[ November 28, 2008, 02:15 PM: Message edited by: Nightcrawler ]
Posted by Quislet, Esq. on :
Oh I like it.
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
All is forgiven.
Edit:
Why's there a pick-up truck in the background? Maybe all's not forgiven. That's a silo, with fins.
[ November 28, 2008, 07:25 AM: Message edited by: Blockade Boy ]
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
and where's the hussy's left hand and why does Clark have that silly smile?
Posted by Pariscub on :
quote:Originally posted by Blockade Boy: All is forgiven.
Edit:
Why's there a pick-up truck in the background? Maybe all's not forgiven. That's a silo, with fins.
Could be in Smallville, and Pa Kent's truck.
Posted by Suddenly Seymour on :
quote:Originally posted by Blockade Boy: why does Clark have that silly smile?
Cause he's getting goosed by TV's original Wonder Woman, Cathy Lee Crosby, in a Saturn Girl costume.
Posted by Tromium on :
I'm sure Gary Frank will become a decent artist some day -- when he learns to draw people who don't look perpetually stoned.
Posted by Ricardo on :
That probably answers a little bit what's the newest retcon by Johns. And kind of hints he might actually write Adventure Comics, in my opinion.
Posted by Omni Craig on :
The pick-up truck is on the Legion cover because all the covers link together. See the first four issues in color in John's interview about this series here . There's a link to a larger image as well when you get there!
Johns says we'll see the Legion and Mordru. Maybe he'll tell the story we've never seen, of the Legion's first battle with Mordru? That would be most cool!!
This series is a "must" for me!!
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by Omni Craig: The pick-up truck is on the Legion cover because all the covers link together.
Ah, that clears it up. I thought they were trying to play a fast one, make us think it was Superboy in the future while it was really in the present/past.
The "lost" Mordru story, that WOULD be so cool. It's the "with a twist" part that makes nerves get twitchy.
I still don't like the look of Frank's characters but he does do a great job of aging Clark.
[ November 28, 2008, 10:48 AM: Message edited by: Blockade Boy ]
Posted by Pariscub on :
quote:Originally posted by Omni Craig: The pick-up truck is on the Legion cover because all the covers link together. See the first four issues in color in John's interview about this series here . There's a link to a larger image as well when you get there!
Johns says we'll see the Legion and Mordru. Maybe he'll tell the story we've never seen, of the Legion's first battle with Mordru? That would be most cool!!
This series is a "must" for me!!
[ November 28, 2008, 06:28 PM: Message edited by: Nightcrawler ]
Posted by MLLASH on :
And this easily*, DC gets me to buy a Superman's origin miniseries.
*By including the Legion. Note to other creators: learn from this.
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
tis true and who can not pick up a book when there's a fu manchu on the cover?
Posted by Arm Fall Off Boy on :
1. She does look like Cathy Lee Crosby! 2. Check out the look Lightning Lad's giving them. 3. For those of you old enough to remember the Brady Bunch, that's Kal-El's "Porkchops and Applesauce" face. 4. Gary Frank-I generally like his work, though we don't need to see every tooth and space in between. But, I do like his Reeve and Kidder-like Lois and Clark/Superman. It's a great tribute. 5. Superboy's head looks a little too big. He has the Kurt Schaffenburger body with a Gary Frank head. 6. I still like the classic Cosmic Boy Uni the best. Even if it is pink. 7. All in all, VERRYY nice!
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Hey, hey, hey, this looks like it could be pretty cool...
Posted by jimgallagher on :
Some people are impossible to please. I think this artwork is gorgeous. Who's that on the far right with Supes? Jor-El and Lara? I've not seen this look for them.
Posted by Set on :
Garth has a really smug look in that picture. For some reason, I'm now seeing Garth being played by the dude who plays Dean on Supernatural...
Posted by Omni Craig on :
Jim,
I'd bet the bank they're going to be the "re-re-re-revised" Jor-El and Lara. Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
I completely despise the crystalline Krypton.
Other than that, the image actually looks pretty decent.
Posted by Sketch Lad on :
Love it!
Posted by Ricardo on :
I love Gary Frank's artwork. It's realistic, but at the same time, it is very over the top, which enhances its sort of magical sensation for me. Yeah, sometimes I don't make sense... On the other hand, this whole revisitation only serves to re-introduce Superboy to Superman's mythos and probably created the ultimate Doomsday (the Hulk on the last frame) or some dumb villain Geoff loves to create...
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
I hope this cover from newsarama is accurate and we have Clark back with the Legion as should be!
That's already under discussion here. Down the thread there's even a smaller colored version of four issues covers that link together.
Posted by future king on :
I am not a fan of Gary Frank's Legion work. His style was better suited for the Squadron Supreme mini series (which was excellent). I have to agree with Tromium .... "perpetually stoned" ... I love it! Took the words right out of my mouth.
Posted by Chemical King on :
Oh my... so let's recap: Somewhen in the 80s somebody made the weak-minded decision to erase Superboy cause he at that time was just not cool. or whatever. The whole Superman story was rewritten, and the Legion continuity was majorly challenged by this one decision which lead to Pocket universe, and later on, as the even more weak-minded decision was made that Pocket universe was not enough, lead further to Valor and in the end Zero Hour. Because it simply got too convoluted for the average reader (or so the editors thought).
