the first DC panel, Countdown, is live right now and already some talks about the legion!
quote:Next question was about the various Legion continuities apparently running around currently - both in the Supergirl and the Legion of Super-Heroes title and the one in the "Lightning Saga" storyline. Marts said that some answers should be coming soon, and DiDio reminded the panel (and audience) that next year is the 50th anniversary of the Legion
And there is also this:
quote:A fan asked the relatively hard-hitting question "If you could take back one editorial or policy decision in DC's history, what would it be?" DiDio said the whole panel should answer the question - Marts said "crippling Barbara Gordon," Jurgens said taking Superboy out of the Legion of Super-Heroes, Calafiore jokingly said "The Black Racer is the dumbest looking character," McKeever said killing Conner Kent, Beechen agreed with Jurgens' answer, Bedard said separating the DC Universe and the Vertigo lines, Gray said "cancelled The Monolith," Palmiotti answered "cancelling 21 Down," Dini said "the cancellation of Plop," Carlin answered not re-staring Superman and Wonder Woman right after the first Crisis. DiDio didn't really answer.
Posted by Quislet, Esq. on :
Thanks for the update. Keep the news coming. Oh and enjoy the convention. Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
Awesome news thus far. Thanks.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
quote:“Can you tell us anything about what's going on with the Legion and the various versions running around?” asked another fan.
“There is a story to all the versions,” Mike Marts assured. “By this time next year you'll have a lot more clues as to what's happening.”
“Supergirl #21 and #22 touches on that,” Tony Bedard indicated.
quote:DiDio then indicated that all the Legion and other time-related mysterious in the DCU, including events surrounding Booster Gold, will all be explained in a “big Legion story” in the future.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Wait... by this time next year we'll have "more clues"...
So when exactly are we going to have the answer?
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
Geoff did say he was doing a Legion:Rebirth type story. I wonder if the Action arc is it or just leads into it.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: Wait... by this time next year we'll have "more clues"...
So when exactly are we going to have the answer?
I wondered the same thing. You'd think by SDCC next year everything would be set so we could celebrate the 50th. This makes it sounds like the 50th anniversary may only be the beginning.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
quote: COMIC-CON INTERNATIONAL: LEGION OF SUPER HEROES
Phil Morris is pulling double duty in the DC Universe on television this fall.
In additional to returning as Martian Manhunter in The CW's Smallville, Morris is providing the voice of Imperiex, the big villain, for the second season of Kids' WB!'s Legion of Super Heroes. Morris has also been reported as the voice of King Faraday in the Justice League: New Frontier direct-to-video movie.
A promotional card given away at the Warner Bros. booth at Comic-Com International provided cast details for Season 2 of Legion of Super Heroes, as well as a first look at two versions of Superman fighting Imperiex.
Yuri Lowenthal is providing voices for both versions Superman, described as Superman and Kal-El. One is a closed version of the original from the 41st Century.
Kari Wahlgren is returning as Saturn Girl, and she is also voicing Duo Damsel instead of Triplicate Girl. Somthing happens to the character early in Season 2.
Alex Polinsky is providing the voice of Chameleon Boy.
Morris, Polinsky and Lowenthal are scheduled to attend The Batman/Legion panel on Friday at Comic-Con, where footage from Season 2 will be shown.
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
"Kari Wahlgren is returning as Saturn Girl, and she is also voicing Duo Damsel instead of Triplicate Girl. Somthing happens to the character early in Season 2."
Can you say "Computo," boys and girls?
Interesting that there's no mention of Chuck. I guess we're not going to see more of his term as leader. Posted by Tromium on :
Oh, fer cryin' out loud.
They're going to drag this thing out until the conclusion of Final Crisis, aren't they? Sounds like the answer isn't as pure and simple as "the Multiverse" after all.
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
"They're going to drag this thing out until the conclusion of Final Crisis, aren't they? "
Why would they do otherwise? It's the 50th anniversary I would hope they'd aim high. Hitting the target is another story but I'm looking forward to riding the bullet.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Not me. Wake me up when the train reaches its destination. And then only if we arrive somewhere scenic and fun.
Posted by Matthew E on :
Let's keep our eyes on the prize. DC's just jerking us around with all this continuity stuff, and it's distracting us.
What we want right now is not answers to continuity questions. We can wait for those; they're not important and can be resolved anytime, or not at all.
What we want right now, and in the near future, and in the far future, is good comic books.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
The problem is jerking us around with continuity stuff is antithetical to good comic books, as far as I'm concerned.
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
It seems they are going to stretch many things out until Final Crisis. I've noticed little retcons here and there that I know won't be followed up on until then.
So no huge news at SD for the Legion I am guessing? Maybe some more info on the Action arc. Maybe they mention a mini with the LS Legion.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
I think Bedard said to expect an announcement for plans following his arc. So I assume we'll get some indication of the next creative team.
Posted by Lone Wolf Legionnaire on :
quote:
What we want right now, and in the near future, and in the far future, is good comic books.[/QB]
Yeah! using the True Legion of Super-Heroes from the Pre-Crisis DCU.
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
I went to the Teams Panel this evening and they barely mentioned the Legion in passing. (Of course I left halfway through due to boredom...).
Posted by Matthew E on :
quote:Originally posted by Lone Wolf Legionnaire:
quote:
What we want right now, and in the near future, and in the far future, is good comic books.
