There's a pretty important Legion appearance in IC #6 -
Click Here For A SpoilerThere's a page that deals with "Snap Shots" of the different Earth's in the new multi-verse, and on Earth-247 we find the Reboot Legion, complete with Shakari shouting "I've finally found you." On the same page we see Bizarro Earth, "Generations" Earth, a Western Earth, Earth-S (Marvel Family) and an Earth featuring the Tangent Heroes.
At the end of the issue, all Earth's are rolled back into one. So does this mean the reboot Legion (including Shakari) are now off the table permanently?
Posted by Querl Dox on :
I'm going to my comics-shop right now, so i will read that later this afternoon.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Crap! I can't get to the shop today. Anyone got a scan of the page?
Posted by Faraway Lad on :
We dont get delivery until tomorrow. So I guess I have to avoid IC threads from now on??
Posted by Querl Dox on :
so..i've just read the issue, and it's just one panel, but it's interesting.
like you, rouge, i wonder what does that mean to the Legion.
Posted by Ultra Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by Lightning Lad: Crap! I can't get to the shop today. Anyone got a scan of the page?
Likewise crap! Anyone? Even a "crappy" pic?
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
It WAS kinda awesome! I actually couldn't wait to get back to the office to post this thread but rouge beat me to it!
Click Here For A SpoilerShikair reunited with the Reboot Legion!
Click Here For A SpoilerWhat this means is that we won't be seeing Shikari in the Threeboot. *BUT* they still exist somewhere. Kind of a cool appearance. Posted by doublechinner on :
I get the Adventure Comics joke and all, but Earth 247? That is WAAYY down the list of important earths, if you ask me. I bet even Captain Carrot rates at least Earth 183. Powers that be really felt that bad about the reboot Legion?
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Well, I'm going to repeat my complaint that the Adventure #247 reference makes no sense, since that particular Legion did not appear in Adventure #247.
Posted by Tromium on :
I won't comment until I've actually seen it but can someone please tell us which characters appear?
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Click Here For A SpoilerI see Shikari, Kid Quantum II, Cosmic Boy, Karate Kid, Spark, Saturn Girl, Chameleon, M'Onel, Gates, Ultra Boy, Wildfire, Live Wire (strangely with robotic arm), Star Boy, Dreamer Umbra, Sensor, Validus, Emerald Eye, and what I believe is a Dodo form the Blight storyline Posted by Awkward Pause Boy on :
Click Here For A Spoiler This has to be the lamest resolution to the team-lost-in-the-timestream-Shikari-in-the-threeboot dangling plot that I could have imagined. As such, it gave me a good chuckle. Also humorous was that I did not even get the 247 reference. Note the legion outpost, not Legionworld, looms in the background.
[ April 05, 2006, 04:00 PM: Message edited by: Awkward Pause Boy ]
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
BTW:
Q: Any chance of ADVENTURE COMICS ever being revived?
One could only hope for Superman when he was a boy, & appearances by the Legion of Super-Heroes! Posted by Lightning Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: Click Here For A SpoilerLive Wire (strangely with robotic arm)
Click Here For A SpoilerNot just that but as Garth (pre-Lost), not Jarth. Makes me wonder if there are some Tales of the Time Lost Legion to tell or if the pencillers just screwed up. With Andy Lanning listed on inks/finishes you'd think he'd catch a major mistake like that. Posted by Michael Grabois on :
The "247" was just a nod to Legion readers, it doesn't appear to me to have anything at all to do with the "importance" of the Legion. What sounds better as far as Legion trivia and history, Earth-12 or Earth-247? Is Earth-97 (Tangent) more important than Earth-154 (home of Superman Jr and Batman Jr)?
I'd chalk Garth's arm up to a pencilling error ("screw up" is way too harsh a term for this). And Andy Lanning might not have inked these pages, which look like Perez art.
Captain Carrot was on Earth-C.
My interpretation of this panel in regards to the Legion's last appearance is that somehow they made it TO Earth-247 from the void in which we last saw them, where they had left their time as the future of Earth-Post-Zero-Hour. During the time when all the Earths were in the sky, Shikari made her way from Earth-Post-Infinite-Crisis to Earth-247 and found the rest of the Legion just in time for this panel.
