Tom and Mary Bierbaum were allowed to fly solo after Giffen left the 5-Years Later LSH.
I think they wrote some pretty groovy stories.
I will begin to re-read their stint tonight, but thought I'd open the thread with some memories of their stories, and compare my comments later after I've re-read them.
They actually have 2 separate stints without Giffen, one being LSH 39-50 and the other being th first 10 or so issues of LEGIONNAIRES.
I'll be re-reading the LSH stuff first, with comments to follow.
But off the top of my hand (and with glancing at the covers of stated issues) I can remember that 39 was a real emotional issue, 40's cover was in exceptionally bad taste, 41 was awesome and fun (as were those Legionnaires issues I'll be rereading later; I kinda count LSH # 41 as LEGIONNAIRES # 0), LSH # 42-- something good finally happens to the long crapped-on character of Luornu Durgo.
Then we have the Mordru multi-parter (Zombies!), the all-awesome all-Matter-Eater Lad issue (*more* zombies!) and T&M's grand finale, # 50.
I'll comment more on these issues after I re-read them. I will say now that the Bierbaums certainly were blessed with some fantastic artists on their stints (Immonen on LSH, Sprouse and Hughes on Legionnaires).
Hopefully you all will dig out your own copies, re-read 'em and tell us what you think of 'em now.
posted
looks like Tom and Mary went Giffenless on LSH # #37 as well... I remember being somewhat annoyed by the portrayal of Nura Nal in that issue (although I liked her during the Mordru multi-parter).
posted
My main impression of Tom and Mary's writing is that their dialogue is much better than most of the Legion's past writers, including Levitz. Whereas Levitz felt it necessary to remind the readers every few pages of who these characters were, what they could do, and what some (usually irrelevant) aspect of their past was like, the Bierbaums benefitted from the "What has gone before" captions on the letter's page. Even when such captions were absent (as in Annual # 3), they didn't feel it necessary to beat the reader over the head with extraneous information. They credited the reader with being able to figure out things on their own.
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
posted
I think the Bierbaums are easily the best scripters the Legion has ever had.
I never thought Levitz's dialogue was all that great. Even reading his best stuff like GDS, there are moments when I can break out laughing at just how cheesy and overblown some of the writing is. Levitz's real skill was as a plotter and systematizer of what had gone before.
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I also love the T&M-K issues. I think 'Legion of the Dead' is a pretty kick-ass Mordru story, with great scenes for Jeckie, Devlin, and a whole host of others.
The Tenzil story will always be one of the greatest LSH spotlights of all time.
But above all, I felt that these issues could have lead to something so much more. The Legion had begun to feel like super-heroes again, and after #50, I see no reason why the 5YL continuity could not have gone another 40 years if done properly. Honestly, all that was needed was a shift in tone in regards to a renewed sense of optimism (done in the story of course) and a change in the art from dreary to gradually (over years) becoming brighter and fresher. I felt like the Bierbaums had begun this, especially by effectively eliminiating Mordru as a threat for at least awhile. Even Jeckie's return to the team felt that way (though unfortunately, it didn't last), just like Jacques and Drura joining up. Losing Cham was a mistake though.
I loved the idea of the Khund Legionnaires. While Veilmist and Flederweb are the obvious break-out favorites, I even enjoyed the other two for what they were worth, especially the complete 'over the top Khund' that ultimately got killed.
The dialogue, as others mention, was top-notch. In fact, I can basically attribute these issues to me becoming a fan of Devlin O'Ryan and a few others, including Cos's one-armed buddy who was the engineer at the HQ (damn me for forgetting his name suddenly!)
I have to admit I didn't hate the Star Boy/Nura issue though.
Lash, what cover are you referring to as being tasteless? Forgive my alcohol sodden memory...
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Ultra Jorge: Also the first annual with Ultra Boy? One of my all time favorite legion stories. They wrote that by themselves I think.
I had forgotten they did that one solo too. Also one of my favorite Legion stories of all time, and what I would call the greatest Legion Spotlight story of all time (probably the greatest spotlight story in a team book as well). Every time I reread it, I still think "wow...this is just ****in brillant!"
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
The UB annual story was a masterful blending of past stories into a sinlge thread, and well-scripted to boot.
For post-Giffen T&M, I loved 39-41, but the Mordru/zombie/Amethyst bit left me a bit cold (no pun intended). Their Legionnaires run was fun, but nothing outstanding. I much preferred their with-Giffen run (except for Profem).
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
welllllllllllll to be a disenting voice ...i didnt like how they brought a lot of fanzine speculation into the book on some things. 1)element lad being gay (though obviously i have no problem with gay legionnaires as some of u know im gay) i just hated Shvaghun being Sean the total greatest WTF moment in the history of the Legion for me. Then there's that business we were discussing about Garth Being proty...that was total legion fanzine discussion...its in the that legion fanztine trade that's out talking about how saturn girl knows that mon-el isnt really himself and deals with the fact that she knows Garth is really proty 1.
-------------------- Bring back the super-cousins
From: nyc | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I agree that Shvaugn/Sean didn't pan out (on the other hand, Eltro-in-Lar, IMHO, did work). If Jan was to be made gay, so be it - but that shouldn't invalidate his hetero relationship with Shvaugn.
For a long time, I was in the camp strongly opposed to Proty-in-Garth. I'm not not sold on it, but I can accept it in terms of that story (as per the puzzle peice that doesn't fit for me into the trest of continuity).
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
Although not my first Legion stories, my first experience with Legion on a monthly basis was TMK--I'll always love it. I agree that things got a little esoteric (Eltro Gand, Shvaughn), but it was precisely those little details that Tom and Mary included that really opened the Legion mythos to me. I got completely obsessed with getting Legion back issues (a quest that has now occupied me for 18 years, off and on) and finding out what they were talking about.
-------------------- The only consistent feature of all of your dissatisfying relationships is you.
Don't judge me!
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
I had a real problem with the casual maiming, raping, and killing of Legion characters by TMK, and it totally turned me off the series long before the Bierbaums took complete control over the scripting. While there were some positive moments in the TMK stories (I still don't have many of the later issues in this version), overall the Legion plunged from multiple titles to a single one on the verge of cancellation in the decade following the 5Y later startup. The TMK Legion totally tore up the 30 year foundation it insisted on spring-boarding from, and left a total continuity mess that the current Legion title still is struggling to recover from (the WaK version helping not at all). Tom & Mary Bierbaum, along with Giffen, are largely to blame for this.
-------------------- "My dance card was getting fuller than a contestant's at a Jandan shurg-off." - Exnihil, The Lost Klordny
From: Frederick, MD | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
Based on Giffen and the Bierbaums' interviews in the The Legion Companion, I would say DC and Giffen are more to blame than the Bierbaums, KQ. Tom Bierbaum credits Giffen with 70 percent of the vision for 5YL. By contrast, Tom estimates that he and Mary contributed 15 percent, with Al Gordon getting 10 percent and Tom McCraw five percent(p. 201).
DC certainly forced the rewrite of the Legion's history, which even Giffen wasn't happy with. He says he refused to do a "white event" to start everything from scratch, as he had been advised (p. 194).
So, I think the Bierbaums and, to a lesser extent, Giffen, managed the best they could with the incomplete deck of cards they were given.
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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