story." It's almost as if Giffen wasn't interested in them so much as he was in other things. The Dominators' leader, for example, exhibits much more personality than most of the heroes do.

Tellingly, it's after the Bierbaums take over that the focus of the book returns to the Legionnaires.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Issue 37, Early Dec 92 - Thom is back...back again.

Relatively boring issue...to me at least. After the events of the last few issues, I suppose it's a nice diversion, and I thinnk I enjoyed it much more when read initially. Not knowing what was coming in the next issue makes this one more enjoyable.

HWW sums the Thom story up aptly above a few posts.

One part I will comment on is the portrayal of Nura. I have never been a fan of Nura. But even I thought that her turning into this was a bit excessive.

Imra is taken in this issue by some unknown assailant.

Valor is sent back in time to see what happened in 2978, and if the rest of the Legionnaires should venture back there.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Issue #38, Late Dec 92 - The End

I actually liked the story as presented here. One of the things that I agree with HWW on totally is the lack of Legion involvement in the story itself. Although we do see things next issue in flashback form, there could have been more in this issue. Again, there seems to be too much story to fit in these pages...which is an interesting counter point to todays comic, where they will focus on one scene for pages at a time. Visually stunning at times, but makes for little story in some cases.

The entire Terra Mosiac, and to a certian point the entire run up to this point, seems to suffer from too many ideas and not enough space. A story of this magnitude could have easily gone on for many more issues. The Legion, Legionnaires and even the SUBS and resistance could have filled a year or two worth of stories themselves simply during the Terra Mosiac story line alone.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda. We have what we have in these comics, and the end result is actually a very stirring account of Earth fighting for itself and gaining their victory but at the ultimate cost.

Earth is gone...where do we go now.
 

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Posted by MLLASH on :
 
I do some detailed reviews and there's lots of other great comments from Legion WOrlders about the Tom and Mary issues that followed Keith's departure:


Let's talk Tom & Mary
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Very cool. Will read through that soon. Coming soon here...Legion of Super Heroes, Legionnaires and Valor (mini reviews until the plot joins our characters.)
 

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Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
 
Speaking of FYL, I just bought a bunch of those issues.

#28-31, 33-34, 42, 45
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Issue #39, Jan 93 - Beginnings

The title is "Beginnings", but a more appropriate name would have been "Wrap ups and Teases."

Overall a very solid issue that touches on what happened, and what's coming. Tom and Mary are on their own as writers, and Giffen is involved as an artist (one who uses both his regular LSH style and his "newer" (at the time) uber sketchy style.

Stuart Immonen comes on board here and knocks the art out of the park.

We are shown the things that several Legion members were doing during the destruction of the Earth. The choices they had to make and the no win situation that they found themselves in. No matter what they did, it could never be enough.

We are also shown Ayla and Salu having a touching moment...not that kind of touching...geez.

The Legionnaires are on the remnants of Earth, also known as the floating cities. MELad still is with the jokes. Obviously how he deals with his emotions...good or bad. I think we all know someone like him. That's what makes him a good character for the coming Legionnaires book.

McCauley is given a loss. Loss of several of the individuals that he had kept in stasis with the power of the Emerald Eye.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Issue #40, Feb 93 - Guess who's back? Wrong!

That was a cheap shot to the fans of Drake "Wildfire" Burroughs. Using a never before seen brother that was given the exact same powers as Drake to fake out the fans...low blow.

The issue itself is very solid and finally gets the Legion and Legionnaires together. Which leads to one of the most touching and heart wrenching scenes in this series.

Jacques brushes off duties that he never wanted, and that were thrust on him to find his sister. He tells Troy to deal, as he is the VP. Troy has come a long way from the angry young man he was when introduced.

The Subs, and Universo, get some admiration.

One of the prisoners from the mind-wiped super powered prisoners of the Dominators stages a small break and causes some mayhem. Some fun who's who with the characters involved.