Finally, you'll see on that 2-page spread that Alex Luthor only picked two Earths from among the multitudes to smush together in his "petri dish": 154 (the Super-Sons) and 462 (a JSA/All-Star Squadron thing that I don't recognize). All we can see by the last page is that all of the Earths are apparently back together, as New Earth.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Michael Grabois: I'd chalk Garth's arm up to a pencilling error ("screw up" is way too harsh a term for this). And Andy Lanning might not have inked these pages, which look like Perez art.
Wasn't just Garth's arm though. When we last saw him, he was in his Jarth outfit and all crystalline. This to me was a mistake that shouldn't have been made if the penciller/inker/finisher/editor had been paying attention.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Wasn't he already looking more back to normal in the TT/LSH special?
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
He was still in Jan's black and white outfit with an all-crystal head.
[ April 05, 2006, 07:20 PM: Message edited by: Lightning Lad ]
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I just take it that Jarth was somehow reverted to the traditional Livewire in the time thats passed since we saw them. I certainly don't mind ever having to learn how.
[ April 05, 2006, 07:30 PM: Message edited by: Cobalt Kid ]
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
True, some time seems to have passed. "I've finally found you"
Kid Q seems really surprised to see Shikari as well.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Reverted to pre-Lost #11 though? I'd definitely like to see that story.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
It could simply be the result of the separation of the Earths. Maybe in the non-merged Earth-247 continuity, the "Jarth" thing didn't happen exactly the way it did in the merged Earth continuity.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
But I would think Shikari would know that. Didn't her power seem to be able to tell her when something was 'false' or not what it should be?
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
quote:Originally posted by Lightning Lad: Wasn't just Garth's arm though. When we last saw him, he was in his Jarth outfit and all crystalline.
Come to think of it, wasn't Gates left behind when the Legion got lost at the end of the Special?
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Here's the way I see things:
1. For whatever reason, Earth-247 emerged as the dominant Earth in the 30th/31st century after Zero Hour.
2. As a result of Infinite Crisis, Earth-247 will no longer be the dominant Earth.
3. This change coincides with the TT/LSH special. During that special, the Legion themselves were messing around with the timestream, and a number of their members were caught in the limbo between realities.
4. Shikari tried to find her way back to "reality", but it had changed by the time she got there.
5. Earth-247 was reborn when Alex recreated the multiverse. The postboot Legion is automatically transported to that Earth, just like other characters were transferred to their home Earths.
6. Once the multiverse is recreated, Shikari is either also transported or else finds her way to Earth-247, where she encounters "her" Legion.
It may very well be that certain postboot Legionnaires who weren't depicted (e.g. XS), don't actually originate on Earth-247.
Posted by Michael Grabois on :
That sounds very reasonable and makes sense, but I'm not sure I agree with it all (yet).
In issue 6, we see three distinct Earths (247, 462, and 898) that are in time periods not in the present like everywhere else. In the original Crisis, the red skies and antimatter were in many times, in this Crisis we've never seen anything outside the present. Yet on these pages there is the Old West (898), some sort of World War II JSA (462), and the Legion (247) - I interpreted that as those being present-day Earths just somehow time-shifted.
As for everyone returning to their home Earth, at Stonehenge you have Zatanna, whose father was from Earth-2; Jennifer Morgan, whose father has already been rebooted (even though he appears just to the right of the DC logo on the Perez cover); and Kyle Rayner and Firestorm in space, even though they would have been from Earth-8. So it's not a given that they return.
I'd say that between the TT/LSH Special and now, the Legion made their way out of Limbo and onto Earth-247 when the multiverse was recreated. Becuase they were outside the time stream, they didn't automatically go to their original post-ZH Earth.
In the "everyone return to the world you came from" scenario, XS would have been from Earth-1, where her grandparents Barry and Iris Allen were born and where her mother was conceived.