Yeah! using the True Legion of Super-Heroes from the Pre-Crisis DCU.[/QB]
No!
That is what you want. That is what some people want. It is only one of the (apparently mutually exclusive) things that I want. And it is not what some other people, who are just as much Legion fans as you are, want.
Please don't put your words in other people's mouths, unless you're saying something as trite and unarguable as the words that I put in other people's mouths.
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
Matthew, really you don't think the majority of people want that? You don't think that title will outsell any Legion DC has put out in over a decade?
I agree some people don't want that. But many more do. It's like Classic Coke and New Coke. Some people loved New Coke. Some.
Posted by Caliente on :
I disagree, Jorge. The threeboot legion is what brought me to the series in the first place. I know I'm not alone. It may not have been the right decision-- having the Legion rebooted and then rebooted again-- but it was done and undoing it would be as big a mistake, IMHO.
I may not know the Silver Age Legion that well, but what I do know is that I don't particularly care for it. It's unfair to compare the Legions that way because there are plenty of new readers (like me) who'd be really bummed out to see this version go the wayside.
How do you know that more people want the original Legion back? It could just be that those who want it back are the loudest of all the fans, possibly because they're so dissatisfied. Writing the Legion is daunting because nothing is ever going to please everyone.
There's truth in sales and obviously there was something about the original Legion that wasn't selling or they wouldn't have gotten rid of it in the first place. If they could sell it now, great. But getting rid of the new Legion-- my Legion-- would be a mistake and probably run off the newer Legion fans who don't know the history.
A reboot didn't fix it the first time. It didn't fix it the second time. I doubt wiping the slate clean would do it, either. The answer lies elsewhere... probably in writing good stories, like Matthew E said. And that can be done with any Legion... though I still hope it'll be mine.
[ July 26, 2007, 11:15 PM: Message edited by: Caliente ]
Posted by Lone Wolf Legionnaire on :
Sorry Dude did not meen to put words in your mouth I was agreeing with you on the good stories and putting my two cents in on what I want the Legion that stood the test of time for 30 years.
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
Caliente, I by no means want to get rid of any Legion. I am all for the multiverse.
If you really believe there is truth in sales than that is that. The silver age Legion NEVER sold as little as the Zero Hour Legion or the WaK Legion. I even think right before ZH the v4 Legion didn't sell that low.
And just because they are bringing back the old Legion doesn't mean the stories are going to automatically suck. Everyone wants a good story.
The minority is the loudest? You guys really think the PC Legion fans are a minority? You guys don't understand you are that loud minority? I'm sorry if I sound mean but I just can't fathom the PC Legion selling 30K a month.
Posted by Matthew E on :
quote:Originally posted by Ultra Jorge: Matthew, really you don't think the majority of people want that?
I don't know or care about the numbers. That's DC's problem, not mine. I just know it isn't unanimous.
This may be pretentious of me, or overdramatic, or something like that. But I'm trying to write my blog for all Legion fans, not just fans of this version or that. Therefore I want a solution to the Legion Problem that works for all Legion fans; I'd feel irresponsible advocating anything else. And one thing that I really don't like is when someone says that they want what they want and never mind what anybody else wants. (I don't think that this is what Lone Wolf Legionnaire was trying to say. I do think that it's an implication of how he said it, though, and that's why I responded strongly.)
I am much of Caliente's way of thinking as described in her last comment here. Although I don't insist that DC stick with the threeboot; I think they should go with whatever version makes the best commercial and artistic sense... but have the other versions available for use as appropriate. I don't think it's the best solution, but I think it's the best available solution.
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
Infact, I wouldn't mind if they announce a Legion Infinity title and each issue focuses on a different Legion. It's nothing against other Legions.
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
quote:Originally posted by Matthew E: [QUOTE]Although I don't insist that DC stick with the threeboot; I think they should go with whatever version makes the best commercial and artistic sense... but have the other versions available for use as appropriate. I don't think it's the best solution, but I think it's the best available solution.
And I totally agree with this one comment.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
quote:Originally posted by Ultra Jorge: Infact, I wouldn't mind if they announce a Legion Infinity title and each issue focuses on a different Legion. It's nothing against other Legions.
I actually think that might be the best available option at this point. A "Legion Classified" kind of title.
Honestly, while I tend to think a title featuring the pre-Crisis Legion would probably outsell the current title, I don't think it's going to sell that much, unless it's just All-Star Superman level good or they really make it central to the "Final Crisis" event or whatever (and I'm actually thinking fans are getting burnt out on events, so that might not help).
Posted by Matthew E on :
quote:Originally posted by Ultra Jorge: Infact, I wouldn't mind if they announce a Legion Infinity title and each issue focuses on a different Legion. It's nothing against other Legions.
I'd be okay with that, but:
1. I don't think it would work as the Legion's main title, because you wouldn't be able to tell real long-term stories the way they do these days.
2. It would work better as a secondary or companion title, like a Classified or something, but I'm not sure the market's there for a third monthly Legion comic.
But if they did it, I'd buy it.
Posted by Lad Boy on :
I've never been a Titans follower.
I'm curious -- how did the Titans toon and toon-based book affect the main Titans title when it was at the stage that LSH is in right now?
Was there something successsful there that might serve as a model for LSH or something to avoid?