Now, some 20 years later, they decide that Superboy wasn't that uncool at all... "now that you think of it... maybe..." so they rewrite it again. Or re-rewrite it so that it's much closer to the old continuity that to Byrne Man of Steel.
I liked the old continuity and never understood the Man of Steel approach, but the question that remains is.... WHY??? Why did they have to destroy everything in the first place?
The Legion and Superboy had always kind of a natural connection. I never was a Superboy fan, but I never had a problem with the 20th century connection as well. So now we seemingly are coming full circle. But so much has been lost on the way...
For me, the return of the para-classic Legion and of Superboy is a positive event. But I certainly won't get the whole Origins series (only the Legion issue) cause.... IT HAS BEEN TOLD AND RE-RETOLD WAY TOO OFTEN! I don't believe that there is much to add to it. Just make the old be new again and be done with it - if you need my Man of Steel copy to flush down the toilet, I'll be happy to provide it...
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by Ricardo: probably created the ultimate Doomsday (the Hulk on the last frame) or some dumb villain Geoff loves to create...
What "Hulk" on the last frame? Have I gone blind? I don't see it.
Byrne: Did he ever give a reason for the removal of Superboy?
Posted by l.e.g.i.o.n.JOHN on :
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: I completely despise the crystalline Krypton.
EDE i know what you mean,..i mean it's been over 30 years since Superman:the movie and to my recollection they never added anything from the movie into the Superman mythos. now all of a sudden it's like it's 1978 all over again. and what is the deal with Jor-el looking like as if Marlon brando and Michael McDonald had sired a son?
Posted by Ricardo on :
quote:Originally posted by Blockade Boy:
quote:Originally posted by Ricardo: probably created the ultimate Doomsday (the Hulk on the last frame) or some dumb villain Geoff loves to create...
What "Hulk" on the last frame? Have I gone blind? I don't see it.
Byrne: Did he ever give a reason for the removal of Superboy?
It's actually on the 5th frame, on the black and white Newsarama article, not on the colored version.
Byrne: I don't remember any specific reason. But I would say that it made more sense that Superman would appear as an adult in Metropolis out of a sudden than being for years and years stuck in Smallville being, you know, Superman and nobody knowing about it. It was a sign of times, I guess. I still don't like Superboy and I prefer Byrne's reading of Superman over Johns. I mean, Krypto? Gimme a break. Unless it has an Ambush Bug tagged along, I really don't see a reason for SuperPuppies back into chronology.
[ November 30, 2008, 04:26 PM: Message edited by: Nightcrawler ]
Posted by matlock on :
If memory serves I think part of Byrne's rationale was also that because we know that Superboy grows up to become Superman then any Superboy story inherently lacks tension because he's in no real jeapardy.
I'm sort of noncommital about this latest development. Is it the last step in banishing the reboot and threeboot teams? I don't neccesarily enjoy the John's version of the team so much that enshrining it as the current "official" version thrills me.
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
Goes to personal tastes, i suppose. I liked the old Krypto stuff, as well as there being a Superboy with the legion. Much as i love the legion, it isn't Legion without Superboy.
After all, it is a classic origin, based on a Superboy story.
Superman was never my favorite, but for some reason, Superboy seemed like a completely different character, and one that, while not my favorite, worked in the context of the Legion.
Posted by Ricardo on :
quote:Originally posted by rickshaw1: Goes to personal tastes, i suppose. I liked the old Krypto stuff, as well as there being a Superboy with the legion. Much as i love the legion, it isn't Legion without Superboy.
After all, it is a classic origin, based on a Superboy story.
Superman was never my favorite, but for some reason, Superboy seemed like a completely different character, and one that, while not my favorite, worked in the context of the Legion.
I meant in the sense that Krypto was fine at that time. But nowadays, it is simply an exercice in nostalgia. It worked wonderfully with Alan Moore but it simply doesn't work that nice in a monthly these days. I do agree Superboy is part of the Legion and a source of inspiration, but it never had to have Superboy to be a Legion book. I think the 3 founders are much more important to the book, in fact. And all this return to Silver Age Superman (and Silver Age Legion in fact) makes me wonder how Legion would be better off if creators had free reign on it like Johns seems to have with the Superman franchise.
Posted by Chemical King on :
quote:Originally posted by matlock: If memory serves I think part of Byrne's rationale was also that because we know that Superboy grows up to become Superman then any Superboy story inherently lacks tension because he's in no real jeapardy.
That's a feeble argument as far as I'm concerned... Byrne did not have to care about those old Superboy stories. if he felt they lacked tension, he could have simply let them be and never have told another Superboy story again. It's not necessary to erase every story which doesn't have enough tension...
Posted by Set on :
That argument holds true of every main character, ever. The Death of Superman lacked tension, because we knew in our bones it wouldn't last. The Death of Batman? Same thing. The Death of Captain America? Same thing.
If someone like Halo, of the Outsiders, dies, *that* might actually last awhile, but even then, even tertiary characters like Spider-Man's 30 years dead uncle, tend to show back up eventually when someone gets a hankering to write about them.
No tension? Bah. Lame upon lame.
