This is topic Calling the Roll of THE LEGION #32 ..... (spoilers) in forum Long Live the Legion! at Legion World.


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Posted by Mystery Lad on :
 
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Calling the Roll is a character by character look at the latest issue featuring the teen-team supreme of the 31st century... the Legion of Super Heroes.

Let the Roll be called!

[Lightning Lad] [Element Lad] GARTH-IN-JAN: Now we know crystalline hair can be combed back, for that mature, ten-years-older-than-you-are look. I wonder... does it grow? If Garth gets a haircut, will the cutting grow into little Garths (or Jans)? Guess he's using all the time he'd usually spend sleeping to try out new styles.

He should get together with Dreamer and Wildfire (who I assume doesn't sleep either... but we don't know, do we?) They could form the Legion's Insomnia Squad.

Page one, panel four... Page 10, panel three... Page 11, panel five... page 16, panel three... AAAAAACCCKKK!!! Enough already!

Blue folks have got to stick together, so Garth steps in to Umbra's rescue.

Once again Garth shows the stuff of which he's made (and I don't mean crystal, baby). He's been mostly pretty graceful in the way he's handled the curves thrown at him lately. By the end of LOST, he'd truly matured into an admirable, heroic man who deserved to appear in the iconic founding three. It's nice to see that again, though his eagerness to sacrifice himself rang just a tad 'death-wishy'. I would've liked to see some scheming going on here.

[Shikari] SHIKARI: I really would've like to see "Kari step up to the plate here. We get one or two lines from the character most personally connected to the second galaxy. Whatever happened to that old Legion tradition of the Legionnaire from a particular planet leading any mission to that planet? Instead of that scenario, we see Kid Quantum, Cosmic Boy and Saturn Girl once again at the lead. Shikari facing Singularity would've been *much* more effective, IMO.

[Brainiac 5] BRAINIAC 5: He didn't get much dialogue, but Batista gives him very expressive body language. You can sort of guess the tone of his thoughts by his poses. Nice work.

[Shadow Lass] UMBRA: Hmmmm... Umbra and Superboy !???!!

Another character whose unique take on things would've been worth 'hearing'. What did she think of her return to the second galaxy?

SUPERBOY: So if Cos told Supes *not* to read a briefing, wouldn't you think that'd tempt Kon to give it a peek?

M'ONEL: I think Lar should make the look on page four his permanent one. Definitely.

Wouldn't 'Exposition Lad' have first thought 'Element Lad' instead of 'Progenitor'? For just a second? C'mon... can't at least *one* damn character think about Jan first?

TIMBER WOLF: Best he's looked since his introduction. Interesting that he's sort of taking the old Wildfire role of training/supervising cadets. Or perhaps all of the Legionnaires will be shown working with them from time to time.

"One punch" . Hee.

[Cosmic Boy] COSMIC BOY: Rokk's as pleased as a different kind of punch with his girlfriend/hand-picked leader, isn't he? Wonder if he's also pleased that Superboy actually listened to him and didn't read the briefing? Or was he attempting reverse psychology?

SATURN GIRL: At least Imra takes up for Jan here. I'm glad to see that. I wonder if she has a bigger role to play next issue? Otherwise, she's a bit extraneous.

KID QUANTUM: I could've done without the raised finger. Stereotypical. Am I being rascist if I say that I imagined it wagging when I read her dialogue?

Was it wise to give away the Legionnaire's abilities in her speech? Star Boy, M'onel, Saturn Girl and Jaz herself are robbed of the element of surprise.

ULTRA BOY and APPARITION: Rapprochement?

VIOLET: Can't wait to hear what Vi has to say... I LOVED seeing her on Cos' shoulder. Thank you!

The 'little voice' in a character's hear is a great role for Vi.

SINGULARITY: Ugh. Still, I sort of enjoyed him not letting Jaz get a word in edgewise, even if he is scum. He's a politician, it seems. Last page... transmutation? Did Singularity display an energy-effect before? I've forgotten... Will a being made of crystal resonate 'like to like'?

CREDOITES: Interesting designs... the masked, pink-haired cat being... the plant being (or is it a being wearing a shrub?)... always a treat.

SUMMING UP: My antennae are raised and quivering for next issue... which really should be an extra-sized one for all the story left to tell. Was the flashback originally meant to be a whole issue all on its own? Or even more? Poor, neglected Gates and Kinetix... shuffled to the side once again. They're the reboot Princess Projectra... who once went from suffering from Rigel Fever to the Pain Plague in a couple of close-together issues. Gates has Incarceration Fever... Zoe, the Meaningless Transformation Plague. Who, oh, who will step in to absorb their pain?