My preference -- which is about as likely to occur as Speedo day in the office on Fridays --
3 Legions:
(1) 'toon /Johnny DC Legion
(2) Lightning Saga legion to interact in the 21st century with every bloody DCU title they can get into
(3) The LSH (Supergirl-less) as a somewhat more adult-themed, well written, consistently-drawn book, with limited interaction with the mega-crossover-Crisis-to-end-all-Crises-event-of-the-month in the DC mainstream. I like the Calero/Bedard look and tone.
It's Friday, let me find that Speedo.
[ July 27, 2007, 09:31 AM: Message edited by: Lad Boy ]
Posted by Tromium on :
I wouldn't hold out hope for a LSH:Classified or "Infinity" type book after Didio's statement at the Countdown panel yesterday.
quote:We're governing it very tightly,” DiDio said, explaining that multiverse stories will all be about New Earth characters traveling to other worlds to explore them and that there will not be multiple versions of series taking place on different Earths.
A "Legion of Three Worlds" story would probably pass muster under that policy, but a multi-earth Legion monthly, or concurrent Legion books set on different worlds, are highly unlikely.
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
I think DC should have a main title and think the Legion Infinity should be a multiverse title.
Legion of Super-Heroes
Legion Acadmey
Science Police
Legion Infinity
This is the Legion titles I want. They should be a FRANCHISE!
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
quote:Originally posted by Matthew E: 1. I don't think it would work as the Legion's main title, because you wouldn't be able to tell real long-term stories the way they do these days.
I'd count that as an advantage. Posted by Quislet, Esq. on :
quote:Originally posted by He Who Wanders: "Kari Wahlgren is returning as Saturn Girl, and she is also voicing Duo Damsel instead of Triplicate Girl. Somthing happens to the character early in Season 2."
Can you say "Computo," boys and girls?
Interesting that there's no mention of Chuck. I guess we're not going to see more of his term as leader.
Gee I wonder what happens to Triplicate Girl that she becomes Duo Damsel?
I wonder if the guy voicing Bouncing Boy left. He really turned me off at last years con when the cartoon and the voice actors were being introduced "I bounce" Said kind of sarcasticly.
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
I agree EDE. I think most stories should be 1 or 2 issues. Maybe once a year have a big bad 3 issue story. This should be an event and not used more than once a year. Ofcourse subplots running amok in the background.
Usually we care more about what Vi said to Dirk versus what villain is attacking.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
quote:The next question dealt with the names of the Legion ofSuper-Heroes characters - the more traditional "Lightning Lad" versus the more "modern" Livewire - and if it was "a necessary evil" to getback to the more traditional names. DiDio said he likes to go back towhat people remember most, using the example of Supergirl - people remember her as Superman's cousin, not as any of the other iterations ofthe character. "What do people remember most, what do people react tothe most" is what's important, and building a contemporary world around them.
The panelists chipped in on their opinions on the issues, with Simone saying "it's all good to me" and saying she likes both, McKeever saying that it's best to focus on "the substance over the flash," and Berganza joking that he prefers "whatever the boss tells me."
DiDio pointed to an audience member dressed up as Krypto (and by extension, the character's lingering popularity) as an example that people still care about older ideas in the DC Universe.
quote:Yes - we are going to see even more versions of the 52 Earth's versions of the future Legion of Super-Heroes. Conner Kent may also play a part in one of these scenarios.
========== Posted from my BlackBerry
[ July 27, 2007, 02:45 PM: Message edited by: Lightning Lad ]
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
I personally think Conner Kent is still in the mix. I still think it was him who appeared in the LS in shadows.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
The problem has become so prevalent that I really just want a great solution with good stories.
But a mix of continuities will never work unless there is one main Legion title with a single continuity, and all other titles grow from that. How we get there is the question. I really think this is a pretty practical line of thinking, even if I might wish differently.
*If* the Lightning Saga Legion became the main Legion title, I would not object and even defend the notion of 'moving on with it' though, I won't lie about that.
I've also come to realize that even the 'talking about fixing the Legion problem' is discouraging about comics in general to me these days. That's how far its come. I'm just so tired about stories that are about continuity problems rather than stories are just good stories.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I personally miss the time-honored fanboy debates where I'd rally for Monstress' death, people would call me mean-spirited and then Dan and Andy actually did it and I cheered Posted by Lightning Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: I personally miss the time-honored fanboy debates where I'd rally for Monstress' death, people would call me mean-spirited and then Dan and Andy actually did it and I cheered
I tried that with KQII and instead they made her Rokk's girlfriend. Posted by Quislet, Esq. on :
What if they had made KQII Monstress' girlfriend? Would that have satisfied you and Cobie?
Posted by Superboy-Supergirl on :
hey i loved monstress and kidq2 YOU BOTH ARE HEARTLESS iNTERPLANETARY BANK BEASTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Quislet, Esq.: What if they had made KQII Monstress' girlfriend? Would that have satisfied you and Cobie?
Not me, although I didn't hate Monstress as much as most. But if she had been made the girlfriend of just one of Lu's bodies... Posted by Blockade Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: I personally miss the time-honored fanboy debates where I'd rally for Monstress' death, people would call me mean-spirited and then Dan and Andy actually did it and I cheered
you're mean.
