The more I think about it, the more I'm really glad Waid did that. You know...I don't really care to see them all join in order again, and wait month after month to see when 'so and so' will join up. That would have annoyed the hell out of me. And I think its evident by people's annoyance with the lack of Violet (and previously Projectra) that others would have felt the same.
So...despite having some reservations about this in the beginning, I have to say kudos to Mr. Waid. I know we'll get to Vi, Brin and hopefully Mon-El in the future, and I'm really holding out for a few others too, but right now I'm glad that we have nearly 20 members.
In a way, this makes it much easier for me to not compare the threeboot to the reboot.
Posted by DrakeB3004 on :
I actually wish that he started with more. I wouldn't mind seeing more Legionnaires onstage even if there isn't time to give them much characterization at the moment.
And how is the team going to overcome that "only as many rings as we can produce" limitation? They're going to have to fall into a lot of money or something...
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
I agree with Drake. I think the minimum for the core Legion should have been at least 25, if not more. Maybe 32?
I'd have loved to see every Adventure era and most of the later pre-boot/pre-Crisis members at the onset. We've waited a long time to see many of them (Bouncing Boy, Matter-Eater Lad, Ferro Lad, Nemesis Kid [no really!], Chemical King, Wildfire, Tyroc, Dawnstar, Blok, Invisible Kid II [I think it'd be nice to see Jacques with a new name and teleportation or dimension-hoping powers], the White Witch, and Polar Boy) as Legionnaires again.
Heck, I'd also have included Tellus & Quislet, in which case having Pol tagging along calling himself Magnetic Kid {playing the wannabe Legionnaire sidekick, annoying his older brother) would have also been appreciated.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Can't agree with you guys more--that's something that could have done nothing but please me. Especially the ones you listed Gary (would love to see Nemesis Kid have a decent stint with the team).
Condo, Wildfire and Dawny especially too, and I am definately in the group of Legion fans that wants love and respect shown to Tenzil and Chuck.
Just knowing they're there would be excitement enough, even if it meant less screen time at first.
Posted by legionadventureman on :
I wrote a note to Barry (on the message board, not in private) about increasing the ranks so that there would be some variety in personality and the possibility of adding to the "couple clicking" dynamic.
I think IMHO that increasing the membership to 25 would strengthen the book in general, because it would help to explain the whereabouts of those not featured in that particular issue's Roll Call - just as it did when Jim Shooter was writing. When Levitz was writing, i think he got too carried away with treating the Legion as people too self-involved with their personal troubles to worry about going off on missions. The cameos by Legionnaires not directly involved with the villain/situation at the moment, got a little wearying after a while.
I know it sounds as if i'm rambling on, but i would like to know that there are those out there who will take what everybody writes, seriously.
Posted by Matthew E on :
I think you guys are wrong, and eighteen may in fact be too many. I mean, I have my missing favourites too (Blok, Mon-El, XS, Shikari, Jacques) but it's really hard to juggle all those characters. You simply don't need all those people to tell a good story, and at a certain point you simply can't do anything with them all.
Is there any superhero group in comics with as many as 18 members at a time? All-Star Squadron had more, sort of, but that was a special (if vaguely comparable) case. The Justice League tended to top out at around fifteen. The Justice Society had only eight at a time in its heyday, and the Fantastic Four have managed to get by for a few years with less than ten members.
Waid and Kitson have a good comic book going here; no reason to try to overload it.
Posted by Jorg-EM on :
I'm with the bigger number. I mean it's a Legion right? Oh wait they are called that because of the members of the movement??? Eh. (who are atleast 75% funky alien it seems but we only get Cham on the team).
20 to 25 sounds good. Heck 32 sounds good. We've seen writers able to juggle it before. It's a bit early on so I don't mind the small cast. WE HAVEN'T SEEN VI!!! So I can chill trying to see more the actual team we have now.
BUT I hope to see new members join soon. I am still really suprised with the Adv Legion only thing.
Posted by Caliente on :
I must admit, as a new reader, I'm glad they've started with less members. It gives me a chance to learn about them at a pace that doesn't make my head hurt. Much.
Don't get me wrong -- I'm excited at the prospects of Mon, Vi and Dawnstar (to name a few) but I know virtually nothing about the various planets the Legionnaires hail from and how they interact/related etc. etc. So it's really nice to have the universe as a whole introduced at an understandable pace for a newb like me.
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
I guess its all personal taste. Whenever I start reading a series, I'm more excited and enjoy it more when there's a ton of characters to learn about and get to know. You thirst for more! Like Kurt Busiek's Astro City for example, part of the charm is that there's all of these characters to meet and stories to be told. It's the anticipation and glimpses of possibilites you don't get from a solo book or a book about the same group of four/seven/whatever.
I guess that's what makes me a Legion fan.