He could have added *tons* of tension by having Byrne Superman *not remember ever having been Superboy* and left those Superboy adventures alone, so that anyone reading those tales is left wondering what happened. Was it a mind wipe thing? Or is present-day Superman a totally different person than the silver age Superboy (which means that 'Superboy' is doomed!)? Drama!
Posted by jimgallagher on :
Yeah, they really screwed the pooch with the whole Crisis. They basically wanted to start over fresh with Wonder Woman and Superman, so they erased their past, apparently not considering the trickle down effect it would have. First Superboy and Supergirl had to be erased, causing the creation of the pocket universe fiasco. Then Wonder Girl's ties to Wonder Woman and the Amazons were severed, so they had to rewrite her origin. Then those changes trickled down to affect the Legion, Titans and Justice League, so their origins and histories all had to be rewritten. Laurel Gand had to be created to sub for Supergirl, Mon-El had to become Valor and sub for Superboy as the LSH's inspiration. Then Wonder Girl had to have a new origin, which affected the Titans origin. Then the Justice League had to have a new origin and Black Canary had to sub for Wonder Woman as a founding member . . . On and on and on. WTF were they thinking?!@!! All this just to freshen up Superman and Wonder Woman who they thought had gotten stale. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, people!
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Well, at least they aren't approaching the current round of retcons in such a haphazard ill-thought out fashion! Posted by matlock on :
See, I knew if I put the "no tension" rationale out there my fellow Legionworlders would rise to the occasion and point out how lame it was. That way I didn't have to do it myself. Though I would add that I don't see how "dramatic tension" equals "mortal peril."
I wonder what other creepy add-ons we can look forward to during our next peek at the faux Adventure era. I'm still a bit annoyed by the notion of Saturn Girl snooping in applicant's minds I guess.
Posted by doublechinner on :
First, that's not Kathy Lee Gifford, that's Six, from Battlestar Galactica, and that takes the "what's her unseen hand doing?" question to a WHOLE new level.
Second, the Superboy-never-in-jeopardy rationale. I always thought that was the ONE thing the Legion did for Superboy. You take Clark into the future, you are tampering with the timeline, and risking the worst paradox in history, if you allow he who will be Superman to die in the future before he's actually lived to become the greatest hero in the Universe.
It seems pretty likely that the "twist" will be, as in the animated show, that Clark is only "Superboy" in the future. And that seems about right. Clark is learning how to be history's greatest hero in the future from kids who were inspired by him to become heroes themselves. It's a sort of positive feedback loop paradox, rather than a negative one.
And FWIW, I agree that Superman bursting on the scene as the first new superhero in generations is really preferable to Superboy in training pants for years in Smallville. As I've written before, I think Superboy and Superman, were, in the Silver Age, 2 separate characters from a practical point of view, because, outside the one-off "secret origins," you never saw Clark really changing from boy to man, grieving the loss of his parents, making a new life in Metropolis, leaving the Legion mostly behind like your best friends from high school when you go to college out of state and never move back home. The 2 characters always existed in these separate, almost parallel, narrative arcs. SuperBOY's Smallville never really made it out of the 1920s, even as SuperMAN's life lurched into contemporary modernity in the 1970s.
I'll always feel that Levitz held this view too, and that's what led to the Pocket Universe/Death of Superboy stories evolving as they did. Also, I don't think it is a coincidence that Johns's "Secret Origin" seems very much a story of Clark's transformation into the adult Superman. Johns's use of the Legion thus far clearly indicates that, while a critical stage of Superman's development, they ARE a stage more than a destination. They saved Clark from a potentially catastrophic adolescent alienation phase, and taught him to wear his underwear as "overwear" without embarassment, and gave him a future legacy and direction for which to strive.
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
The "Hulk" I believe is the current version of Bizarro.
Posted by Arm Fall Off Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by doublechinner: First, that's not Kathy Lee Gifford, that's Six, from Battlestar Galactica, and that takes the "what's her unseen hand doing?" question to a WHOLE new level.
You beat me to the Bizarro thing, Nightcrawler. There are no Doomsday-like bony protrusions, and besides, I think some Kandorians kill him in the current Superman mags.
Posted by Kent Shakespeare on :
quote:Originally posted by Chemical King:
quote:Originally posted by matlock: If memory serves I think part of Byrne's rationale was also that because we know that Superboy grows up to become Superman then any Superboy story inherently lacks tension because he's in no real jeapardy.
That's a feeble argument as far as I'm concerned... Byrne did not have to care about those old Superboy stories. if he felt they lacked tension, he could have simply let them be and never have told another Superboy story again. It's not necessary to erase every story which doesn't have enough tension...
In the early 80s, there was a Superboy ad billed as "the making of a legend!" With that phrase, I realized everything wrong with Superboy as a regular seies: was about nothing of the sort, it was a wasted premise.
Rather than exploring how young Kal grew up, it became a sitcom with bad jokes. Episodes were interchangeable with no character development, character conflict was essentially absent - and numerous Supermanic elements (defending the secret ID, giant robots/aliens/supervillains) took precedence. Anyone connected with Superboy recalled how cruel a place high school could be (especially to the 'mild-mannered,' especially to kids whose wardrobe lacked any diversity whatsoever). Even the one element that could have been explored - his falling out with Lex - was generally taken as a given.