Posted by KryptonKid on :
Personally, I hated Monstress until the Legion of the Damned. I liked KQII- not as much as KQI- but the whole romance with Rokk seemed forced and really kinda creepy. When she was elected leader she went thru a total personality change and I was not impressed. She was better when she was slightly anti-establishment and would often have a critical eye on the Legion.
Posted by CJ Taylor on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: I've also come to realize that even the 'talking about fixing the Legion problem' is discouraging about comics in general to me these days. That's how far its come. I'm just so tired about stories that are about continuity problems rather than stories are just good stories.
That's where I'm at now. I like Shikari & Gates, but they've been rebooted out. Time to accept it and move on. I like the new Legion too. At this point, any talk of the old LSH should be fond memories, not requests. It only hurts the current book.
Let this series live on its own merits.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
To be completely honest, I think we're witnessing the death throws of the traditional American comic industry in its current form. The 'Legion problem' is just symptomatic of the 'comic problem' more generally.
I'm just hoping the Legion will survive into whatever new form the medium takes once the present state of things collapses.
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
quote:Originally posted by Superboy-Supergirl: hey i loved monstress and kidq2 YOU BOTH ARE HEARTLESS iNTERPLANETARY BANK BEASTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey! I resemble that remark. Posted by Blockade Boy on :
'comic problem'
Over $3 for five minutes is a problem. If a $3 book can't keep me occupied for at least a half hour, reading and looking at the art, then it's a problem and monthly issues that can do that are pretty rare these days. There's little content in the writing and the art and writing are redundant.
A good modern comic is one I can look at without reading and get one story and read without looking at the art and get another. A great issue is one where I can a third story from the combined effort.
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
When people refer to the "Legion Problem," I hear uncomfortable echoes in the back of my mind of the "Jewish Problem," as defined by the Nazis. And we all know what their "Final Solution" was.
Eryk may have a point that the comics industry itself in on the verge of extermination. I, for one, have no interest in paying three bucks for a regular issue of the same quality as the last Legion comic I picked up (# 31 of the current series). I don't imagine I'm alone in this. If this is the case, it makes all of these discussions about multiple versions pointless since the comics industry is not expanding its readership. Instead, it is catering to a small (and probably shrinking) fan base, while the general public neither knows nor cares about the Legion, let alone which version should be preferred.
The question that should be addressed, therefore, is not which version of the Legion (if any) will appeal to the most fans, but rather how do you get non-fans to care about the Legion in the numbers that cared back when sales were expanding?
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
quote:Originally posted by Blockade Boy: Over $3 for five minutes is a problem. If a $3 book can't keep me occupied for at least a half hour, reading and looking at the art, then it's a problem and monthly issues that can do that are pretty rare these days. There's little content in the writing and the art and writing are redundant.
Coincidentally, you posted this while I was drafting my post, above. I agree completely. This is exactly the lack of quality I was referring to. I'm tired of spending three bucks for one-sixth of a story (if that). With gas prices escalating, it makes less and less sense to spend that much on a comic book.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
You know... given that the cartoon is seen by many times more people than ever read the comic, there's a good chance that it'll have far more impact on the future of the Legion any "in-continuity" version.
And that's actually fine with me.
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
btw, kind of glad to see Waid as EIC at Boom Studios. I was worried about him having a supervision role at DC. Ofcourse he was editor during some of my favorite Legion stories.
Posted by Michael Grabois on :
I forgot to pop in here and remind everyone... I'm blogging the SDCC from my kitchen table too over at the Legion Omnicom.
Day 1: animated show news, Countdown, Group Therapy
Day 2: DC/Mattel panel, Batman/Legion shows, DC Nation
Posted by Monkey Eater Lad on :
Outdoor Miner and I talked to both Dennis Calero and Chris Batista for a while today. Chris in particular is a crazy-well versed Legion fan and had all sorts of awesome ideas that he wanted to explore during his run on Legion. Definitely worth picking his brain more later in in this thread here. Outdoor got a wicked Wildfire sketch from Chris that he'll hopefully show/post some time. Dennis said that Tenz has a cool moment in the next issue of Legion and that he's having a lot of fun and would love to keep working on the book past his initially scheduled arc.
Posted by Blacula on :
I don't know about anyone else but with the exception of 2 or 3 good books (Green Lantern, JLA, JSA) I'm probably more dissatisfied with the DCU right now than at any time other than after Zero Hour - when I stopped collecting comics completely for about 2 years. (Until the Reboot Legion pulled me back in funnily enough.)
So in my mind, the best possible scenario for the Legion and everything else in the DCU is a TOTAL and COMPLETE company-wide reboot after 'Final Crisis'. No more bending over backwards to explain that Wonder Woman is a JLA founder, until suddenly she isn't before deciding that actually she is again; or that Jor-el and Lara were happy loving parents to Kal-el before they became cold, emotionless strangers until they were suddenly a little bit of both. Or that this Legion is the DCU's future. No wait this one is. Or this one. It's all just a mess.
I seriously doubt they would actually do something that bold though. Not with all the new storylines they have coming up and the comic numberings being so high. But if they are going to reboot or deboot or anythingboot something - pleeeeeeeeeease let it be the Legion!
I'm sorry to the fans of this version but I find it to be incomprehensibly awful and I have serious trouble understanding how anyone could think any different.
