Seems posting's been a little slow the past few days. So, my next poll...
The 90s name changes for the SW6 Legion and later the reboot. Divisive. An effort to give the Legion names in a 90s style rather than a 60s style.
I didn't include Mon-El's name changes, as those weren't just about changing the style.
Posted by Quislet, Esq. on :
I actually had two on that list that I considered worst.
Posted by Yellow Kid on :
About half of them are just plain bad. I like Alchemist but only if you give it to Condo Arlik, I actually dislike Gossamer and Leviathan is such a cliche I can barely stand it. Inferno was good but the underage mall rat version really owned the name so Dirk gets to be called Sunboy again.
It's interesting to note that Ayla Ranzz has had no less than four (4!) names as a Legionnaire.
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
Most of the names I could live with (even Gossamer), but Alchemist sounds more like an archaic job description than a hero code name. To me, it's the most generic-sounding name on the list.
If Trips had included Mon-El's names, I would definitely have voted for Valor for the same reason: It's not a name, it's a self-aggrandizing attribute.
Posted by Reboot on :
quote:Originally posted by Yellow Kid: It's interesting to note that Ayla Ranzz has had no less than four (4!) names as a Legionnaire.
Five [Pulse, Legion on the Run]
Posted by Yellow Kid on :
heh
..wait, does that count? They were "in disguise"
Posted by Ricardo on :
quote:Originally posted by Yellow Kid: heh
..wait, does that count? They were "in disguise"
The entire book was in disguise, to be frank. Was it even a Legion book? Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
If we had been allowed two votes I would've voted "Leviathan" for #2
Posted by cleome on :
I don't mind Valor, personally. "Valor" was the last name of a supporting character in another book I used to read-- He was a nice guy, too. So the association didn't bother me.
Leviathan just makes me grin because it reminds me of the sea-king in those Hebrew folk tales I'd hear a lot as a kid.
Bearing in mind that I wasn't around for most of the name changes, so this is all the ultimate in Monday-morning quarterbacking for me.
Posted by Chaim Mattis Keller on :
Leviathan being a giant AQUATIC monster is the reason I voted for that as the worst name change. There must be giant names that could have been used that are more appropriate.
Posted by Set on :
I picked Gossamer. Ugh. Levitation Lass would have been better...
I loved Umbra. Best reboot name ever, IMO.
Posted by LardLad on :
I chose Leviathan--SO doesn't say "guy grows to giant size" to me. Nothing particularly monstrous about Gim, really.
I'm surprised Gossamer's winning/losing by a landslide! My guess woulda been Alchemist.
Posted by cleome on :
quote:Originally posted by Chaim Mattis Keller: Leviathan being a giant AQUATIC monster is the reason I voted for that as the worst name change. There must be giant names that could have been used that are more appropriate.
So he didn't have scales and a tail for that run then ? Or at least a flight ring that dispensed bottles of water ?
Tsk.
Posted by Matthew E on :
quote:Originally posted by Reboot:
quote:Originally posted by Yellow Kid: It's interesting to note that Ayla Ranzz has had no less than four (4!) names as a Legionnaire.
Five [Pulse, Legion on the Run]
Actually, more than that: she went by both 'Lightning Lad' and 'Live Wire' at times. She was in disguise as Lightning Lad, but not as Live Wire.
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
2nd to vote for Dreamer. Why, cuz
I don't like it.
I'd been happy with "Dream."
Posted by Yellow Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by Matthew E:
quote:Originally posted by Reboot:
quote:Originally posted by Yellow Kid: It's interesting to note that Ayla Ranzz has had no less than four (4!) names as a Legionnaire.
Five [Pulse, Legion on the Run]
Actually, more than that: she went by both 'Lightning Lad' and 'Live Wire' at times. She was in disguise as Lightning Lad, but not as Live Wire.
Whoa. Seven That's gotta be some kind of record.
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
Ayla Ranzz: The Hank Pym of Legiondom!
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
quote:Originally posted by cleome: Leviathan just makes me grin because it reminds me of the sea-king in those Hebrew folk tales I'd hear a lot as a kid.
This is another reason, besides his growth powers, that I thought the name was fitting: In the preboot, it was established that Gim was Jewish. (I don't recall if he was in the reboot.)
As for Gim not resembling a sea monster, as some have said, people sometimes forget that codenames don't have to be taken literally. Medusa, in mythology, is an ugly woman with snakes for hair and who turns men to stone with a gaze. Medusa of the Inhumans has nothing in common with this character other than that her power originates from her hair. But it's hard to think of the second Medusa with any other name.