The reunion/meeting of the two Legion groups is well done with great little one offs of conversations happening. The most prominent of these meetings is of course Jo meeting up with Ultra Boy and Phantom Girl. After trying to avoid them, he runs into Ultra Boy in the restroom...at least I think it was. In trying to get away from him he runs smack into Phantom Girl...the one he truly was trying to avoid. He then takes off, literally and floats in a ship outside the Floatilla and rereads Tinya's last note to him before she "died." The young Legionnaires realize what they have done to him too late. You can tell that Tom and Mary had a very big heart for Jo, and developed him more in their relatively short run than any combo of writers had done in the entire history oif the character until this time.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Valor #1, Nov 92 Endgame

This issue follows the Eclipso event that happened in late 1992.

Bearded Luthor (Jr. - heh) is having Lar analyzed after his possession by Eclipso. Lotsa background info here on Lar, but in hindsight it's all pointless because Lar (Mon El, Valor, Supes wannabe) has been introduced so many times into the Superman mythos it's kinda dumb.

Not a terrible issue, but nothing to write praises over either.

The art by Bright is fine. He has a definite style to his stuff (loved him on Quantum and Woody!) that I like.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Valor #2, Dec 92 - Boy meets Supergirl

They meet again for the first time...although this is neither the Supergirl from Legion past...or Lar from their past either...so wait...huh. Never mind.

The meet, they fight, she shape shifts into Luthor to get Lar where Lex wants him. This issue shows a Supergirl (matrix from the pocket universe) that is in love with Luthor. Hated this point in her story...Well honestly, I liked hewr intro into the Superman story and what Peter David did with her. The rest...not so much.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Note here. Doing the Valor stuff, like I did the Timber Wolf issues, to remain as consistent to the time period in which this all happened.

The Valor series becomes important later on in the run, and ties in directly to the main LSH and Legionnaires series.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Issue #41, Mar 93 - Introducing the Legionnaires

Very well done issue. Moves things along nicely. Sets up some new status quo. Gives hope to the darker future that we have seen since this book restarted "5 years later."

Art chores are split here between Immonen and Sprouse. Both provide good work, and Sprouse's stuff does give the Legionnaires a more youthful edge to them.

Jacques resigns as President, Troy is now in charge. Jacques also has a recruiting drive, which apparently does not include the Bimbino Twins (much to Tenzils dismay I'm sure.) Lot's of "we'll think about it" from the Subs as well as his own sister...not very promising.

Sean and Jan chat.

Brainy talks to Dawny. It seems to me that the reason that she was ignored so much previously was due to the K portion of the TMK team. But I could be mistaken.

There is a nice reunion between Invisible Kid and his parents...who buried their son 17 years prior. Nice touch by the writing crew here.

Reep decides to jump ship and form a "new" team with the Legionnaires. They receive sanctioning from President Troy. We meet the newer recruits (Computo, Dragonmage, Catspaw) and get to see their new uniforms...plus a few new code names for some old favorites.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Legionnaires #1, Apr 93 - Baptism by fire

Wow, has it really been that long since the SW6 kids got their own book?

This was a fun book overall. Lighter in tone from it's older counterpart...at least up until the end. Good art here by Sprouse. I like the Legionnaire Roll Call at the front, showing who is highlighted in the issue.

The thrust of the issue starts with trouble in the floating cities stability.

They find out a gang of kids called "The Hand."

Several of the Legionnaires attempt to infiltrate the hide=out, and are found out. Mega (a member of the gang that led them there) is killed, and Jo is in danger on the last page...

Things I really liked:

-Ferro Lad is back in action. Nice to see him and I like the daredevil attitude a lot.

-Great seeing the Legionnaires in action and in costume. It's been a while since we really had a Legion book with heroes running around in spandex. While I enjoy the more adult nature of the Legion book, it's a blast to see the young Legionnaires back in action.

While I enjoyed this book, there are a few quibbles with it:

-I know they set this up with the Proty/Garth thing, but I really do not remember Garth being such a dick before he "died." Ah well, can't have everything.

-What kind of undercover team goes into the opposing groups liar by only throwing coats over their uniforms. Cham (codename for him now that he is with the Legionnaires) is the leader of the Espionage Team, and this is the best disguises he can come up with for them?