It could have been about a young Kal coming to terms with his powers, who he really was, and the agony of having to voluntarily join the lower caste of high school. That young Clark never made mistakes, never acted out, never did anything remotely teen-like, and that nothing but perfect harmony ever existed with the Kents made it a sad cardboard cutout of what it could have been (Smallville, in other words).
I agree with Doub that the Legion was a vital niche for Superboy. It was the only avenue to do anything fresh and meaningful with him.
Posted by Kent Shakespeare on :
I prefer Kal not appearing in costume until being Superman - it adds that much more weight to his first appearance (one thing Byrne and the Reeve movie did well). A costumed teen in a small town stands out like a sore thumb. To me, ideally, a teen Superboy limited his costuming to the future (a la the cartoon, from what I've seen of it). A costume in Smallville takes away from the character-building and only adds to the teen-secret-ID stories that seemed worn out by the 70s.
Posted by future king on :
quote:Originally posted by Kent Shakespeare: I prefer Kal not appearing in costume until being Superman - it adds that much more weight to his first appearance (one thing Byrne and the Reeve movie did well). A costumed teen in a small town stands out like a sore thumb. To me, ideally, a teen Superboy limited his costuming to the future (a la the cartoon, from what I've seen of it). A costume in Smallville takes away from the character-building and only adds to the teen-secret-ID stories that seemed worn out by the 70s.
I agree with you 100% on this point Kent. I rather like the fact that Clark is taking his time in his teen years growing slowly into the hero he will one day become. But if he feels like flying around in the 31st century wearing a red and blue costume from time to time, hey who are we to complain, right? Best of both worlds.
Posted by Kid Quislet on :
Legion references in the cover art:
In regard to the pickup truck: "Little do they suspect the pickup truck is... ME, Chameleon Boy!"
In regard to the Hulk: That is actually the first meeting with "The Boy with Ultra Powers" after Jo's wild night out drinking in the SoHo sector (note the Kitson-esque hair!)
Really!
Posted by doublechinner on :
OMG! I wrote "Kathy Lee Gifford"!?!? It will take many hours of meditation to cleanse the distaste of that slip from my subconsious.
But I still think Saturn Girl is Six, not Crosby.
Posted by Zero Kahn on :
I always thought Superboy running around Smallville was dumb so I was happy when Byrne got rid of that bit. In all honesty Superman needed the Man of Steel reboot in the 80's. The character had just been so bogged down with so much useless stuff that it was pretty much buried in crap with no way out except a total reboot. I do think so parts of it could have been handled better, but it was definetly needed.
I really like the angle Johns has gone with in regards to Superman and the Legion in that he did wear the costume when he was young, but only did it when he was in the future hanging out with the Legion.
If only Byrne had thought of that all those years ago we could have all be saved alot of grife.
Posted by Triplicate Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by doublechinner: And FWIW, I agree that Superman bursting on the scene as the first new superhero in generations is really preferable to Superboy in training pants for years in Smallville.
In the Post-Crisis universe, Superman was merely the powerful new guy joining the crowd. There weren't just Golden Age heroes. To start from the top, Batman was older than Superman and had been active for a few years before him.
quote:As I've written before, I think Superboy and Superman, were, in the Silver Age, 2 separate characters from a practical point of view, because, outside the one-off "secret origins," you never saw Clark really changing from boy to man, grieving the loss of his parents, making a new life in Metropolis, leaving the Legion mostly behind like your best friends from high school when you go to college out of state and never move back home. The 2 characters always existed in these separate, almost parallel, narrative arcs.
This is why I was never interested in Superboy. There was this big gap in years between them, but they weren't that different. Superboy got involved in Superman-style adventures. What was the point in having the separate characters? What was the dramatic significance of the change from Superboy to Superman?
quote:SuperBOY's Smallville never really made it out of the 1920s, even as SuperMAN's life lurched into contemporary modernity in the 1970s.
Technically, in the early Silver Age, Superboy stories took place in the 1930s. Then when they decided Superman was in his 20s, not his 40s (this was a really significant point - why is it not widely documented when it happened?), they moved Superboy stories up to the 50s. Smallville never experienced WW2. Thus, it remained stuck in an idealized past. I've held for a long time that the reason Superboy was seen as dated was the sliding timeline. By the late 70s, Superboy stories would take place in the 60s. Smallville wasn't designed to tell stories in the social revolution of the 60s.
Posted by Tromium on :
quote:Originally posted by Zero Kahn: I really like the angle Johns has gone with in regards to Superman and the Legion in that he did wear the costume when he was young, but only did it when he was in the future hanging out with the Legion.
If only Byrne had thought of that all those years ago we could have all be saved alot of grife.
Credit where credit is due. Geoff Johns is not the originator of this idea, and I wouldn't want anyone to mistakenly infer that he is. Johns "borrowed" it from much more fertile and original minds -- the creators of the cartoon Legion, James Tucker and company.
The idea the Legion trained and inspired young Clark to be Superman is theirs, too.
Posted by jimgallagher on :
I've only seen brief glimpses of the cartoon. Why do there appear to be 2 Superboys in them?