Anyone who has read CTR knows I'm an Element Lad fan. For me, reading page after page referencing Element Lad's 'evil' was painful. I have concerns... I'll leave it at that. But also a smidgeon of hope that still burns... Will it be enough?

TN
 
Posted by Sanity or Madness? on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Mystery Lad:
GARTH-IN-JAN: Now we know crystalline hair can be combed back, for that mature, ten-years-older-than-you-are look. I wonder... does it grow? If Garth gets a haircut, will the cutting grow into little Garths (or Jans)? Guess he's using all the time he'd usually spend sleeping to try out new styles.
I don't think there's anything special about the crystal when Garth's not animating it. He should really get a "Garth" haircut tho. And maybe a resculpt into a Garth-face...

And a non-Element Lad costume.

And obvious question - the way it was described here, doesn't this basically make Garth (and quite possibly Ayla and Mekt by extension) immortal? Just get them hosts that can take an all-the-power-they've-got blast (clones even? If they have a sample of Garth's DNA - or even get a sample from Ayla and "edit" it slightly to make the clone male - would the clone body be able to take him?) and hey presto...

quote:
Page one, panel four... Page 10, panel three... Page 11, panel five... page 16, panel three... AAAAAACCCKKK!!! Enough already!
Heh. Well it's all true. And remember Jan spent less than 0.00000001% of his life as Element Lad...

Let's be honest here, it's a similar situation to Hal Jordan. A hardcore want him back, the rest see that the character went too far over the edge...

quote:
Once again Garth shows the stuff of which he's made (and I don't mean crystal, baby). He's been mostly pretty graceful in the way he's handled the curves thrown at him lately. By the end of LOST, he'd truly matured into an admirable, heroic man who deserved to appear in the iconic founding three. It's nice to see that again, though his eagerness to sacrifice himself rang just a tad 'death-wishy'. I would've liked to see some scheming going on here.
I'm not entirely convinced there isn't a degree of 'death-wishy'ness here. Whether or not it's his primary motivation is another matter of course, but I think there's definately a part of Garth here that'd welcome the dark...

quote:
SHIKARI: I really would've like to see "Kari step up to the plate here. We get one or two lines from the character most personally connected to the second galaxy. Whatever happened to that old Legion tradition of the Legionnaire from a particular planet leading any mission to that planet? Instead of that scenario, we see Kid Quantum, Cosmic Boy and Saturn Girl once again at the lead. Shikari facing Singularity would've been *much* more effective, IMO.
Well, KQ2 *is* the leader, so I suppose she has veto, Cos seems to be deputy, besides the rest, and, logically, a telepath's good to have in fraught "negotiations."

quote:
BRAINIAC 5: He didn't get much dialogue, but Batista gives him very expressive body language. You can sort of guess the tone of his thoughts by his poses. Nice work.
mechana, if you'd please revert his forcefield to white/blue edges? [Frown]

quote:
UMBRA: Hmmmm... Umbra and Superboy !???!!
I think that comment merits an official "huh?"

And the lack of rection from some characters *could* be attributed to this only being a two-parter.

Could.

quote:
SUPERBOY: So if Cos told Supes *not* to read a briefing, wouldn't you think that'd tempt Kon to give it a peek?
Yeah, but hey, that costume seems to have sucked his brains out.

Speaking of costumes...

quote:
M'ONEL: I think Lar should make the look on page four his permanent one. Definitely.
Well, it would have been better than what he ended up with. [Frown]

DAMN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And they are just going to ignore all the story stuff related to that costume?!?!?! Either he should be mobbed by people who think he's their living god, or villified by people who think he's blaspheming their god. At the very least there should be riots hundreds of times bigger than the ones Kon's stupid costume caused...

Hell, half the frelling Legionnaires don't know he's Valor!!!

Not to mention the impression given that he only put it on because he didn't have any real costumes spare...

Really, those two costumes are sucking most of the enjoyment out of this for me.

And "old friend" to Kon? Okay, Lar owes him a lot, but he's met him TWICE before! Once in the fight they had while he was amnesiac that ended with him in the Statis Zone, and once when he got him out. That's IT!