Posted by disaster boy on :
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: Well, I'm going to repeat my complaint that the Adventure #247 reference makes no sense, since that particular Legion did not appear in Adventure #247.
id suggest that this could be an alternate shikari finding an appropriatley alternate legion she was seperated from. not neccessarily connected to the legion we used to read.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
Considering the "continuity waves" that were rewriting history, "Jarth" being redrawn as Garth isn't really a big deal to me. It'd explain the reappearance of the Blight as well.
Posted by Matthew E on :
I think we're overthinking this. I haven't yet read IC #6, but to my mind that panel was DC's way of saying, "The Shikari thing is now resolved. Let's move on, and don't sweat the details." Yes, it's annoying that they got some details wrong, and yes, I'll miss Shikari (among other Legionnaires not in the current series), but does anybody think it'd really *work* to have her come into the current series? I don't.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Comic fans overthinking matters of continuity? That's just absurd! Posted by Tromium on :
quote:Originally posted by Matthew E: Yes, it's annoying that they got some details wrong, and yes, I'll miss Shikari (among other Legionnaires not in the current series), but does anybody think it'd really *work* to have her come into the current series? I don't.
Personally, I would have liked her as a "bridge" character. While her return provides resolution to the post-ZH Legion, it also deflates the very tantalizing ending of the Titans/Legion special.
Oddly, while Jarth became robot-arm Garth again on Earth-247, Sensor was still in her altered state as half-snake, half-woman, suggesting it was not the effect of the timestream/Multiverse. Perhaps he transmuted himself and just decided the arm was cool bling. However it happened, I am grateful for both his and Jan's sake. It would have left a bad taste in my mouth if our very last glimpse of the post-ZH Legion had featured Jan's mobile corpse. Even if it wasn't the artist's conscious intent to make things right, he did.
Posted by Matthew E on :
The way I look at it, she was a bridge character. For that one page at the end of the Titans/Legion Special. That page was the bridge. (Notice that it's only *implied* that the world that Shikari found is the same world that had Lyle jumping out the window. We could very well be cutting from world to world as we turn away from the Shikari page.) And we don't need a bridge anymore; we've got sixteen (so far) solid issues to stand on.
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
Id say that its implied the Preview is not the reality the series takes place in. If only because both we the reader and Lyle see Violet on panel.
Posted by Matthew E on :
Yeah, well. That's another detail I wouldn't sweat. If it's not the reality of the new series then why show it to us?
Posted by Gorilla Nebula on :
i agree, Matthew E. i'm really tired of seeing "not in continuity" legionnaires and stories. it really dilutes this current series and any import it may have.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I take it as the Shikari subplot wrapped up and Superboy Prime's punching the reboot Jarth back to normal. Chalk up a plus for the reboot Legion and Infinite Crisis!
Other minor matters go to my favorite explanation ever, Superboy Prime gyrating his hips on continuity (thanks Tamper!).
Besides all that, it was a nice little glimpse at the reboot Legion for fans and at least an attempt at closure for Shikari. I, for one, am thrilled she won't be in the threeboot.
Posted by candlelight on :
I loved Shikari, so I'd appreciate her inclusion into ANY Legion timeline. I feel the same about Gates and XS too, of course.
Oh well, Shady
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
I don't have anything against Shikari appearing, per se, but I'd rather have a re-imagined version of her rather than a leftover of the old continuity.
Oddly enough, I'd prefer a Quislet who remembers past continuities...
Posted by rtvu2 on :
That Earth 462.... the blonde was Wonder Woman from some tv movie. It was Denise Crosby? and she had the blonde hair. You can also see Wonder Girl outfit that made it to tv in the Wonder Woman tv series. I can also make out a version of Flash and a firefighter looking Robin. Also it seems like alot of DCs Nazi bad guys made it to that earth.
And I agree with Michael that Perez did that page.
Posted by Rockhopper Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by rtvu2: That Earth 462.... the blonde was Wonder Woman from some tv movie. It was Denise Crosby? and she had the blonde hair.
That was Cathy Lee Crosby.
Sounds interesting. Unfortunately, I won't get to the CBS till at least Sunday. Posted by rtvu2 on :
Well, I got part of the name right...anyone want to venture a guess why that was Earth 462? How about the western or the Generations earths?