Posted by Phantom Girl on :
quote:Originally posted by jimgallagher: I've only seen brief glimpses of the cartoon. Why do there appear to be 2 Superboys in them?
One of them is the Superman that the show started out with, pretty much as per comics with the exception that they didn't use the name Superboy. The other Superman was from the Legion's future and if I recall correctly, had original Superman DNA put in him plus advances in science made him immune to kryptonite. He was created by these other creatures to battle the show's new villain, Imperiax, it was his soul reason for existance.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Darn it. I miss the cartoon. Even crappy future Superman got kind of interesting by the end.
Posted by Set on :
quote:Originally posted by Tromium: Credit where credit is due. Geoff Johns is not the originator of this idea, and I wouldn't want anyone to mistakenly infer that he is. Johns "borrowed" it from much more fertile and original minds -- the creators of the cartoon Legion, James Tucker and company.
The idea the Legion trained and inspired young Clark to be Superman is theirs, too.
Johns could sure do worse for inspiration as well. That cartoon really had some genius tucked away behind the silly pictures.
Posted by Arm Fall Off Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by Kent Shakespeare: It could have been about a young Kal coming to terms with his powers, who he really was, and the agony of having to voluntarily join the lower caste of high school. That young Clark never made mistakes, never acted out, never did anything remotely teen-like, and that nothing but perfect harmony ever existed with the Kents made it a sad cardboard cutout of what it could have been (Smallville, in other words).
I disagree somewhat on this. Smallville as a whole has been a favorite of mine--possibly I'm clinging to some faint hope of my Superboy hero from my youth. It has certainly had its ups and downs, and WAAAAAYYY too much Clark pining over Lana, and there were near whole seasons where I just wanted to go "GET OVER HER ALREADY!" But as a whole, I think that Clark onSmallville has certainly made his share of mistakes, that resulted, for instance, in Lana's death, which he then manages to undo, a la Lois in Superman : The Movie. This ultimately costs him a chance at saving Jonathan's life. He argued with Jonathan over playing football, wanting to fit in like other kids, to get the girl partially; he did rebel, albeit as a result of Red K; he gets caught sneaking a girl out of his room; there are other instances. My point is, this character is not perfect, and while he could be MUCH better (and actually is, IMO, this season), I wouldn't call him cardboard.
quote: Originally posted by Kent Shakespeare: I agree with Doub that the Legion was a vital niche for Superboy. It was the only avenue to do anything fresh and meaningful with him.
quote:Originally posted by Triplicate Kid: Technically, in the early Silver Age, Superboy stories took place in the 1930s. Then when they decided Superman was in his 20s, not his 40s (this was a really significant point - why is it not widely documented when it happened?), they moved Superboy stories up to the 50s. Smallville never experienced WW2. Thus, it remained stuck in an idealized past. I've held for a long time that the reason Superboy was seen as dated was the sliding timeline. By the late 70s, Superboy stories would take place in the 60s. Smallville wasn't designed to tell stories in the social revolution of the 60s.
These I have to agree with. As everyone knows, no era was perfect. There were kids having premarital sex in the 40's and 50's. Heck, my great-great grandparents got married 3 months before they had their first baby-in 1888! But what most wanted to see was the Happy Days style of life, and that's what we got in the Superboy comics. Honestly, I miss those, but I'm probably one of the few that does. I agree that Superboy needed a life, and the Legion provided that. I mean, super-powered girls had crushes on him! Who wouldn't like that? Everybody wants to belong, and with them, he did. Sorry for the marathon post.
Posted by Superboy-Supergirl on :
I loved the superboy comic of the early 80s It's in part what got me into the legion in the first place. I loved that smallville. Though they did need some color in it ROFL. SInce they never said where Smallville was exactly it could have been relatively isolated from intergration. And as are some small towns today relatively isolated from major social changes (Sexual revolution) till sometime later on.
Posted by Silver Age Lad on :
Superboy living in a small town in Kansas. One black haired adopted kid in town who just happens to move to Metropolis on the same day Superboy/man does. And no-one puts two and two together.
Only slightly less unbelievable than no-one noticing Superman/boy's costume under white shirts.
Posted by doublechinner on :
I love the white shirt point. Was there ever a "tailor to the super heroes" character at either Marvel or DC? If not, it would be a great story! Imagine a talented young Jewish tailor in New York City at the time of the Golden Age, who gets rediscovered as an old man by Superman--Wildcat or Hawkman gives Superman his business card. You'd want a good tailor not just for the superhero costume, but as much or more for the secret identity, as SA Lad indicates.
Posted by Kent Shakespeare on :
quote:Originally posted by Arm Fall Off Boy:
quote:Originally posted by Kent Shakespeare: It could have been about a young Kal coming to terms with his powers, who he really was, and the agony of having to voluntarily join the lower caste of high school. That young Clark never made mistakes, never acted out, never did anything remotely teen-like, and that nothing but perfect harmony ever existed with the Kents made it a sad cardboard cutout of what it could have been (Smallville, in other words).