[YJ: OWWWWW doesn't count, since that was an alternate reality Lar]

quote:
Wouldn't 'Exposition Lad' have first thought 'Element Lad' instead of 'Progenitor'? For just a second? C'mon... can't at least *one* damn character think about Jan first?
Lar's had to deal with [at least] six weeks of Jan-directed hatred. Wouldn't make sense if he didn't jump a little at seeing Jarth after that, knowing what Jan did for billions of years.

quote:
TIMBER WOLF: Best he's looked since his introduction. Interesting that he's sort of taking the old Wildfire role of training/supervising cadets. Or perhaps all of the Legionnaires will be shown working with them from time to time.
I expect it's the latter.

quote:
"One punch" . Hee.
Heh. Doesn't match Batman's one punch tho [Smile]

quote:
COSMIC BOY: Rokk's as pleased as a different kind of punch with his girlfriend/hand-picked leader, isn't he? Wonder if he's also pleased that Superboy actually listened to him and didn't read the briefing? Or was he attempting reverse psychology?
Reverse psych I expect.

quote:
SATURN GIRL: At least Imra takes up for Jan here. I'm glad to see that. I wonder if she has a bigger role to play next issue? Otherwise, she's a bit extraneous.
Like I said, makes sense to have the telepath around.

And hey, Garth is still technically her fiancé, isn't he?

quote:
KID QUANTUM: I could've done without the raised finger. Stereotypical. Am I being rascist if I say that I imagined it wagging when I read her dialogue?
Remind me to dig out that scan of Batista's Jolt from TBolts 72 or 74 at some point...

quote:
Was it wise to give away the Legionnaire's abilities in her speech? Star Boy, M'onel, Saturn Girl and Jaz herself are robbed of the element of surprise.
Well, how are you going to defend against them easily?

What I was more concerned about is that she listed "turn back time" as if she could do it consistantly now, rather than a one-off...

quote:
ULTRA BOY and APPARITION: Rapprochement?
Maybe. Not much to go on either way.

quote:
SINGULARITY: Ugh. Still, I sort of enjoyed him not letting Jaz get a word in edgewise, even if he is scum. He's a politician, it seems. Last page... transmutation? Did Singularity display an energy-effect before? I've forgotten...
Yup - check the last page of Lost #6, and various points in Lost 7 (e.g. p14)

quote:
Anyone who has read CTR knows I'm an Element Lad fan. For me, reading page after page referencing Element Lad's 'evil' was painful. I have concerns... I'll leave it at that. But also a smidgeon of hope that still burns... Will it be enough?
If Hal Crapadan can come back. Maybe.

[ April 30, 2004, 09:15 AM: Message edited by: Sanity or Madness? ]
 
Posted by Spellbinder on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Mystery Lad:
SUPERBOY: So if Cos told Supes *not* to read a briefing, wouldn't you think that'd tempt Kon to give it a peek?
Keep in mind that I haven't read the issue, but I'm assuming the debriefing was on an omnicom or something. If so, then theoretically Kon shouldn't have been able to read it. I mean, wouldn't it be written in Interlac? Unless of course Kon has managed to squeeze in some language courses since he's been back to the future...
 
Posted by Tromium Crystal on :
 
GARTH-IN-JAN: Now we know crystalline hair can be combed back, for that mature, ten-years-older-than-you-are look. I wonder... does it grow? If Garth gets a haircut, will the cutting grow into little Garths (or Jans)? Guess he's using all the time he'd usually spend sleeping to try out new styles.

Mineral-based hair is extremely difficult to style, but once you get it the way you like it, it tends to stay put. [Smile]

I'm relieved to see even the most subtle change in Garth's appearance. I tell myself (not altogether convincingly) I can deal with this strange communion a while longer if only he looks less like Jan.

Garth's difficulty filling "the empty hours" on Legion World just serves to heighten our sense of Jan's utter aloneness during his billion-year sojurn in space.

To respond to SoM's idea: yes, I think it's quite possible all the Ranzz siblings are effectively immortal under certain circumstances, i.e., their electrical energy is captured in another form before it dissipates. Just one of the many loopholes provided to the next creative team. I hope they find another way of migrating him, however. I hate clones.

----------------------

Once again Garth shows the stuff of which he's made (and I don't mean crystal, baby). He's been mostly pretty graceful in the way he's handled the curves thrown at him lately. By the end of LOST, he'd truly matured into an admirable, heroic man who deserved to appear in the iconic founding three. It's nice to see that again, though his eagerness to sacrifice himself rang just a tad 'death-wishy'. I would've liked to see some scheming going on here.

He does seem more philosophical and accepting of his fate now, as if something of Jan's innate serenity actually rubbed off on him. If his death and transformation accomplishes anything, it might be to realign his personality with that of the (slightly) more even-tempered pre-boot Garth. Many readers are so turned off about the whole "Jarth" thing, they've overlooked some fine moments of characterization in this issue. The writers and artists were faced the challenge of getting Garth's misembodied persona across with only dialogue and body language. They convinced me.