I get Earth 97 for the Tangent kids.
Posted by superboymddjr on :
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: Click Here For A SpoilerI see Shikari, Kid Quantum II, Cosmic Boy, Karate Kid, Spark, Saturn Girl, Chameleon, M'Onel, Gates, Ultra Boy, Wildfire, Live Wire (strangely with robotic arm), Star Boy, Dreamer Umbra, Sensor, Validus, Emerald Eye, and what I believe is a Dodo form the Blight storyline
and Persuader...
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by rtvu2: That Earth 462.... the blonde was Wonder Woman from some tv movie. It was Denise Crosby? and she had the blonde hair. You can also see Wonder Girl outfit that made it to tv in the Wonder Woman tv series. I can also make out a version of Flash and a firefighter looking Robin. Also it seems like alot of DCs Nazi bad guys made it to that earth.
And I agree with Michael that Perez did that page.
It was definately Perez! Whenever I see him do a page in this series its as cheer-worthy of seeing something happening in the story!
Posted by Stratum on :
Amen to that, Brother!
Jamie
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by superboymddjr:
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: Click Here For A SpoilerI see Shikari, Kid Quantum II, Cosmic Boy, Karate Kid, Spark, Saturn Girl, Chameleon, M'Onel, Gates, Ultra Boy, Wildfire, Live Wire (strangely with robotic arm), Star Boy, Dreamer Umbra, Sensor, Validus, Emerald Eye, and what I believe is a Dodo form the Blight storyline
and Persuader...
What? Is Vi invisible? And who is the blond with the dark (blue?) outfit and skirt? She's between Cos and Garth, under the platform. I know she's someone but I can't quite place her.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Gee, thanks, Scooter. You should know how much I've tried to block that incarnation of Violet out of my mind.
Anyway, I kind of thought the blonde could be a miscolored and back-to-normal Kinetix, but I wasn't sure.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Are you referring to Sensor? If not, I don't see any blonde.
BTW, notice the first appearance of Reboot Chlorophyll Kid right next to Dreamer! Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
She's flying in the background, wearing a skirt, kind of between Cos and Garth. About the same distance as Sensor, I'd say.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Oh. Ha, I see her now.
It can only be Kinetix, restored to her original self, albeit miscolored with Blonde hair. I'll pretend its her normal again. The number '247' must have magical properties that does great things!
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Her transformation into a blonde could be one last nod to her ever-changing appearance!
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
Superboy's hip action has had some very positive effects on characters. Not so positive on others.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
If it brought Garth back to nearly normal, I'll happily learn the Superboy-Prime Dance.
Posted by doublechinner on :
Earth 462 is a mystery to me. The Cathy Lee Crosby Wonder Woman TV movie dates from 1974 (incidentally directed, written and produced by a bunch of Star Trek alums). The Lynda Carter Wonder Woman TV series dates from 1975 and 1976 (when it was revamped to present day.) It can't be the number of starring appearances -- Diana seems to be well over 500 by now.
Posted by opusrph on :
Someone pointed out on another board that Earth 154 + Earth 462 = Earth 616, which is the Marvel universe. Very obscure in-joke.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by doublechinner: It can't be the number of starring appearances -- Diana seems to be well over 500 by now.
Just between WW v1 and v2 she has 555 issues.
Posted by Omni Craig on :
Hmmm...
Since the reboot Legion Earth is #247, what if the JSA one is also Adventure Comics numerically sequenced? Batman of Earth-2 was killed in Adventure Comics #462...
Posted by Omni Craig on :
Just playing this out further... since Earth 247 is not exactly as we remember the reboot Legion, it stands to reason the Earth 462 could be "tweaked" a bit too. I saw a website that mentioned the pre-Crisis Hippolyta was blonde. I don't have any Wonder Woman comics from pre-Crisis handy so I can't look for myself to confirm. Anybody remember? Anywho...what if the tweak on Earth 462 was a blond pre-Crisis Hippolyta being the World War II era Wonder Woman (a la Byrne/post-Crisis)?
Posted by Faraway Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: She's flying in the background, wearing a skirt, kind of between Cos and Garth. About the same distance as Sensor, I'd say.
