I loved the notion of the Espionage Squad (when did we last see them in action?), and had similar line-ups for specific types of missions.
You had the Powerhouses (Superboy, Mon-El, Ultra Boy), the Commandos (Lone Wolf, Karate Kid, Blok, Ferro Lad) and the Elementals (Light Lass, Element Lad, Chemical King, Sun Boy, Lighting Lad, Braniac-5, White WItch).
But what happens when a generic "Help" message comes in to LSH-HQ? How do you pick and choose a team to respond?
How would you compose a generic team, assuming everyone was available? (And knowing there'd probably be another generic "Help" received in the near future?)
Posted by Quislet, Esq. on :
Well, from the old Adventure story where Sun Boy gets Space Fatigue, I would assume there is a roster of those who have and haven't gone on missions. And those selected have reached the top of the list. The roster would be subject to exceptions, such as if the call came from Imsk and Shrinking Violet was not at the top, she would be sent just for being a native of the planet. Likewise, if a particular power were needed, say the distress call came from a heavy gravity planet, you'd want to include Light Lass.
A related question would be who decides how many Legionnaires respond to a particular call for help?
Posted by Not-So-Bad Lad on :
It seemed like the elected leader was always the one who delegated, and wouldn't the number/power levels be based on necessity? It would seem like the leader would gauge the situation and respond with a reasonable number of Legionnaires. It never seemed, however, that they would send more than five or six at a time, tops, unless the situation was just massively screwed.
Examples:
"The Fatal Five are loose!" Okay, send Mon-El, Superboy, Ultra Boy, Wildfire, and Element Lad
"Doctor Regulus is knocking over a bank!" Okay, send Cosmic Boy, Sun Boy, Colossal Boy, and Ferro Lad
"Space Bandits are holding up a starship!" Okay, send Shrinking Violet, Matter-Eater Lad, Dream Girl, and Bouncing Boy
I think the whole "five or less" thing made sure that there were always more legionnaires on standby, just in case another crisis arose in the interim.
Posted by Not-So-Bad Lad on :
On a note related to the Espionage Squad, I always wanted to see a Goodwill/Diplomat Legionnaire core consisting of Tenzil, Nura, and Chuck. They'd still be active Legionnaires, and they'd still see action, but their primary goal would be conflict resolution as backed representatives of the U.P. . You can't tell me that the idea of Matter-Eater Lad going all Kissinger on the Brain-Globes of Rambat doesn't at least bring a grin to your face. Posted by Asteroid Al on :
quote:Originally posted by Quislet, Esq.: Well, from the old Adventure story where Sun Boy gets Space Fatigue, I would assume there is a roster of those who have and haven't gone on missions.
A very Silver Age-y answer; thanks. I always wondered "Why didn't they send a Powerhouse, an Elemental, a member of the Espionage Squad, and two people for a character development subplot?".
Posted by Asteroid Al on :
quote:Originally posted by Not-So-Bad Lad: On a note related to the Espionage Squad, I always wanted to see a Goodwill/Diplomat Legionnaire core consisting of Tenzil, Nura, and Chuck.
I like that! Toss in Gim (his Mom used to be Up President in an alternate reality) and Princess Projectra (before she became a kleptomaniac).
Why shouldn't the Legion try to solve matters diplomatically first? (Then I remember: the Khunds think of all-out war as diplomacy...]
Posted by Not-So-Bad Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Asteroid Al: A very Silver Age-y answer; thanks. I always wondered "Why didn't they send a Powerhouse, an Elemental, a member of the Espionage Squad, and two people for a character development subplot?".
Because that would make far too much sense.
Posted by MLLASH on :
It's an interesting question, and something we've seen only rarely in the book's fistory.
One could assume that in the Silver Age, the Planetary Chance Machine might have played a role in choosing, as long as the crisis wasn't so dire as to not allow enough time for the team to sit around and have a machine hurl tiny replicas of planets at them.
We did see Wildfire use a computer to randomly pick which members would go on the mission to avenge Chemical King's death (and iirc, we later learned that he had used his powers to secretly override the machine and make sure himself, Dawnstar, Superboy, Mon-El and Timber Wolf were chosen).