I suspect there *is* scheming going on here -- off panel. In light of his outburst, it's easy to assume that Garth was defying orders by surrendering himself to the Credo. But between the time he stalks off and his arrival at the Credo base, he might have been convinced to participate in a more sensible plan of action. Perhaps he really isn't alone at all.

-------------------------

UMBRA: Hmmmm... Umbra and Superboy !???!!

I'm not sure what you're implying here! Why didn't Umbra attack with her dark field instead of relying on martial arts? I was horrified by the image of my beloved Tasmia almost getting scalped. Lucky for her that Garth is instinctively protective of beautiful women. Hmmmm....

----------------------

M'ONEL: Wouldn't 'Exposition Lad' have first thought 'Element Lad' instead of 'Progenitor'? For just a second? C'mon... can't at least *one* damn character think about Jan first?

See my next comment. What struck me here is that M'onel didn't react with revulsion toward "Jarth"; he even showed him some warmth. This does nothing to help Jan, of course, but reflects well on Mon, in that he apparently doesn't equate Jan's physical form with something monstrous. In the panel where he clasps Live Wire by the shoulders, we see Saturn Girl and Cosmic Boy looking on...maybe with a tinge of guilt that they were incapable of the same generosity of spirit towards their co-founder.

I'm so pleased to see Mon back...with his new (old) costume.

-------------------------

SATURN GIRL: At least Imra takes up for Jan here. I'm glad to see that. I wonder if she has a bigger role to play next issue? Otherwise, she's a bit extraneous.

Both Saturn Girl and Live Wire are under the impression that educating Singularity about Jan will serve some purpose. I honestly doubt that knowing Element Lad's tragic history would sway this "misguided monster" (unless my theory below proves true). Nonetheless, there are two Legionnaires, at least, who've not forgotten that Jan was once a "good man".

Imra standing around doing nothing in particular might seem extraneous, but I think it's important she of all people witness Garth finally exerting his personality.

-------------------------

VIOLET: Can't wait to hear what Vi has to say... I LOVED seeing her on Cos' shoulder. Thank you!

Maybe little Vi was reminding Cos of the Subterfuge Squad!

-------------------------

SINGULARITY: Ugh. Still, I sort of enjoyed him not letting Jaz get a word in edgewise, even if he is scum. He's a politician, it seems. Last page... transmutation? Did Singularity display an energy-effect before? I've forgotten... Will a being made of crystal resonate 'like to like'?

Yes, he displayed a green energy-effect in Legion Lost. So did Jan. BTW, have you heard my brilliant theory that Singularity is the only begotten son of Element Lad?

-------------------------

CREDOITES: Interesting designs... the masked, pink-haired cat being... the plant being (or is it a being wearing a shrub?)... always a treat.

Batista's terrific work rendering the various Credo species in this issue just makes it that much harder to say goodbye.

-------------------------

Anyone who has read CTR knows I'm an Element Lad fan. For me, reading page after page referencing Element Lad's 'evil' was painful. I have concerns... I'll leave it at that. But also a smidgeon of hope that still burns... Will it be enough?

I don't know what other people were expecting, but since I was long ago disabused of the notion that DnA would resolve the Garth-in-Jan thing during their run, I was free to enjoy this issue on other levels. As we bid farewell to this creative team the best I can possibly hope for is a few redemptive words in memory of the real Jan Arrah before they close the book. But even if DnA's last take on "Legion Lost" doesn't answer all our questions about Element Lad's ultimate fate, there's always the possibility that Waid and company will reingnite that "smidgeon of hope" in the future. Maybe we should start a campaign now.
 
Posted by Awkward Pause Boy on :
 
Originally posted by Mystery Lad:
GARTH-IN-JAN: By the end of LOST, he'd truly matured into an admirable, heroic man who deserved to appear in the iconic founding three.

If you say so. I may have developed a block regarding his personality because, to me, he’s mostly seemed like a marionette—devoid of self-awareness and prone to whatever random actions fulfill the plot that was written.

…his eagerness to sacrifice himself rang just a tad 'death-wishy'. I would've liked to see some scheming going on here.