-How does Mano know Apparitions new code name? The last he knew she went by Phantom Girl. Unless there was a huge media push while we were "away." On a total mess of a linked city floatilla.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
I must also point out that I enjoyed the profile stuff in the backs of the first few issues. Nice touch to bring everyone up to speed on who's who.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Valor #3, Jan 93 - She's the One

Ummm...Valor fights off a gang of space hijackers led by The White Spider.

Valor seems strangely protective over his ship...which comes across as a pissy K.I.T.T.

He runs into Lobo (there's an original guest star, but at least they know each other) at the end and decks him because Lobo insulted his ship.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Valor #4, Feb 93 - Low Blow

L.E.G.I.O.N. is in this issue, and even though it's only as side/background guests, they're a welcome sight. The fight between Valor and Lobo takes up most of the issue. Meh. Dox of course double crosses Valor at the end, but what else would we expect.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
LSH #42, Apr 93 - The Enemy Within

Good issue that gives Lu back a second body (Yay for Chuck)

Quick recap of Computo killing one of Triplicate Girls bodies. Lu wakes up from her dream to be taken by someone.

Poker night at LSH Headquarters when Chuck comes calling.

Brainy testsing Laurels strength after her recooperation. Receive message that someon is attacking Rond. Laurel goes to aid. Querl starts to puzzle it out.

Laurel is taken captive by the same mysterious figure. Querl is then taken, and we find out that the person taking the Legion members is working for Glorith.

That person is revealed to be Lu's second body that was lost during the Conspiracy story-line. Brainy is revealed to be Cham, and he ports Querl in, naked as a Jay Bird. He thought he had "worked it out."

Lu saves them from Glorith by using her shielding powers...a new development that is a really nice retconned gift from Querl.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Legionnaires #2, May 93 - 1...

Another great issue overall.

Short of not liking Live Wire's attitude, and the seeminglly forced triangle they were developing with the founders, there's not much to complain about.

Ultra Boy and the rest of the team are saved by great planning form Triad.

TRY OUTS!!!!!

-X-Bomb Betty - um...yeah. Not gonna really come up with anything that hasn't been said about her before sooo....

-Cera Kesh - Had potential, and it was interesting to see what happens to her later. One thing though, How did Live Wire fall on his hiney that hard if he is wearing a Legion Flight Ring?

-Plaid Lad - Best. Applicant. Ever.

Inferno shows what an arse he is here, which is interesting considering what he had seen himself become just months earlier. Again, this development feels a bit forced.

There's a monster in the tunnels, and the Persuaders axe is "stolen" by MacCauley.
 

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Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
 
Cuz he's an idiot.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Valor #5, Mar 93 - Go directly to jail

Valor ends up in prison thanks to Vril. Guest shot by the Blasters (anyone remember them?), but they seem to be here as a convenient plot device and nothing more.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Valor #6, Apr 93 - Blasters to the rescue.

Gee, the Blasters end up helping Valor break out. How convenient that they were in the right part of the Universe to help.

But wait...something else has escaped...or has it?
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
LSH #43, May 93 - The Witch is Back

Not a bad issue here. Art is fantastic, and the story is not to bad either. We finally revisit some lingering plots.

Mysa finds what she believes to be Amethyst and goes to attack Mordru. The Martian Manhunter (really old version) drops in to help, and try to warn her off as well.

Sussa shows up at Legion HQ for help opening her canister that she stole like 283 issues ago. How's that for a lingering sub-plot. Nice thing was her holding her own against some big guns of the LSH and immediately backing down to Drura,

Jacque is back, and he wants to get them outfits...
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Legionnaires #3, Jun 93 - 2...The Beast below

We're setting up the Fatal Five. Good issue...same dislikes.

Mordecai fights Leviathan and Gossamer. He/it takes Goss, and leaves Leviathan for dead. Garth makes all tough guy and people shout him down.

Another team goes out after the monstre, and Leviathan goes after them. Once Mordecai seems defeated, he/it is teleported away.