Chameleon Boy hand-picked Violet (being 'played' by Yera at the time) and Timber Wolf to accompany him to Khundia.
During the "Who is Sensor Girl" finale, once the team was finally able to locate the missing members, Wildfire and Dawnstar-- the two fastest, one assumes-- were sent to the rescue, and arrived in the barest nick of time.
But most of the time, we never see the process in action, just a team of Legionnaires arriving on the scene.
One would think with a precog on the team, the leader might seek her advice on who to send on what missions. I certainly would. "Run this past Dream Girl-- does she foresee the need for any changes?"... that sorta thing. Can't hurt to ask.
Posted by MLLASH on :
Nothing kills a thread like the word "fistory"...
Posted by Emily Sivana on :
I personally feel that the LSH along with the other major DCU teams are unbalanced in terms of power. I think the LSH have more Elementals than nessecary, which is why I embrace the new members. I dislike the Legion's policy of only allowing in members that have super powers. I also like a variety of personalities and skill-sets, and this is probably the effect of Japanese pop culture on my childhood.
1. Polar Boy- An Elemental and effective leader. He also has an interesting personality and ambition that is different from Cosmic Boy's. 2. Brainiac 5- I think technology is more worthwhile than telepathy. Whenever you chose a telepath in a tournament game, the first thing everyone else does is choose a telepath or build anti-telepathy devices. 3. Karate Kid- A fighter is nessecary on a team, they can pull off surprises. 4. Mysa- An experianced magic user is a must. 5. Blok- Every team needs a super-strong member, and an established couple makes for great drama.
Posted by Set on :
I pick the ones I want to use in the narrative, for a pure storytelling situation (my Tryouts fics, for instance), or one's whose personalities (or powers) feel complementary / synergistic, for one with more action.
For instance, if Mon-El is going to be in a story, I don't want Ultra Boy there, because he's just 'Mon-El light.' A team with Lightning Lad, Lightning Lass and Sun Boy on it is going to feel a bit 'blaster-heavy,' like a Fantastic Four team that has three Human Torches. I wouldn't want to use Timber Wolf and Karate Kid in the same story, because they both cover the same raw acrobatic physicality, and I want the characters I'm using to have different 'visual' style, and not be too similar.
Somebody should have some powerful sensory descriptiveness, whether it be Sensor Girl or Saturn Girl or Tellus or Dream Girl. Somebody should have a powerful muscular feel, or a strong sense of kinetic / athletic motion, such as Timber Wolf or Karate Kid, or Dawnstar or XS. Somebody should have a dynamic energy-blasting power, like Lightning Lass or Sun Boy or Wildfire. Somebody should have something transformative, like Chameleon Boy, Shrinking Violet or Colossal Boy. Somebody should just be hard and unstoppable, like Blok, Ultra Boy or Mon-El.
It's horribly 'gamist,' but I prefer breaking the mission teams up into gangs of five or six, each with their own strong-guy, energy blaster, fast attacker, sensory/controller, etc.
The only time I want to see scenes with powerhouses travelling in a pack, or blasters back to back, is in one of those big end-of-arc 'Khund Wars' or 'Great Darkness Saga' sorts of tales, where the whole Legion is fighting on one battlefield.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
As far as numbers go, it seems to me that it would make sense to develop some fairly standard guidlines, like "distress call from starship, send three members" or "planetary invasion by the Khunds, send everyone available".
For fairly generic missions, it actually makes quite a bit of sense to me to just alternate who gets sent on missions, making obvious adjustments due to to expertise or that you don't send a team entirely composed of rookie members or something.
Posted by Kid Quislet on :
quote:Originally posted by MLLASH: Nothing kills a thread like the word "fistory"...
"Fistory" is a fantastic word! (Although, you are the only person I think who has ever used it, and possibly Charles Nelson Reilly but in a different context).
Posted by Kid Quislet on :
If you're Cary Bates, you send out four or five or maybe six but that's it because there are too many damn Legionnaires!!! [Editor note to Cary Bates - don't piss off Curt Swan, please...]