Posted by Triplicate Kid on :
Well, this one's getting responses quickly. Guess there are strong feelings. I'm surprised at the early leader, too.
I should've mentioned I didn't include the Legion on the Run names. Again, different reason. None of them were meant to last, and they were supposed make a break from past names to hide their identities (they didn't really).
Posted by Quislet, Esq. on :
my number 2 choice would have been Alchemist
Posted by jimgallagher on :
You left out Shrinking Violet -> Leviathan.
I voted for Leviathan too, but I was torn between that, Alchemist, and Apparition.
I too am surprised at Gossamer being the most hated name on the list.
Posted by googoomuck on :
It would have been better to have the poll vote for the 3 or 4 code names that I like.
Posted by Arm Fall Off Boy on :
Honestly, I didn't like any of these. Too many visual connotations are conjured up:
Live Wire-Can't touch this! Spark-Bzzt. Like a bug zapper Gossamer-Pretty, but, weak, weak, weak. Apparition-She'll always be Phantom Girl Inferno-I think of a towering, burning building where people die. Leviathan-Same as above. He'll always be Colossal boy. Micro Lad is just as bad. Andromeda-She's a super powerful person, not a friggin' galaxy! Valor-This one actually grew on me, but once Mon-el, always Mon-el. Didn't like M'onel either.
Just a crappy bunch of names, but I voted Gossamer the worst.
Posted by Reboot on :
quote:Originally posted by He Who Wanders: This is another reason, besides his growth powers, that I thought the name was fitting: In the preboot, it was established that Gim was Jewish. (I don't recall if he was in the reboot.)
I think it was said or shown at his funeral, although I don't have the issue to hand to check.
quote:Originally posted by Arm Fall Off Boy: Live Wire-Can't touch this! Spark-Bzzt. Like a bug zapper
I think that the secondary meanings for these two (after, of course, the electricity link) were intended to be
quote:LIVE WIRE [answers.com] Informal. A vivacious, alert, or energetic person.
quote:SPARK [New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary] d A trace or flash of spirit, courage, wit, etc. M20.
[I do agree with you about "Gossamer", however, which is why I voted for it. In a sense, it's exactly the opposite of "Spark" as a name.]
quote:Originally posted by Arm Fall Off Boy: [QB] Too many visual connotations are conjured up: Apparition-She'll always be Phantom Girl [...] Leviathan-Same as above. He'll always be Colossal boy. Micro Lad is just as bad.
And they are visual connotations, how?
Posted by Triplicate Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by jimgallagher: You left out Shrinking Violet -> Leviathan.
Again, on purpose. That went with a power change. I only put in names that could be applied to the same character. Asking about Violet would've brought with it the issue of whether or not you liked that story development.
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
quote:Originally posted by Arm Fall Off Boy: Andromeda-She's a super powerful person, not a friggin' galaxy!
Andromeda is also the name of a character from Greek mythology: a princess who was chained to a rock after her mother boasted how beautiful she was. This makes me think of Laurel's early postboot personality and how she was imprisoned after the White Triangle storyline.
Another interesting connection is suggested by Wikipedia. "Andromeda" means literally "to think of a man," which is fitting since Laurel was conceived as a female version of Mon-El and replacement for Supergirl (a female Superboy).
Posted by MLLASH on :
I haven't even voted yet because I can't choose between ALCHEMIST and LEVIATHAN. HATED those.
Actually since Alchemist got dumped post-boot for the original name Element Lad but the Colossal Boy name didn't return until late 3boot, I might go with Leviathan...
Posted by What Was Wrong With the Reboot? Lad on :
regardless of Leviathan being a biblical sea monster or mythical beast and nothing to do with a guy that grows really tall...
when i was 11 years old and reading Legionnaires #1 for the first time, I had no idea how to pronounce it!!
Le-VIE-a-thon? Levi-a-thon? Levy-a-thon? to a fourth grader, that's IMPOSSIBLE to figure out
also, the name just doesn't sound super heroic...
Posted by Arm Fall Off Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by Arm Fall Off Boy: Live Wire-Can't touch this! Spark-Bzzt. Like a bug zapper
I think that the secondary meanings for these two (after, of course, the electricity link) were intended to be
quote:LIVE WIRE [answers.com] Informal. A vivacious, alert, or energetic person.
quote:SPARK [New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary] d A trace or flash of spirit, courage, wit, etc. M20.