The book still sells a fairly decent number though so I'm sure there must be those who do so. More than who would buy a partially debooted Crisis-era Legion? I doubt it. But I'm not sure that's really the answer either.
I think the only hope this book has is, yes, another reboot. * Start all over. * Forget all the weak and uninspired changes Waid and Kitson made to the Legion mythos and take it back to its roots. * Use top name creators (there's enough of them out there who've expressed an interest in this book). * Give us characters we care about and stories that excite us. * Keep the fundamentals of the book as close to its recognisable and proven Adventure/70s/Levitz eras set-up and spin new stories from there. * Batman/JLA/Teen Titans/etc have all stayed their strongest over the years when they stuck to the formula that the readers want to see from them - the Legion needs to do the same. * The Reboot Legion actually had this formula SOOOOOooo right until Waid left and PMS started writing the book for 5 year-olds. (What happened to THAT Mark Waid?)
I know nearly everyone would probably be burned out by yet another Legion reboot (maybe even me included), thus doing one for just the Legion would probably be franchise suicide. That's why it's my opinion that the whole DCU needs to be rebooted letting this team's 4th reboot be an acceptable occurrence going along with that.
For the Legion to LIVE, the DCU must DIE! (How's that for a tagline? )
[ July 28, 2007, 03:28 AM: Message edited by: Blacula ]
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
Blacula, if they just reboot everything again? Well I'm with you with Wonder Woman and Superman, etc.
Heck I'm with you about JSA, GL, and JLA being their best three titles by far.
But I just think another reboot will hurt. They just had a sublte reboot it seems. Superman suddently has a new origin and no one one knows it. And it's probably much like his old origin.
Didio said something that I like but scares me. He wants to put forth the best known variation of each character. That sounds good for Superman/Wonder Woman. But what about Hawkman/girl or the Legion? Scary.
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
MEL, that sounds awesome! Didn't know Batista was such a Legion fan! You gotta spill the beans about some of his ideas.
Posted by Paul Newell on :
quote:Gary Frank will be on "Action Comics," which was likened to "going back to your old home town and finding that the people you knew don't hang out anymore," Didio said. Three versions of the Legion are to appear in this series.
quote:DiDio then turned attention towards an Action Comics image by Gary Frank of Superman with a Legion flight ring. Johns said it's about Superman going into the future to visit the Legion of Super-Heroes, and equating it to revisiting people you knew in high school and seeing that they changed in unexpected ways.
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
Thanks Paul. I didn't know three different versions were going to appear in Action!?
Posted by Tromium on :
quote:Will Superman take on any contemporary political or social issues in the near future?" Johns said "He'll take on some in the 31st century in October."
We previously learned that the Lightning Saga Legion fights separatism and xenophobia in the future. While the kids vs. adults premise obviously won't apply to them, the galactic socio-political backdrop seems to be as important to the LS Legion as it is to the WaK Legion, and may be a clue why Superman is persona non grata in the 31st century. It's implied his name is mud -- maybe oldtime super-heroism isn't valued by their society, either. Possibly something even darker and more depressing. It's clearly not going to be a "happy" take on the Legion, in any event.
Posted by Vee on :
Heck, maybe one of his decendants (Laurel Kent?!!!) turns out to be a super villain and destroys the family name! Posted by Paul Newell on :
quote:Originally posted by Ultra Jorge: Thanks Paul. I didn't know three different versions were going to appear in Action!?
Neither did I, Jorge. That was the only place I saw it mentioned...Until I checked out Michael's Legion Omnicom this morning and saw this:
quote:One new item from IGN's coverage of DC Nation panel: "There are really three Legion of Superheroes. Batman will meet this third version."
Posted by Arachne on :
So maybe I get to see reboot Vi again. Cool! Posted by Tromium on :
quote:How many versions of the Legion of Super-Heroes are floating around? Johns’ answer was “Two...well, really three”.
Maybe it's really 2.5 Legions. One is kind of halfassed.
Posted by Gorilla Nebula on :
i dunno. i'm bored by the continuity questions and would rather just get some content. some meat on those bones. remember when the TMK 5 year gap got hijacked by having to give up Mon-El for Valor and we got Laurel Gand and Comet Kid, changed to Kid Quantum, and many storylines explaining the differences in continuity. UGH. that does not attract new readers. as soon as you play that game of trying to placate the old fanbase, you lose.
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
Good point, GN. Good stories can absolve a wealth of continuity sins.
Posted by Pariscub on :
quote:Originally posted by Gorilla Nebula: i dunno. i'm bored by the continuity questions and would rather just get some content. some meat on those bones. remember when the TMK 5 year gap got hijacked by having to give up Mon-El for Valor and we got Laurel Gand and Comet Kid, changed to Kid Quantum, and many storylines explaining the differences in continuity. UGH. that does not attract new readers. as soon as you play that game of trying to placate the old fanbase, you lose.
I hear you, but the problem is,the old fan base seems to be the only ones buying the book. None of the subsequent reboots has been a commercial success.
And when you look at DC in the past few years, what have they done?... the brought back classic characters from the 60s like Hal Jordan or Adam Strange and brethed new life in them. So if I were DC, I would attempt the same with LSH as it worked for others before. As for continuity, with the "Infinite Crisis" and "New Earth" (not the 5YL version), we could have the best of both worlds: the classic Legion without the burden of continuity for new readers, without having to invalidate too much of what happened before for the fanbase.