Posted by MLLASH on :
EDE and Cramey also used fistory in posts, showing that they, like you, recognize and celebrate cool stuff! Posted by Candlelight on :
I actually like groupings of the same power, sometimes, depending on the situation. For example, Garth diverting lightning blasts from Mekt to a grounded tower of some sort while Ayla directs lightning from herself, augmented by the tower energy, at a small fleet of technos advancing on the civilians; or Mysa and Glorith doing different parts of a spell to create a finihed defense or attack of some sort.
Although, in the new poll, I DID try to come up with a power rounded team Leadership styles and abilities were also factors.
Posted by Invisible Brainiac on :
quote:Originally posted by Not-So-Bad Lad: On a note related to the Espionage Squad, I always wanted to see a Goodwill/Diplomat Legionnaire core consisting of Tenzil, Nura, and Chuck. They'd still be active Legionnaires, and they'd still see action, but their primary goal would be conflict resolution as backed representatives of the U.P. . You can't tell me that the idea of Matter-Eater Lad going all Kissinger on the Brain-Globes of Rambat doesn't at least bring a grin to your face.
This sounds like an awesome idea that could make for some awesome stories!
For that matter, why couldn't the Legionnaires have different "specialties" of study - some would specialize in first contacts, others negotiations, maybe different languages, and so on.
Then when forming a team, consider sending a mix of experts and newer members interested in that area (along with considering powers, of course).
Example - storms on Winath. Besides native Ayla, maybe send along Nura (who dabbles in meteorology) and Jan (who's interested in further studying disaster management).
Or honor guard for RJ Brande while he negotiates with, say, Elia - send Reep (who's been studying the Dominator language) and Gates (who wants to learn it), alongside Imra (experienced negotiator) and Monstress (who wants to specialize in it).
Posted by razsolo on :
It's interesting looking at the way different people handle this question....Paul Levitz seems to have his definite favourite characters he relies on constantly, and other characters who are there for a specific reason and not really used otherwise. Glorith and Shrinking Violet for example have barely been used at all in the latest series, but you get the impression that there are specific stories just waiting for them to shine in...
Other writers choose powers that will be suitable for a specific mission, or a balance of power types..
My first priority when I am writing teams is to pick characters who will suit the current and long-term plot/subplots, or whose character development I can advance through the plot...a lot of the time I will base a whole adventure around spotlighting a couple of characters and/or furthering character development.
Second priority would be to pick characters who will have a moment to shine by doing something that they are uniquely suited to doing even if it's not necessary for the plot (eg: including Shadow Lass in a fight with the Emerald Eye because blanketing the Eye in darkness is an unusually effective use of her power)
Last on the list I guess is making for what I hope will be interesting/unusual group dynamics, and throwing in one or two characters that don't get much exposure. For my fanfic series I keep a list of how many times each Legionnaire has appeared in an instalment and I always try to make sure someone from the bottom ten is included in any mission...
Posted by Invisible Brainiac on :
quote:Originally posted by razsolo: For my fanfic series I keep a list of how many times each Legionnaire has appeared in an instalment and I always try to make sure someone from the bottom ten is included in any mission...
Two thumbs up! Wish all comics writers would do the same thing.
Posted by Set on :
One thing I've noticed recently while tooling around with my old fics and considering new ones is that I spend more time choosing Legionnaires based on personality than I do on powers (which totally contradicts what I said upthread!).
The Legion has a lot of 'alpha' personalities.
Drake, Dreamy, Cos and Brainy (and some interpretations of Brek and Projectra/Sensor) all seem to think that they know best, in any given situation, and, while less likely to attempt to take over a situation (or challenge leadership), characters like Garth, Violet, Dawnstar, Shady and Brin are prone to do whatever the hell they wanted to do anyway, while others, like Jan, Imra, Tinya and Val, seem consummate 'team players,' and Gim and Jo and Invisible Jacques seem more like 'good soldiers' who do what they are told and are less likely to seize the initiative or resist instructions.