[I do agree with you about "Gossamer", however, which is why I voted for it. In a sense, it's exactly the opposite of "Spark" as a name]
Yes, I know. I was just trying to have a little fun with these.
quote:Originally posted by Arm Fall Off Boy: [QB] Too many visual connotations are conjured up: Apparition-She'll always be Phantom Girl [...] Leviathan-Same as above. He'll always be Colossal boy. Micro Lad is just as bad.
And they are visual connotations, how? [/QUOTE]
Ok, I got a little carried away in including Apparition in the visual thing. You're right.
Micro Lad to me will always be the reject who joined to LSV. I understand this latest Gim could shrink down to six feet, but he was still macro size if you ask me.
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
quote:Originally posted by What Was Wrong With the Reboot? Lad: when i was 11 years old and reading Legionnaires #1 for the first time, I had no idea how to pronounce [Leviathan]!!
What's wrong with a fourth grader looking it up in a dictionary or encyclopedia?
One of the "icing on the cake" appeals that comics always had for me was in learning new words or ideas. I remember thinking that Magneto was pronounced "mag-net-o" (instead of the accurate "mag-neet-o") and being astonished when I found out that it was a real word.
Likewise, I didn't figure out that the accent on Sub-Mariner was on the second syllable and not the third until long after I first encountered the character.
Learning how to pronounce difficult names in comic books can even have a positive real-world application, as it can make kids receptive to words or names that don't readily conform to the grammar rules we are taught in grade school. One of my favorite bands, Jefferson Airplane, had a guitarist named Jorma Kaukonen. I learned some years after I discovered them that I had been pronouncing his name wrong. It's "YOR-ma COW-kuh-nen"--which is how it is pronounced in Finland, where Jorma's family is from. Whereas some of my friends and family members would get embarrassed at learning they had mispronounced a word--or dismiss the correct pronunciation because it didn't fit in with what they had been taught--I always regarded such times as "a-ha!" moments.
Kids are going to encounter difficult names or words sooner or later; introducing such names in a comic book setting was, to me at least, a fun way of getting started.
Posted by Zero Kahn on :
Umbra and Gossamer. I actully liked alot of the new names. Triad, Apparition, Inferno, Andromada were all pretty good in my opinion. That and some dropping the boy, lad and such like Chameleon and Ferro.
Posted by stephbarton on :
I went with Lightning Lad to Live Wire, not only is Live Wire such a STUPID name, but also I don't see why you would change it for Lightning Lad and not Cosmic Boy or Saturn Girl, the change really seems pointless. But if those three are going to be your founders and important, don't give one of them such a stupid name and don't just change it for one of them.
although Gossamer and Alchemist and Liveithan were also pretty stupid, especially Gossamer because it's such a horrible name, much less for a Super hero, just, yuck.
Honestly if they couldn't think of better names then why change them to begin with?
Posted by Malvolio on :
Leviathan just never worked for me. It was even worse when Violet became LeVIathan. And this is coming from someone who loves giant woman stories. But the name really stank.
Posted by cleome on :
I think the only one I would have really had a problem with would have been "Gossamer." As a card-carrying WB cartoon snob since almost the day I was born, that name will never bring anything to mind but a giant orange-furred monster in white tennis shoes.
There's crossover potential there, now that I think about it... [snerk]
Posted by Sarcasm Kid on :
I didn't think there was a problem with the names. But, then again, I was born in the start of the 90s, so...
Posted by Triplicate Kid on :
And I didn't include Andromeda because Laurel Gand never really had a superhero name before that.
Posted by Blacula on :
I'm one of the few that voted for Umbra.
I'm honestly surprised it didn't get more votes. I don't get why anyone would like it. Umbra. Umbra. It doesn't even sound nice. Or look good on paper. Not to mention that its meaning is probably even more obscure than Gossamer.
The other thing I hated about it was that Tasmia had a fantastic costume at the time with a great big 'S' on it yet her name began with a 'U'. Annoying.
There were a bunch of bad names to choose from though.
Despite him being my fave version of my all-time fave Legionnaire I never liked the code-name Leviathan either. There must have been so many better ones to choose from for Gim too. And don't get me started on LeVIathan.
Other non-faves were Dreamer, Chameleon, Ferro, Sensor (they sound incomplete without the Boy/Girl parts) and Triad, which immediately brings up Chinese-gang connotations in my mind rather than plucky super-girl.
I actually didn't mind Gossamer. Or Alchemist. Though I found it harder to picture Jan with anything other than his original code-name than I did Ayla.