Posted by Paul Newell on :
quote:Originally posted by Tromium: According to the Wizard report of the DC Nation panel, Geoff Johns hesitated a bit when he was asked the question.
quote:How many versions of the Legion of Super-Heroes are floating around? Johns’ answer was “Two...well, really three”.
Maybe it's really 2.5 Legions. One is kind of halfassed.
Heh.
I dunno, from the hesitation I got the feeling it was more whether he should reveal the reboot Legion was still out there or not, but then decided it was pointless to keep it a secret.
Posted by Tromium on :
You're probably right but I couldn't resist.
Putting together all the teasers, the bigger picture is certainly becoming clearer.
Legion of Three Worlds? (partially speculative)
1. Lightning Saga Legion (Confirmed in JSA #6. The solicitation for Action #858, and writer Geoff Johns, referred to it as "the original Legion".)
2. An unspecified Legion that is widely believed to be, or to closely resemble, the post-Zero Hour Legion last seen on Earth-247 in Infinite Crisis #6. Starman's ramblings name XS and two other "Thoms". According to an SDCC teaser from Dan Didio, Conner Kent may be in one of the Legions, and this version seems the most probable one.
(Some speculation has the former Earth-247 Legion on Kingdom Come Earth-22, where Starman was trapped for a time before his first apppearance in JSA. The 1996 Kingdom Come LSH, according to the Waid/Ross annotations, was very similar to the post-ZH Legion, with the notable additions of a Superboy and Supergirl who were not the pre-Crisis originals. It should also be noted that Geoff John's next major JSA arc involves the Kingdom Come Superman, a fact that lends some credence to this hypothesis.)
3. 3boot/post-IC Legion (Confirmed at SDCC as one of the two Legions that Batman has met. The meeting in question is depicted by Mark Waid in "The Brave & the Bold" #5, which takes place before Batman encounters members of the Lightning Saga Legion in the JLA/JSA crossover. Previously stated/assumed to be the New Earth Legion and the future of the DCU, particularly because of Supergirl's presence in their century, their actual home universe is presently uncertain. The as yet unrevealed New Earth-1 is one of many possibilities.)
Unless I'm reading it wrong, the implication seems to be there are *only* three Legions in the Multiverse. If this is true, I'm kind of disappointed. I have no interest in seeing other previous continuities (TMK) or elseworlds versions (Superboy's Legion) again, but I'd love the chance to see some *new* Legions that never existed before.
[ July 31, 2007, 09:34 AM: Message edited by: Tromium ]
Posted by Kent Shakespeare on :
well, just because this 'crisis' only involves three doesn't mean there are only three.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
It depends on what "floating around" means. I assume Johns was taking it to mean either "How many Legions have we seen in recent stories?" or "How many Legions are there plans for?" then the answer is, presumably, two for the former question and three for the latter. If it means "How many Legions are there in the multiverse?", I doubt there's an established answer to that question. From what I understand, they've only planned out about half the 52 worlds thus far.
Posted by Paul Newell on :
quote:Originally posted by Tromium: Unless I'm reading it wrong, the implication seems to be there are *only* three Legions in the Multiverse. If this is true, I'm kind of disappointed. I have no interest in seeing other previous continuities (TMK) or elseworlds versions (Superboy's Legion) again, but I'd love the chance to see some *new* Legions that never existed before.
At this point in time I think it's more three Legions that we know of.
I think its still a possibility that there are other versions of the Legion out there....Just ones we haven't seen as yet. According to the latest issue of Countdown, a lot of the other worlds are based on the most popular Elseworlds titles. My guess would be that one of those will turn out to be the Earth that appeared in "JLA: The Nail". And wasn't there a Superboy's Legion tie-in or cameo in the sequel?
My guess is they will try and do the same thing with the TMK Legion as well....Find a suitable story, with similar overtones and create a "world" of several stories that don't upset each other's continuity too much.
Posted by Paul Newell on :
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: From what I understand, they've only planned out about half the 52 worlds thus far.
It's been mentioned by Dan Didio that they have all 52 Earths planned out....They just haven't revealed all of them yet.
Posted by Kryptaku on :
quote:Originally posted by Lightning Lad: FromNewsarama:
quote:DiDio pointed to an audience member dressed up as Krypto (and by extension, the character's lingering popularity) as an example that people still care about older ideas in the DC Universe.
Could that have been our own Kryptaku?
Yep, that was me. And man, let me tell ya, walking around all day in what amounts to a full body sweater with a hood, in the dead of summer ... little unpleasant.
The things I do for my love of the Super Pets
Posted by Ultra Jorge on :
I just gained some new respect for the Super-Pets. Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
quote:Originally posted by Querl Dox: the first DC panel, Countdown, is live right now and already some talks about the legion!
quote:Next question was about the various Legion continuities apparently running around currently - both in the Supergirl and the Legion of Super-Heroes title and the one in the "Lightning Saga" storyline. Marts said that some answers should be coming soon, and DiDio reminded the panel (and audience) that next year is the 50th anniversary of the Legion
I wonder if I should take at least some credit for the 50th anniversary announcement since I first brought it up to DiDio at Heroes' Con.
Probably not. But I will anyway.
Posted by Chemical King on :
Even though there's a lot of "just nice talk" at this panel, there was some information as well. Okay.