I disagree somewhat on this. Smallville as a whole has been a favorite of mine--possibly I'm clinging to some faint hope of my Superboy hero from my youth. It has certainly had its ups and downs, and WAAAAAYYY too much Clark pining over Lana, and there were near whole seasons where I just wanted to go "GET OVER HER ALREADY!" But as a whole, I think that Clark onSmallville has certainly made his share of mistakes, that resulted, for instance, in Lana's death, which he then manages to undo, a la Lois in Superman : The Movie. This ultimately costs him a chance at saving Jonathan's life. He argued with Jonathan over playing football, wanting to fit in like other kids, to get the girl partially; he did rebel, albeit as a result of Red K; he gets caught sneaking a girl out of his room; there are other instances. My point is, this character is not perfect, and while he could be MUCH better (and actually is, IMO, this season), I wouldn't call him cardboard.
I do believe you misinterpreted me.
I held out Smallville as an example of what the Superboy comic should have been. The comic is what I was calling cardboard - not the TV show (while I haven't seen all of it, I've loved all of it except the Lana-as-reincarnated-witch bit).
That the Clark of TV could make mistakes is exactly what I mean - the comic-book Superboy essentially never could.
Posted by stephbarton on :
I have to agree with some of you, I never liked Superboy stories, that always seemed to be simply Superman stories in Smallville (Lana is trying to figure out his ID, Lois is trying to figure out his ID, Clark as a teen is seen as weak, Clark as an adult is seen as weak, etc.)
But I LOVE the Superboy in two instances (and only two). I LOVE Superboy in the Legion. I like the idea that he inspires the Legion, not to be a hero as an adult (like Superman would) but rather that as a TEENAGER they can be great heroes. To me that original inspiration story is stronger than the Legion trains him to be a hero, because I think it is cool that they see him as a GREAT hero while he is their peer.
But I also admit that having him operate out of Smallville and then appear in Metropolis and all that is buckum, so as continuity has become more important to fans, the original version simply isn't viable so we have to go with the cartoon solution as the marriage between two ideas (Superman comes out of the blue to Metropolis, no one knows of a Superboy and the Legion and Superboy should be linked).
The other idea I like about Superboy is when he confronts the Phantom Zone criminals (and even Dev-Em). For someone who finds out he is an alien and then discovers the only living remnants of his home culture (besides his dog) are all mass murders and one punk. I mean, that's like discovering you're German (and assuming Germany no longer exists) and then meeting a group of Nazis. The worse part of your homeland's is all that survives (or is alive). I always thought that was awesome for a teenager who (I think) just recently discovered he was from an alien culture and then meeting the worse part of that culture when he is still yearning for knowledge about where he's from. I think SUPERBOY would feel those emotions much more keenly than an adult SUPERMAN ever could.
Anyways, the rest of the Superboy stories I could throw out and never think about again, they were just Superman stories but with a different supporting cast. But the Legion and the Phantom Zone criminals are really made special by Superboy and really make Superboy special.
Posted by jimgallagher on :
quote:Originally posted by Phantom Girl:
quote:Originally posted by jimgallagher: I've only seen brief glimpses of the cartoon. Why do there appear to be 2 Superboys in them?
One of them is the Superman that the show started out with, pretty much as per comics with the exception that they didn't use the name Superboy. The other Superman was from the Legion's future and if I recall correctly, had original Superman DNA put in him plus advances in science made him immune to kryptonite. He was created by these other creatures to battle the show's new villain, Imperiax, it was his soul reason for existance.
Thanks for the answer, but I don't get it. What's the point of putting 2 Supermen in the Legion at once? Isn't it confusing enough with all the reboot versions? What do they call them? Superman 1 and Superman 2?
Posted by Phantom Girl on :
quote:Originally posted by jimgallagher:
quote:Originally posted by Phantom Girl:
quote:Originally posted by jimgallagher: I've only seen brief glimpses of the cartoon. Why do there appear to be 2 Superboys in them?
One of them is the Superman that the show started out with, pretty much as per comics with the exception that they didn't use the name Superboy. The other Superman was from the Legion's future and if I recall correctly, had original Superman DNA put in him plus advances in science made him immune to kryptonite. He was created by these other creatures to battle the show's new villain, Imperiax, it was his soul reason for existance.
Thanks for the answer, but I don't get it. What's the point of putting 2 Supermen in the Legion at once? Isn't it confusing enough with all the reboot versions? What do they call them? Superman 1 and Superman 2?