And anyway, all of these characters I've mentioned already exist or have existed as members so seeing them again as such shouldn't be that big of a deal. You can spend as much time or as little telling their individual stories. It's not like this is a brand new team book with absolutely no previous history. The characters existed once, what's wrong with having them around in the background now.
[ August 29, 2005, 08:59 PM: Message edited by: Nightcrawler ]
Posted by KidChaos on :
While I miss many of the reboot and post-Shooter legionnaires, I'm not sure it would be a good idea to include them in the current series.
Having only the Adventure-era members works well with the tone and "feel" Waid is trying to establish.
With that said, there is still no excuse for the lack of Bouncing Boy and ME Lad. Dosen't Waid see that they would fit in perfectly with this incarnation?? Silly/fun Silver Age retro-chique is all the rage these days!
Posted by Gina DC on :
All that said, I'm certain the lack of P-BOLs /is/ in fact a plot point...
...as it was when the Trapper pitted Legion against Legion against Legion, with the P-BOLs trapped haplessly with him in his weird FLWrightian hangout outside time.
Posted by Invisible Brainiac on :
That's a pretty ineteresting hypothesis, Gina. That would make for a pretty cool story, too!
I dunno, I think Waid could always write the other Legionnaires in a way that would make them fit the "feel" that he's going for. XS and Kinetix, for example, fit in very well with the early reboot cast. Monstress' personality would be perfect, I think, and even Gates could be reimagined in such a way. Polar Boy and the White Witch were also intro'd in the Adventure Era.
Posted by Caliente on :
I thought Gates was part of Terra Firma...
...and I MISS XS~!!! *sob!!!* I think she should be called Flash Girl or something lame if she does show up. But I kinda doubt she'll be showing up any time soon what with the crisis and her strong ties with the Flash Family (effed up) continiuty.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by Nightcrawler: I guess its all personal taste. Whenever I start reading a series, I'm more excited and enjoy it more when there's a ton of characters to learn about and get to know. You thirst for more! Like Kurt Busiek's Astro City for example, part of the charm is that there's all of these characters to meet and stories to be told. It's the anticipation and glimpses of possibilites you don't get from a solo book or a book about the same group of four/seven/whatever.
Whole-heartedly agree. Also, it's much more usual for me to pick up a new series with a large cast than one with a very small. It just seems like there's so much more for me to get into--and Gary used the best example, Kurt Busiek's Astro City. In another example, I think Iron Man was a much better comic when he had a large supporting cast, and Spider-Man too.
Posted by Jorg-EM on :
Bingo on the supporting cast. I am still waiting to see more of a sppt cast here as well. I love Levitz's handle on the SPs. Posted by Tamper Lad on :
I've always loved the big cast team books. Actually I don't think I've ever collected more than a short run on any solo title in 20 years of reading comics (DERN IT, has it been that long?).
It was Claremont back in the day and now its JSA and Legion but what I like hasn't really changed. I guess I like arcs in solo books but i need the an everchanging, wide variety of character interactions to stay long-term
Posted by doublechinner on :
I'm just glad we started with a real Legion. The Legion is one of those concepts (like the Fantastic Four) where the origin is a LOT less important and compelling than the current dynamic among the characters. I think the reboot got in trouble by focusing too much on the assembly of the team and not enough on what to do with the team afterword. I can also say that I really do NOT miss R.J. Brande. Levitz might have done some interesting things with the character, but he was way overused and a TOTAL cliche throughout the whole of the reboot. I always liked the Legion better when they were operating without adult supervision.
Posted by Vee on :
quote:Originally posted by Nightcrawler: I agree with Drake. I think the minimum for the core Legion should have been at least 25, if not more. Maybe 32?
I'd have loved to see every Adventure era and most of the later pre-boot/pre-Crisis members at the onset. We've waited a long time to see many of them (Bouncing Boy, Matter-Eater Lad, Ferro Lad, Nemesis Kid [no really!], Chemical King, Wildfire, Tyroc, Dawnstar, Blok, Invisible Kid II [I think it'd be nice to see Jacques with a new name and teleportation or dimension-hoping powers], the White Witch, and Polar Boy) as Legionnaires again.
Heck, I'd also have included Tellus & Quislet, in which case having Pol tagging along calling himself Magnetic Kid {playing the wannabe Legionnaire sidekick, annoying his older brother) would have also been appreciated.
I'd love to see all of these as well and would add XS, Night Girl (come on, she's the only Sub that never became a Legionnaire...it's her time).
Regarding Hart (Nemesis Kid), I think it would be awesome if he and some of the others were part of Lemnos' group (not necessarily Terror Ferma but the larger group) who eventually switch sides (a la Blok) and help resolve this opening crisis by tipping the balance in the Legion's favor.