Very interesting thread. What it made me thinking about was: Which version of the Legion will come out "winner" of the next year "Main Legion event"?
I hardly doubt it will be the current WaK version. Even though Waid remembered after some 20 issues that telling an actual STORY might be a good idea, the current continuity somehow leaves me cold. Some people still say they love it cause it's the version that brought them to the Legion - I can very well respect that - for me, it's like "Yeah, it's kind of interesting but, well, where is the Legion Lore?". And every time they come up with some classic legion elements like recently Validus, you instantaniously start comparing it to the old stuff and there's just no chance: The new stuff looses.
What I read with pleasure is that the Lightning Saga Legion will be about fighting xenophobia and seperatism. Those are important topics which are always stuff for good stories - hey, even the Reboot Legion was telling a good xenophobia story with "White Triangle" (the single good storyline after ZH / before DnA) - so this could be a much more decent start than "underagers against adults" which still leaves a big question mark about my head (what was Waid smoking those days???).
But which version will survive? I doubt there will be more than one ongoing book. There might be an experiment with a Classified title telling new stories from old continuities - but I doubt it. There will be just one title after the smoke clears.
And the only reason that "Lightning saga" has happened is that those oldtimers will return. Everything else does make no sense. They will return in a major storyline/crossover/mini-series whatever - and there will be a new #1 again. And the Threeboot will not be erased - I'm pretty sure of that as well - but be written into a parallel universe so that you can, from time to time, return to these characters as well.
Considering the fact that time is healing all wounds, the demand for the Threeboot characters will vanish over the years until most people remember them only as a failed Mark Waid experiment...
BTW, I don't know if this will save the Legion either. I concur with those people writing they are fed up with paying 3$ for a book they only need five minutes to read. Especially when you have to be angry about the art as well like with #31. I kind of liked the art in #32, much better, but still I don't know if this is worth 3$... so comics as a whole will be becoming a rarity because they just don't work for most youngsters (too expensive). It's a sad story.
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by Chemical King: What I read with pleasure is that the Lightning Saga Legion will be about fighting xenophobia and seperatism.
and this will work because the Lightning Saga legion is such a diverse representation?
This didn't work the first time they tried it. Won't work the second if they persist in this racist allegory. The vibe I get from this board anyhow, is that there are certain aspects of human behavior we'd like to pretend have been resolved in the 31st century.
I think they'd have much better fortune with this theme if they take the "first contact" approach, cultural misunderstandings and all that as opposed to the "bigots-R-us" approach. It's just easier to place oneself in the hero role of a "first contact" and in the victim role of a racist theme. Both can evoke emotion but only the former seems uplifting and gives the reader something to puzzle out.
Picking the "racist" is problematic because it generally shows the bigotry of the writer. Either it's the rich or uneducated white guy because they are acceptable as bigots for some reason or the writer tries to show their cleverness by placing the gay black guy in the racist role and it's obvious to all. This approach to xenophobia seems a no win situation to me.
Posted by Chemical King on :
When was the first time they tried it?
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by Chemical King: When was the first time they tried it?
After zero-hour, I think it was Waid's run beginning with the recruitment of members and the White Triangle story line, which wasn't bad (much) but then the idea kind of died on the vine. Even the anti-durlan thing got a bit old for me. They resolved that one, somewhat.
Posted by Blacula on :
Just piping in to say that the 'White Triangle' storyline of the reboot was one of the best storylines in the Legion's history!
I'd die to see writing of that quality on this book again.
(And yes I do see the irony of the writer of that book being the same one who drove the quality of this one into the ground.)
Posted by Chemical King on :
Well said, Blacula...
I agree with you that White Triangle was a very good story back then. I have to confess that in my eyes, it's the ONLY post-Zero Hour storyline that even deserved the word "storyline" till DnA came on board. I thought it was quite tragic seeing Tinya die again after what Jo and her were through in 5YL.
Unfortunately, her death was undone later on so the relevance of the whole storyline was diminished. But I digress.
I can't remember any other Post-ZH storyline that had the same impact on me that White Triangle had - so I really think racism can work as a plot element, no matter if the writer is white, black or green: It is something that has always existed, still does exist and probably will always be existing - no matter how much we wish the future to be a better place. People will stay human beings in the first place - afraid of everything and everyone different.
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
Which might have more to do with the quality of the post zh storylines than with the quality of White Triangle but that's a cheap shot I suppose.
Having racism as a storyline and having racism as a theme are a bit different approache IMO. I can't see it as getting anything but repetitious.
Even White Triangle covered no new ground, in fact it took the oldest road as I recall. The story didn't in any case that I can recall, attempt to cause a reader to reflect on how they develop their personal perceptions. The one small incorporation of a different reason was Gand's, she found different things "ickey." Please, that's lame. Puppies would be a dead species if that were the deeper cause of racism.
I can't see anyone having read that story, coming to a better understanding or desire to investigate how they develop their personal opinions and perspectives regards new experiences. The reader was simply told, "Racism bad, diversity good, hulk smash."
"First Contact" stories however are very good at giving the reader opportunity to reflect and can also incorporate aspects of "difference" and prejudice without being repetitious.
It might make a good thread, having a group reread of the White Triangle arc to get personal perspectives.