I found this on Wikipedia, it may or may not be what your looking for. but it does explain a bit about the cartoon version of Imperiax and the 41st century Superman. I know they injected some humor into the cartoon by having both Superman characters answer in unison to the name "Superman". Each was given a distictive personality as well. Personally, I didn't care for the 41st century Superman at all, and until recently I thought Imperiax was a character made up for the cartoon. Turns out he is actually a DC villain. They drew them differently as well so telling the the characters apart was easy. They really were two different people from head to toe, the only thing they had in common was the Superman DNA. Even the powers had differences. Anyway, here's what the Wikipedia said:
Imperiex appears in the Legion of Super Heroes animated series, voiced by Phil Morris. [2] The character was deemed to be a big enough threat to be used as the primary villain for the entire second season, but enough of a blank slate that his "real" DC Universe history could be modified for the TV version. [3] In the show, Imperiex was originally an alien (presumably from the planet Apokolips) raised in a gladiator lifestyle; over time his body was modified by the technology created by a scientist named Abel that allowed a perfect union of organic tissue and cybernetics. In the 41st century, Imperiex has wiped out nearly all resistance that stands in his way, with a only a clone of Superman named Kell-El left to oppose him. Unable to stop Imperiex and his army, Kell-El travels back to the 31st century to recruit the Legion of Superheroes to help stop Imperiex. Although Brainiac 5 comes up with a plan that appears to stop him by taking advantage of his weakpoint, Imperiex is able to take the device Kell-El used to travel through time to escape to the Legion's timeline. After escaping to the 31st century, Imperiex secretly frees the Fatal Five and the Legion of Super-Villains from prison, recruiting Validus. He hacks into Computo, downloading information about the Legion's arsenal at the time as well as acquiring some data that he offers to the Dominion. Outside of Validus, the Dominion, and his Destructo-Bots, Imperiex works with and recruits villains such as Mekt Ranzz, Ron-Karr, and Grimbor the Chainsman to aid him, although he was perplexed by those villains who left him. In "Unnatural Alliances," the cybernetic villain Terra-Man was targeting a younger Abel which Imperiex wouldn't allow. In the final fight with Terra Man, Superman X and Imperiex worked together to destroy Terra Man. In "Message in a Bottle," Imperiex and his armies invade the Fortress of Solitude so he can steal "The Messenger" from the shrunken city of Kandor. Brainiac 5 was forced to tap into his ancestor's knowledge and used it to turn the sun yellow, the Kandorians managed to fight back and caused Imperiex's army to retreat. However, Imperiex intended Brainiac 5 to do that in order for him to become a ideal member of his campaign. Unfortunately, Imperiex ends up being impaled and killed by Brainiac 1.0 (in Brainiac 5's body), who thanked him for his part.
As opposed to his comic-book incarnation, this Imperiex instead relies on physical, direct combat. He is stronger than Superman, and is virtually indestructible. The only time that he is vulnerable is when he uses a cannon mounted in his chest, which is also his most powerful weapon. In addition, he wields a pair of powerful swords that can fire out waves of energy. He is also exceptionally intelligent and cunning.
Posted by Kent Shakespeare on :
quote:Originally posted by stephbarton: I have to agree with some of you, I never liked Superboy stories, that always seemed to be simply Superman stories in Smallville (Lana is trying to figure out his ID, Lois is trying to figure out his ID, Clark as a teen is seen as weak, Clark as an adult is seen as weak, etc.)
But I LOVE the Superboy in two instances (and only two). I LOVE Superboy in the Legion. I like the idea that he inspires the Legion, not to be a hero as an adult (like Superman would) but rather that as a TEENAGER they can be great heroes. To me that original inspiration story is stronger than the Legion trains him to be a hero, because I think it is cool that they see him as a GREAT hero while he is their peer.
But I also admit that having him operate out of Smallville and then appear in Metropolis and all that is buckum, so as continuity has become more important to fans, the original version simply isn't viable so we have to go with the cartoon solution as the marriage between two ideas (Superman comes out of the blue to Metropolis, no one knows of a Superboy and the Legion and Superboy should be linked).
The other idea I like about Superboy is when he confronts the Phantom Zone criminals (and even Dev-Em). For someone who finds out he is an alien and then discovers the only living remnants of his home culture (besides his dog) are all mass murders and one punk. I mean, that's like discovering you're German (and assuming Germany no longer exists) and then meeting a group of Nazis. The worse part of your homeland's is all that survives (or is alive). I always thought that was awesome for a teenager who (I think) just recently discovered he was from an alien culture and then meeting the worse part of that culture when he is still yearning for knowledge about where he's from. I think SUPERBOY would feel those emotions much more keenly than an adult SUPERMAN ever could.
Anyways, the rest of the Superboy stories I could throw out and never think about again, they were just Superman stories but with a different supporting cast. But the Legion and the Phantom Zone criminals are really made special by Superboy and really make Superboy special.
I largely agree, and love the Nazi angle.
By the 70s, Superboy had machines and things to actualyl help him recall life on Krypton. It would be a lot more powerful and tragic if he had to rely solely on what the villains are willing to share (and opens the door to neat maniuplation stories).
Posted by duck458 on :
Nice covers. Can I ask a stoopid question, what up with this Secret Origins business and will the LSH get one?
Posted by stephbarton on :
Honestly, not sure.
I know Geoff Johns said in an interview that he liked the old Secret Orgins stuff of DC and wanted to bring it back.
But I also think a lot of fans have been asking (at conventions and such) for a definative Superman orgin for the "New Earth" history, but DC kept saying they weren't in any hurry. So either they were waiting for the right pitch or Johns gets to do whatever he wants.
I'm more interested to know if it will be a simple orgin story or if it will be like GL: Secret Orgin and really be more about setting up a future story.
Posted by Candle on :
quote:Originally posted by doublechinner: OMG! I wrote "Kathy Lee Gifford"!?!? It will take many hours of meditation to cleanse the distaste of that slip from my subconsious.
But I still think Saturn Girl is Six, not Crosby.
I don't know who Six from Battlestar Galactica is ~ Starbuck? or the one played by Lawless (Xena)? At first I thought you ment 7 from Voyager!