Posted by legionadventureman on :
quote:Originally posted by Vee:
quote:Originally posted by Nightcrawler: I agree with Drake. I think the minimum for the core Legion should have been at least 25, if not more. Maybe 32?
I'd have loved to see every Adventure era and most of the later pre-boot/pre-Crisis members at the onset. We've waited a long time to see many of them (Bouncing Boy, Matter-Eater Lad, Ferro Lad, Nemesis Kid [no really!], Chemical King, Wildfire, Tyroc, Dawnstar, Blok, Invisible Kid II [I think it'd be nice to see Jacques with a new name and teleportation or dimension-hoping powers], the White Witch, and Polar Boy) as Legionnaires again.
Heck, I'd also have included Tellus & Quislet, in which case having Pol tagging along calling himself Magnetic Kid {playing the wannabe Legionnaire sidekick, annoying his older brother) would have also been appreciated.
I'd love to see all of these as well and would add XS, Night Girl (come on, she's the only Sub that never became a Legionnaire...it's her time).
Regarding Hart (Nemesis Kid), I think it would be awesome if he and some of the others were part of Lemnos' group (not necessarily Terror Ferma but the larger group) who eventually switch sides (a la Blok) and help resolve this opening crisis by tipping the balance in the Legion's favor.
A larger group would create sub-plots which would then lead to further stories...and instead of splitting the team into two factions such as was done in the PMS run, use that tried and true Shooter method - alternate the members into various mission groups and have them occupy the 22 or so pages without the irrelevant cameos by other members...
Posted by Jorg-EM on :
Exactomundo. Levitz would focus on certain characters over a period of time but most the adventures/missions would only have or two of those characters.
The subplots is where you focus on a handful of characters for a time. I think Waid is doing this now actually. I am guessing the next plot won't be so heavy on Cos or Brainy.
As for RJ Brande? Agreed. I thought he was cool when it was revealed he was Cham's dad. But that's over and done. I think his arc and need is done. Posted by Harbinger on :
I thought 18 was okay to start with - maybe after the first year is done we'll see more - I'd especially love to see less obviously human looking members - Gates, Tellus and Quislet, as well as Wildfire, Blok, White Witch, Monstress (yes really!) and Dawnstar.
Also, there are just too many white characters - lets see Kid Quantum, XS, Computo, Dragonmage and Tyroc all returned to the group. Nemesis Kid would be a winner too - great thinking Gary!
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
I think the cartoon JUSTICE LEAGUE UNLIMITED is doing the best job so far for having a true LEGION of members. By showing various members in the background and occasionally seeing them use their powers in the big battles. A little here, a little there. It makes you long for more rather than feeling confusing and upsetting.
With a group like the Legion, who are supposed to patrol and protect at least a Galaxy, they should have a much larger (and as many are pointing out) diverse cast. In fact, this thread is adding more to my must have list. I think I'm up to at least 50 now.
[ August 31, 2005, 12:37 PM: Message edited by: Nightcrawler ]
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
What's this 18 stuff all about?
I thought we had 75,000 Legionnaires! Posted by wamu2 on :
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: What's this 18 stuff all about?
I thought we had 75,000 Legionnaires!
yeah. and if only that many people were buying this book each month, Waid would be kicking the Titans butts. Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
Actually, that brings up an interesting possibility. Given that the "legionnaires" are supposed to represent the fans in some way, I wonder if the initial 75,000 figure might have been based on estimates of what sales would be for the new series...
Posted by Tamper Lad on :
Did you see in the latest letter column that Ayla said it was now 100k strong. I think EDE's right the fans around are some sort of allegory.
Note the argument about Cos and Brainy in this issue. And didn't some of the dialog echo "The I'm so sick of the Legion fighting each other" chatter we've had around here. I'd imagine that they'd have arguments over whether Light lass or Dream girl looked better with Star Boy as well.
It'd be cute if they had a fan vote for leader and did it as a mass vote by all the legionnaires outside as part of the story.
Posted by legionadventureman on :
quote:Originally posted by Tamper Lad: Did you see in the latest letter column that Ayla said it was now 100k strong. I think EDE's right the fans around are some sort of allegory.
Note the argument about Cos and Brainy in this issue. And didn't some of the dialog echo "The I'm so sick of the Legion fighting each other" chatter we've had around here. I'd imagine that they'd have arguments over whether Light lass or Dream girl looked better with Star Boy as well.
It'd be cute if they had a fan vote for leader and did it as a mass vote by all the legionnaires outside as part of the story.
Well, seeing as Waid put the current membership as they were in the ADVENTURE days, Tamper Lad, (with a few glaring omissions), your comment concerning how readers ought to be writing in to vote for the next Legion leader, should invoke the appropriate nostalgic feeling that the current book really needs right now.
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But I kinda doubt she'll be showing up any time soon what with the crisis and her strong ties with the Flash Family (effed up) continiuty.
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