Posted by Blacula on :
I don't know about you Blockade Boy but I don't read Legion comics to reflect on how I develop my personal perceptions or to learn how to come to a better understanding or desire to investigate how I develop my personal opinions and perspectives as regards new experiences.
If that happens, great, but all I really want out of a Legion comic is a fun, exciting story as told through characters I enjoy reading about. And on that level the 'White Triangle' storyline very much delivered for me.
Chemical King - I would argue that the 'President Chu-sting' storyline which took up the bulk of the second year of the Reboot was equally as successful as the first year's 'White Triangle' tale, and acted as a great couterpoint to it, ending as it did on an uplifting, triumphant note in comparison to the more sombre, mournful conclusion of the first arc.
Blockade Boy - I think that's a great idea about getting a sort of Legion Book Club going. We could all go back and re-read a certain issue or storyline and then discuss it in a thread devoted to that tale. It will be really interesting to see if any opinions have changed now that time's passed and a bit of emotional detachment may've occurred.
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
Blockade Boy - I think that's a great idea about getting a sort of Legion Book Club going. We could all go back and re-read a certain issue or storyline and then discuss it in a thread devoted to that tale. It will be really interesting to see if any opinions have changed now that time's passed and a bit of emotional detachment may've occurred.
Well, Blacula, that's what these recent threads are about:
They hit virtually every era of the Legion's past. But if you don't see your favorite stories here, feel free to start your own review threads.
Posted by Blacula on :
^^^ Heh - I thought something like that must've already been done around here HWW!
In my head I was thinking of something a little different though, where we all (or whoever wants to get involved) literally arrange to read a certain story and then post about it while it's still fresh in our minds in more of a kind've informal discussion format. A bit like a Book Club I guess.
I've always read those excellent threads you linked to as more really informative, inciteful, thought-provoking 'case-studies' than 'discussions'.
But then that's probably because I've never actually read a lot of the stories those threads cover (Magic Wars, Legion Conspiracy, Post-Conspiracy Era, Legend of Valor or Adv. 328) so I was approaching them more as a 'learner' rather than one who could freely discuss the topics therein.
I guess the moral of this post is - I need to catch up on my Legion reading! Posted by He Who Wanders on :
quote:Originally posted by Blacula: I've always read those excellent threads you linked to as more really informative, inciteful, thought-provoking 'case-studies' than 'discussions'.
Thanks for the compliment, but I don't see much difference between what you are proposing and what's been done on these threads. People who want to re-read the stories before commenting on them certainly have that option (and, in fact, it's an excellent idea. I've been doing the same thing before commenting on Lash's "Let's Talk Tom & Mary" thread).
But I certainly understand what you mean about not having read most of these stories. That's why you should start your own review/Book Club threads: the more the merrier.
(And, just to state the obvious: no one needs to follow my lead in how to go about reviewing/analyzing/dissecting the stories. Do it in a manner that suits you.)
[ August 05, 2007, 12:47 AM: Message edited by: He Who Wanders ]
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by Blacula: In my head I was thinking of something a little different though, where we all (or whoever wants to get involved) literally arrange to read a certain story and then post about it while it's still fresh in our minds in more of a kind've informal discussion format. A bit like a Book Club I guess.
That sounds fun. Those other threads are great, but generally it's one person reading a back issue then posting their thoughts for comment. I found generally, before I could get out my old issue, read and comment, the thread starter has moved on to the next issue. In order to participate I was left to comment based upon memory instead of shared experience.
Prearranging as you say, in a book club, would allow us to comment as if the issue came out this month and we were reading it at the same time, with the benefit that some members familiar with what is to come can maybe point out how a scene is maybe made more significant later on.
Probably one of the great examples of this, is the introduction of Validus with his "power" refered to "mental lightning." Here is something a reader built upon in a letter column and then ultimately became legend through events in the GDSaga and the circle completed in a couple annuals.
Book Club, cool idea. Now, who's going to start the forum and be Book Master? LoL
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
quote:Originally posted by Blockade Boy: [QUOTE]That sounds fun. Those other threads are great, but generally it's one person reading a back issue then posting their thoughts for comment. I found generally, before I could get out my old issue, read and comment, the thread starter has moved on to the next issue. In order to participate I was left to comment based upon memory instead of shared experience.
This comment baffles me, Blockade Boy, as I always waited until traffic in one thread had died down a little before posting the next one.
Also, the presence of multiple review threads did not mean that posters had to abandon one thread and go onto the next, or that they had to hurry in posting comments. As recent board activity has shown, there's no time limit in posting comments on any thread.
I truly intended for each thread to be a forum for discussion on the particular stories for ANYONE who wants to participate at ANY time. If you felt left out, I apologize.
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by Blockade Boy: Those other threads are great,
I really like Blacula's idea.
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
Scott wanted to try something like this in the past.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
I guess I can offer to be the librarian for this if people are serious. I'll supply the book but it will be up to someone else to organize it and start the threads.
Posted by Kid Prime on :
quote:Originally posted by Blacula: Just piping in to say that the 'White Triangle' storyline of the reboot was one of the best storylines in the Legion's history!
I'd die to see writing of that quality on this book again.
(And yes I do see the irony of the writer of that book being the same one who drove the quality of this one into the ground.)
I know I've said this repeatedly, but I loved the White Triangle storyline.
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They should be a FRANCHISE!
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