I think she looks like an early version of Sam from SG 1. But I tend to see all the versions of Imra as based on Amanda Tapping. lol
About Byrne ~ I thought I read somewhere that DC wanted all of the Krypton types gone from Supes history becouse they watered down the concept. Thus they were all erased. (I agree about all the other stuff mentioned, too ~ the excess 'stuff' and the sliding thing. ) I also remember about the original Superman needing to be depowered so there could be more types of villians with a chance to defeat him.
I also got the feeling that having Clark be genetically powerless as an infant ment that there was a possiblity that he could father a child with a human (Lois) without the pregnacy killing her, i.e. a kicking fetus.
Anyway, the new artist looks great, to me. I just hope we see something of the other boots, a few surprised to a too old set of characters and stories. I just crave something new.
Posted by Kent Shakespeare on :
Six from BSG is the blonde one sees on the DVD covers and many of the adds. Not Starbuck (a differnet blonde) or Lawless.
Posted by Arm Fall Off Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by Kent Shakespeare: I do believe you misinterpreted me.
I held out Smallville as an example of what the Superboy comic should have been. The comic is what I was calling cardboard - not the TV show (while I haven't seen all of it, I've loved all of it except the Lana-as-reincarnated-witch bit).
That the Clark of TV could make mistakes is exactly what I mean - the comic-book Superboy essentially never could.
Sorry I did that. That's one bad thing about boards-you can't hear any inflection and may misinterpret. Sorry! If any of you haven't watched this season, it's not bad!
Posted by Chemical King on :
quote:Originally posted by Kent Shakespeare: Six from BSG is the blonde one sees on the DVD covers and many of the adds. Not Starbuck (a differnet blonde) or Lawless.
Six is definitely NOT Saturn Girl in my book - she is much too old to be a "teenager from the future". Or at least she looks too old. I just don't like her face. I'm much more into Boomer
Somewhere I got a photo manipulation of Scarlet Johannson as Saturn Girl. Now THAT is a perfect fit in my eyes Posted by Set on :
quote:Originally posted by Chemical King: Six is definitely NOT Saturn Girl in my book - she is much too old to be a "teenager from the future". [snip] I just don't like her face. I'm much more into Boomer
For an adult 'Ironbutt' Imra, Lucy Lawless has a pretty awesome look in that show. I could totally see her making it work. (Then again, she might be an even better Emma Frost...)
(Tricia Halford is a man in a dress. How she got turned into a sex symbol, I have no idea. Why do they keep dressing her in open-fronted braless dresses that show off her saggy chesticles and protruding ribs? Ugh.)
Now the ep with the entire base-ship full of nekkid Boomers? That was like the Cylon Ship O' Paradise!
Posted by Candle on :
quote:If any of you haven't watched this season, it's not bad!
I've really enjoyed the last few seasons. I know people want him to 'get over' Lana but I think that sometimes first (and often greatest) loves hang around for a very long time.
Storywise, the idea kind of keeps the Lois relationship in check, at least for awhile. bleccccc
It also serves to keep him out of all the other women's clutches, so he can meet a Maxima but feel no real attraction. A lost love might be blamed for Kal not becoming a 'swinger' like his pal Oliver Queen, too.
On another point brought up here, 'Smallville' has always used the movie version of Krypton and the Fortress. The whole concept is so visually beautiful and alien, cold and quietly powerful, lifeless but not lightless. The idea of memory crystals was even used for LSH at one time. The covers show the contrast between the worlds and families just wonderfully, I think.
I rather love the whole concept.
Posted by Arm Fall Off Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by Set: (Tricia Halford is a man in a dress. How she got turned into a sex symbol, I have no idea. Why do they keep dressing her in open-fronted braless dresses that show off her saggy chesticles and protruding ribs? Ugh.)
Now the ep with the entire base-ship full of nekkid Boomers? That was like the Cylon Ship O' Paradise!
You mean this man? I really don't know the show, but that's a good looking man.
Posted by future king on :
quote:Originally posted by Arm Fall Off Boy:
quote:Originally posted by Set: (Tricia Halford is a man in a dress. How she got turned into a sex symbol, I have no idea. Why do they keep dressing her in open-fronted braless dresses that show off her saggy chesticles and protruding ribs? Ugh.)
Now the ep with the entire base-ship full of nekkid Boomers? That was like the Cylon Ship O' Paradise!
You mean this man? I really don't know the show, but that's a good looking man.
LOL... Arm, that was too rich! Here, here!!!! Tricia Helfer never looked better. And she's a damn fine Canadian actress to boot. Thanks for the pic! Posted by Kent Shakespeare on :
Having seen her in person a couple times, I'd never mistake her for a man.
She'd never be my choice for Imra (from the pics I think the coming ep did a good job).
Lucy L as an older Imra is intriguing.
Posted by Set on :
quote:Originally posted by Kent Shakespeare: Having seen her in person a couple times, I'd never mistake her for a man.
I saw her at a convention, as well. She's much better looking in person than she is on BSG, where's she's all sag and bones. I think it's the awful clothing they put her in, actually.
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
I'm going to split out the Smallville posts and put them in the Smallville thread where they belong by tomorrow...cause this one is getting confusing.
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