Well I seem to remember that Lori Morning wore a similay masked and blond haired costume in one of those episodes where she had the dial. Could it be her?
Posted by Omni Craig on :
That's a good guess Faraway, but I was kind of hoping we'd never have to hear the name of "the unspoken, annoying one" ever again in the halls of LW!
Posted by Omni Craig on :
Maybe it's a "tweaked" Andromeda?
Posted by Faraway Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Omni Craig: That's a good guess Faraway, but I was kind of hoping we'd never have to hear the name of "the unspoken, annoying one" ever again in the halls of LW!
Lori Morning
Lori Morning
Lori Morning
Posted by Omni Craig on :
**Hmmm, maybe I can trick Faraway into mentioning Proty=Garth so Scott will ban him???**
Crap, did I just think outloud???!!?!?!
Andromeda
Andromeda
Andromeda
Andromeda (an extra one for good measure!)
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by opusrph: Someone pointed out on another board that Earth 154 + Earth 462 = Earth 616, which is the Marvel universe. Very obscure in-joke.
Wow, that's kinda cool! And those were the two Earths combined together, so I see it as being on purpose.
Posted by EmeraldEmpress on :
And so Superboy (Kon El) die in these crisis, like the former Supergirl. And we have two Superboys dead in the legion history, the first the pocket universe's KaL El in the original run, and now The clone Kon El. Who's the next Super.... to fall in the threeboot?
Posted by Matthew E on :
Well, they're gonna have to find some way of getting Earth-2 Superman off the stage.
Posted by opusrph on :
Well I had thought that Kon was going to be Supernova, but since eveything old is sort of new again, I have the feeling that Supernova is going to be the E2 Superman. During the final battle in IdC #7 he's going to end up an energy being, similar to Electric Superman Red/Blue from years back.
That keeps him around, and keeps the E1 Superman unique.
Posted by toddcam on :
Since this is a discussion of the reboot, does anybody know Bart Allen's origin now?
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
I would assume it will be sorted out once we start finding out the continuity of the New Earth. Maybe it'll be covered in History of the DCU?
Posted by Ultra Boy on :
Anyone care to borrow me $3600 so I can have the original art to this page??
quote:Originally posted by Matthew E: Well, they're gonna have to find some way of getting Earth-2 Superman off the stage.
I think Fortinbras shows up with the Polish army and takes all the dead bodies off stage. Posted by Michael Grabois on :
By the way, that's not "Generations" Earth, that's the one with the Super-Sons (aka Batman Jr. and Superman Jr.). Someone posted a link to a World's Finest cover with the girl in green who's being carried, that's Luthor's daughter.
Posted by Matthew E on :
quote:Originally posted by Nick Vinson: I think Fortinbras shows up with the Polish army and takes all the dead bodies off stage.
I would buy that comic.
Posted by Nick Vinson on :
For some reason I see Booster Gold as Horatio.
Hmmm.
Posted by Star Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by toddcam: Since this is a discussion of the reboot, does anybody know Bart Allen's origin now?
Has Bart been seen anywhere since IC#4? (#5?) I hated the Titans issue following that as everyone moaned about people that had been lost and there was not a single mention of Bart. Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I believe, but am not sure, that they are waiting for Flash #1 before anything concerning Bart is revealed.
Posted by Star Boy on :
Whichever way they slice it, their crappy "One Flash" policy is gonna see me lose either Wally or Bart. Not happy.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Nor am I. Although I do like a lot of what DC is doing (the majority really), I really am not pleased about any losses of Wally West, Bart Allen or Ray Terrill as the Ray.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Well, we know Bart is "retired" per the latest Titans issue, so at least he's okay.
Posted by Star Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: Nor am I. Although I do like a lot of what DC is doing (the majority really), I really am not pleased about any losses of Wally West, Bart Allen or Ray Terrill as the Ray.
*sniff* Ray. *sniff*
quote:Originally posted by EDE: Well, we know Bart is "retired" per the latest Titans issue, so at least he's okay.
Wow! Really! YAY! Thanks for the info EDE! I may have to race out and buy a copy now...
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