Posted by Reboot on :
quote:Originally posted by Sarcasm Kid: I didn't think there was a problem with the names. But, then again, I was born in the start of the 90s, so...
Conceptually, I think pretty much all the 90s names were better (Gossamer, as I mentioned, being the notable exception) - even besides the Lad/Lass fetish, nearly all the 60s names are too. damn. long. Codenames are for spouting out quickly and clearly - by the time you've got to the end of the longer names, you've probably been clobbered, or your signal's been jammed and you've spent time on a pointlessly long name. [It's how Al Gore's daughter got stuck with the Secret Service codename "Smurfette" - she got asked for a two-syllable word starting with "S" within the next thirty seconds, and she said the first thing that came into her head]
quote:Originally posted by Blacula: The other thing I hated about it was that Tasmia had a fantastic costume at the time with a great big 'S' on it yet her name began with a 'U'. Annoying.
I like the sound of Umbra, actually. And the "S" was never a hangup for me - for one thing, it's highly stylised so that it's basically a wavy line, and two... it looks even less like an interlac "S" than it does the latin "S".
Do you have a problem with the reboot Jan having a chest symbol that looks nothing like an "E" (Interlac OR Latin)? Or howsabout the hourglass-styled stripe on Vi's last costume?
quote:Originally posted by Blacula: Other non-faves were Dreamer, Chameleon, Ferro, Sensor (they sound incomplete without the Boy/Girl parts)
Sensor, I'll give you - but not because of how it sounded, but because it didn't actually make any sense, since Jeka didn't have any sensor-related powers (I would rather have seen the illusionist get an abstract codename). The others... nope.
quote:Originally posted by Blacula: ...and Triad, which immediately brings up Chinese-gang connotations in my mind rather than plucky super-girl.
Here's the first definition in the dictionary I have to hand:
quote:triad /"trVIad/ n. M16. [Fr. triade or late L triad-, trias f. Gk triad-, trias, f. tri- TRI-: see -AD1.]
1 A group or set of three (persons, things, attributes, etc.); spec. (a) Chr. Theol. the Trinity; (b) a Welsh form of literary composition characterized by an arrangement of subjects or statements in groups of three. M16.
[Gangs are 4 of 5, after "In Pythagoreanism, the number three." and "Mus. A chord of three notes, consisting of a given note with the third and fifth above it. M18."]
[ January 06, 2009, 02:33 AM: Message edited by: Reboot ]
Posted by Blacula on :
quote:Originally posted by Reboot: Do you have a problem with the reboot Jan having a chest symbol that looks nothing like an "E" (Interlac OR Latin)? Or howsabout the hourglass-styled stripe on Vi's last costume?
I thought reboot Jan's symbol was always quite obviously a stylised 'E' (for Element Lad) so I never had any problem with that aspect of his costume.
On an aesthetic level though, I thought the design and colours of his costume were among the worst to grace any Legionnaire ever so in that regard, yes I did have a huge problem with his costume.
Can't quite picture Vi's hourglass stripe that you mention but don't think I would've had a problem with it. The general dullness of all of Vi's reboot costumes though, were a bit of an issue for me.
quote:Originally posted by Reboot: Here's the first definition in the dictionary I have to hand:
quote:triad /"trVIad/ n. M16. [Fr. triade or late L triad-, trias f. Gk triad-, trias, f. tri- TRI-: see -AD1.]
1 A group or set of three (persons, things, attributes, etc.); spec. (a) Chr. Theol. the Trinity; (b) a Welsh form of literary composition characterized by an arrangement of subjects or statements in groups of three. M16.
[Gangs are 4 of 5, after "In Pythagoreanism, the number three." and "Mus. A chord of three notes, consisting of a given note with the third and fifth above it. M18."]
That may be so but it was never the first definition that sprung to my mind when I saw the name Triad.
This is probably a regional thing but down here in Perth, Western Australia we have a huge Chinese/South-East Asian immigrant population (they being our closest neighbours and all) and during the 90s there was a lot of reactionary talk in conservative newspapers (probably wrongly) that a lot of the rising crime in the city was the fault of the famous Chinese criminal organisation, the Triads (similar to the Sicilian Mafia or the Japanese Yakuza or the 30th Century Taurus Gang).