The Persuader gets his axe back.

Cera makes a new friend...a green glowing orb of a friend.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Valor #7, May 93 - Unimaginable Consequences

Valors ship os possessed...but comes out alright. Valor takes some old prisoner with him as they escape. The sun they are near is going to go supernova soon thanks to a creature relased from the prison.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Valor #8, Jun 93 - Red Alert

Valor saves a small creature from the supernova and gets out of there just in time.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
LSH #44, Jun 93 - Projectra Returns

Good issue. I cannot say enoough about how much I love Immonen's Legion art. Great stuff. Good story that bring us towards Night of the Living Heroes...all they need is a Black Lantern ring and we could have a retro crossover.

Man, Mordru is one sadistic S.O.B. Mysa gets duped by Mordru, and he gains all kinds of crazy power.

Andrew (from the Mordruverse) appears and tells Rokk and Jacques that Mysa needs them and their love. They do and Mordru is brought back down a bit. He has another plan though..."The Romero Initiative."

Jeckie is visiting Val's grave and is then attacked by every dead Legion member there is. Including a put together Blok...Did they use Quick-crete or something when they buried him?

The Khunds ask for help, and the Legion accepts 4 Khund members.

Tenzil comes back from searching for Mysa with J'onn. Kono get's a new outfit and persona...Amethyst.

The dead are rising on Legion asteroid...uh oh!
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Legionnaires # 4, Jul 93 - 3...If Looks Could Kill

Okay. Good issue, good writing and good art. Keeps the story moving. No complaints except the characterization of Livewire and Inferno.

Cera gets some revenge in this issue. Let's face it folks, Ineferno deserved it. No permanent damage done.

The Fatal Five are back...mostly. There are two Eyes and Empresses right now. MacCauley has bought his Fatal Five, and has Tharok in a "Bacta" tank, if you will.

Trouble is coming for our heroes.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Valor #9, Jul 93 - How to win friends and influence people

Hmmm...look at that, a guest written (and nicely drawn by Paris Cullins) by Mark Waid, featuring a Darkstar (remember them?) named Bron. Who happens to be appearing in Trinity, coming soon to a LCS near you. Or at least if you go back in time it'll be.

Not a bad issue, too bad it was all a stunt to give Bron some cred heading into said event.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
Valor #10, Aug 93 - Power Struggle

White Spider is back. Yawn. The unimaginable is back as well...yawn. The old prisoner used to be a hot female Green Lantern. Convenient. Oh yeah, Valor is sick as well.
 

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Posted by Dev Em on :
 
LSH #45, Jul 93 - New Members? New Problems

Good issue, if a bit puzzling at times.

On Sklar, the Legion confronts Mordru's Undead legions.

There is some shenanigans with the Khunds and Jo.

Jeckie tries to summon some form of help.

The dead Legion shows up. Next issue is gonna be fun.

Okay, the thing that has always gotten me about this whole thing...how are heroes that died 1000+ years ago running around (albeit dead), let alone on a planet that is not Earth (which was blown up.) At the very least they would have been deteriorated more than this by now...at least the outfits would be gone...unless they're those pesky "unstable molecules." The dead Legion members I can accept...except for Blok being back in one piece. Still not sure on that...lotsa super glue I guess.
 

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Posted by Superboy-Supergirl on :
 
and with Valor 11...we're at zero hour point!!!!!!

quote:

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In The Legion Companion, Giffen admits that he destroyed earth as a “temper tantrum”—a parting shot at DC, whose editorial interference and lack of support undermined the story he wished to tell.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dev Em:
LSH #45, Jul 93 - New Members? New Problems

Okay, the thing that has always gotten me about this whole thing...how are heroes that died 1000+ years ago running around (albeit dead), let alone on a planet that is not Earth (which was blown up.) At the very least they would have been deteriorated more than this by now...at least the outfits would be gone...unless they're those pesky "unstable molecules." The dead Legion members I can accept...except for Blok being back in one piece. Still not sure on that...lotsa super glue I guess.

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