Playing with established relationships (Mon and Jo's friendship, or Ayla and Violet's romantic relationship) is one fun factor, but it's also fun to pick Legionnaires based off of personalities or character pairings that *don't* get much screentime, like Ayla and Dawnstar or Timber Wolf and Element Lad, just to see how their interactions play out and if there's anything new to learn by seeing how they mesh with people they don't normally hang out with.
It's also fun to throw preferences to the wind, such as assembling a team of Tellus, Quislet, Matter-Eater Lad, Bouncing Boy and Duo Damsel, just as a challenge!
Posted by razsolo on :
quote:Originally posted by Set: Playing with established relationships (Mon and Jo's friendship, or Ayla and Violet's romantic relationship) is one fun factor, but it's also fun to pick Legionnaires based off of personalities or character pairings that *don't* get much screentime, like Ayla and Dawnstar or Timber Wolf and Element Lad, just to see how their interactions play out and if there's anything new to learn by seeing how they mesh with people they don't normally hang out with.
I wish we saw more of this in the book...it's good to see established relationships in the spotlight, but I think you can sometimes learn more about how characters work by throwing in the proverbial odd couple every now and then - back during that bland Durlan storyline from the last series, I liked seeing Shadow Lass and Dream Girl take on one of the Durlans together because I don't think I've ever seen them really interact in any meaningful way. They're similar in that they have very passive powers and kickass fighting skills, but personality-wise they are very different.
Star Boy and Comet Queen would be another interesting match, their personalities are at opposite ends of the spectrum, but she pretty much copied Thom's origin story for her own so I'd be interested seeing what he thinks about that.
Shrinking Violet and Glorith would be another interesting pair...Vi was in Glorith's shoes as the meek one of the team for ages, I wonder how they would get along with one another?
Posted by Set on :
quote:Originally posted by razsolo: I wish we saw more of this in the book...it's good to see established relationships in the spotlight, but I think you can sometimes learn more about how characters work by throwing in the proverbial odd couple every now and then - back during that bland Durlan storyline from the last series, I liked seeing Shadow Lass and Dream Girl take on one of the Durlans together because I don't think I've ever seen them really interact in any meaningful way. They're similar in that they have very passive powers and kickass fighting skills, but personality-wise they are very different.
Agreed. I mean, how much really is there to learn from seeing Drake and Dawny interacting with each other? I feel like we learned more about Drake from his interactions with the Legion Academy students, and that we'd learn more about Dawny if she interacted with pretty much anyone else, ever.
Breaking up couples (as recently happened with Mon and Shady) seems artificial and 'cheap,' but Tinya, Jo, Mon, Shady, Thom and Dirk have demonstrated that it is entirely possible to have relationships and *still* also have friendships outside of those relationships.
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
Interesting thoughts, Set.
Years ago, I created a series that never went anywhere, but it featured two characters with identical powers--just to see how their different personalities would handle the powers.
I think one thing that gets lost in super-hero comics is that readers want characters they can relate to (and characters relating to each other is half the fun). The super-powers can be almost anything. It's the personalities and relationships that will keep readers coming back.
Posted by Set on :
quote:Originally posted by He Who Wanders: Years ago, I created a series that never went anywhere, but it featured two characters with identical powers--just to see how their different personalities would handle the powers.
Yeah, that's a neat concept, and one that comics kind of end up doing every time they introduce a villain with Superman's powers or an 'evil Batman' type character, showcasing someone with pretty much the same powers, but a very different personality.
If Geoff Johns, who is not exactly my favorite writer ever, can manage to write dozens of distinctive characters who all have basically the ability to generate colored light constructs from their magic rings, I'm sure that a Garth and Ayla teamup (just to name one example) could function just fine, based on the very different personalities of those two.
quote: I think one thing that gets lost in super-hero comics is that readers want characters they can relate to (and characters relating to each other is half the fun). The super-powers can be almost anything. It's the personalities and relationships that will keep readers coming back.
Agreed. Spider Man and Wolverine aren't exactly powerhouses, and they remain very popular, because of their characterization and their interactions with others.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[sigh]](graemlins/sigh.gif)