So, since I was reading this book in the late 90s, that was the first conotation that came to mind when I saw the name Triad. Dictionary-philes might have immediately thought of the definition you mention though. Posted by He Who Wanders on :
quote:Originally posted by Reboot: Conceptually, I think pretty much all the 90s names were better (Gossamer, as I mentioned, being the notable exception) - even besides the Lad/Lass fetish, nearly all the 60s names are too. damn. long. Codenames are for spouting out quickly and clearly - by the time you've got to the end of the longer names, you've probably been clobbered, or your signal's been jammed and you've spent time on a pointlessly long name. [It's how Al Gore's daughter got stuck with the Secret Service codename "Smurfette" - she got asked for a two-syllable word starting with "S" within the next thirty seconds, and she said the first thing that came into her head]
This is a good point. Another consideration is that if you're going to go into battle against the Fatal Five, you want a name that's going to engender respect, if not fear. Let's face it: Cosmic Boy, Saturn Girl, and Matter-Eater Lad do not cut it.
(Of course, Ferro, Triad, et. al., may not engender fear or respect, either, but at least Tharok is less likely to snicker over them.)
Another aspect of the '90s codenames that I appreciated is that they weren't too obvious. They made you think or even do some research to figure out how the name applied to the character. If kids learned new words such as "gossamer," "umbra," or "leviathan," so much the better. But even us older folks benefited, I think, by looking at the characters in a different way and seeing how their powers might relate to other concepts.
About Umbra: I confess that I hated the name for an entirely different reason. Years ago, I came up with a different character with that name, only to have to change it when DC started using it. Posted by Triplicate Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by Blacula: I'm one of the few that voted for Umbra.
I'm honestly surprised it didn't get more votes. I don't get why anyone would like it. Umbra. Umbra. It doesn't even sound nice. Or look good on paper. Not to mention that its meaning is probably even more obscure than Gossamer.
I'm trying to think of the last time in my life I heard the word "gossamer". Umbra, whereas, I'm familiar with. Amateur astronomy background...
quote:Originally posted by Blacula: Can't quite picture Vi's hourglass stripe that you mention but don't think I would've had a problem with it. The general dullness of all of Vi's reboot costumes though, were a bit of an issue for me.
quote:Originally posted by He Who Wanders: About Umbra: I confess that I hated the name for an entirely different reason. Years ago, I came up with a different character with that name, only to have to change it when DC started using it.
I know the feeling. I came up with characters called Dark Angel and even Power Girl before I knew comic characters already existed with those names.
Recognizability of a name is an issue. I once mentioned Ferro Lad to a non-Legion-reading friend, and she said "Feral Lad?" Then, "ferro" isn't really a word, only in combination with something.
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
Recognizability is important, but I don't think it should be a primary or even secondary consideration when selecting a name.
If we take it for granted (as DC and Marvel seem to) that the first readership for comics is young children, then most names are going to be new to them. Should creators then keep the names simple so kids can recognize them, or should should creators try for something more creative and bit beyond a child's level so readers can "grow into" the characters?
I suggest the latter approach is better. Otherwise, Sub-Mariner might have been called "Fish Man" and Cyclops might have been called "Mr. Eye-Beams." Kids, of course, may know what a cyclops is, and they may equate Namor's name with a submarine (I did, which was the reason I mispronounced it as a child), but these names were not immediately recognizable in terms of what the characters could do. (Namor could not fire torpedoes, for example. Scott only vaguely looked like he had one eye when he wore his visor.) It's worth discovering that "mariner" refers to someone who travels by sea, and "sub-" means, of course, underneath.
Besides, names can take on their own meanings once fans become accustomed to them. Someone once pointed out that "The Beatles" is a very silly name, and it is. But it's taken on a life of its own.
The more I think about it, the more I like "Gossamer." Not only does it describe Ayla's power, it also rolls off the tongue. If young readers were not familiar with the word, I bet it didn't take them long to figure out what it meant.
Posted by jimgallagher on :
I liked Dreamer, Spark, and Gossamer. Hated Alchemist, Leviathan, and Apparition.
Inferno was okay. Didn't like Sensor or Ferro. Umbra is short, appropriate, and sounds feminine, but I missed calling her Shady.
I think Waft would be a good name for Light Lass. It's short and to the point and it means "to carry lightly and smoothly through the air" or "to send or convey lightly, as if in flight."
Posted by Blacula on :
^ With my slight dyslexia I read your 'Waft' above Jim as 'Fart'. Wouldn't that be an inappropriate name for Ayla.
Posted by Triplicate Kid on :
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
[Pulse, Legion on the Run]![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
![[LOL]](graemlins/lol.gif)
Wouldn't that be an inappropriate name for Ayla.