I have to believe that something else was going on from the beginning. To have all of the legionnaires fly in, ask for the hostages, and then leave empty-handed was just bizarre. Wasn’t Winema consulted? Wouldn’t the entire UP have taken issue with its envoy being taken hostage? Wouldn’t the Legion have needed to address Credo’s attack on Amshana as well? Wouldn’t Monel have been able to tell them that the “show-of-force” ploy would not have worked, and that it wouldn’t be enough if it did? So, anyway, I had to assume there was something else in the works—which just made the scene with Jazmin and Jarth arguing a bit silly. Anyone there should have been able to speak up and say that A: Singularity was lying and B: We’ve got a plan in the works anyway.

SHIKARI: I really would've like to see "Kari step up to the plate here. We get one or two lines from the character most personally connected to the second galaxy.

It would be nice to see more from her about the whole mess. Instead we got one line while she was fighting her path-kin—and a faintly-remembered line about the whole progenitor business way back at the end of Lost/beginning of Legion.

BRAINIAC 5: He didn't get much dialogue, but Batista gives him very expressive body language. You can sort of guess the tone of his thoughts by his poses. Nice work.

I didn’t get much from Brainy’s poses, specifically. Maybe I was just paying attention to other folks’ poses. I do, though, prefer the yellow force fields.

UMBRA: ...Another character whose unique take on things would've been worth 'hearing'. What did she think of her return to the second galaxy?

And you’d think Singularity would have at least acknowledged her battling him to a near standstill.

SUPERBOY: ...

I’m much more comfortable with his role this issue, probably just because he wasn’t in the spotlight.

M'ONEL: I think Lar should make the look on page four his permanent one. Definitely.

Now, now. We all know it’s the females who get to wear thongs and bikinis. Males have to cover everything with as much bulky material as possible. Voila—his new uniform.

Wouldn't 'Exposition Lad' have first thought 'Element Lad' instead of 'Progenitor'? For just a second? C'mon... can't at least *one* damn character think about Jan first?

Heavens no. And to think most of them did not even live through it. They sure must have gotten a good dose of the Legion Lost team’s perspective from somewhere.

TIMBER WOLF: Best he's looked since his introduction...

I didn’t really pay attention to him. It’s probably for the best.

COSMIC BOY: Rokk's as pleased as a different kind of punch with his girlfriend/hand-picked leader, isn't he?

Yes. I really wouldn’t mind a leadership shake-up. Or maybe even a disagreement.

SATURN GIRL: At least Imra takes up for Jan here. I'm glad to see that.

I was too. I have a special appreciation for Jan and Imra’s preboot relationship. I always thought there wasn’t enough shown of it. So, her sticking up for him harkens back to those days for me.

KID QUANTUM: ...

She sure suddenly seems the smooth and in-control leader. I guess facing Darkseid can lead one to be a bit more confident. I just kept wondering, “Aren’t these teenagers?”

ULTRA BOY and APPARITION: Rapprochement?

Is it? Perhaps we’ll finally find out in another year or so.

VIOLET: Can't wait to hear what Vi has to say... I LOVED seeing her on Cos' shoulder. Thank you!...The 'little voice' in a character's hear is a great role for Vi.

Agree completely.

SINGULARITY: ...

Lot’s of possible story with this fellow. I wouldn’t have pictured him leading a cult when he was originally introduced, but I suppose he regarded his planet as his followers previously.

CREDOITES: Interesting designs... the masked, pink-haired cat being... the plant being (or is it a being wearing a shrub?)... always a treat.

It is a good mix.

SUMMING UP: My antennae are raised and quivering for next issue... which really should be an extra-sized one for all the story left to tell...

How refreshing it will be if there really is a lot of story and action in a single issue. It’s already hard to believe that this arc wasn’t extended to the obligatory 4 or 5 issues.

Poor, neglected Gates and Kinetix... shuffled to the side once again. They're the reboot Princess Projectra... who once went from suffering from Rigel Fever to the Pain Plague in a couple of close-together issues. Gates has Incarceration Fever... Zoe, the Meaningless Transformation Plague. Who, oh, who will step in to absorb their pain?

And to think of all that Gates would have had to say about the whole cult mentality...and all of the standing that Zoe could have done.

Anyone who has read CTR knows I'm an Element Lad fan. For me, reading page after page referencing Element Lad's 'evil' was painful. I have concerns... I'll leave it at that. But also a smidgeon of hope that still burns... Will it be enough?

Remember when Jan left his teammates behind so he could confront Roxxas alone and sacrificed his life to eliminate the threat Roxxas posed to other worlds...sigh...
 
Posted by Sanity or Madness? on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Mystery Lad:
KID QUANTUM: I could've done without the raised finger. Stereotypical. Am I being rascist if I say that I imagined it wagging when I read her dialogue?
quote:
Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?:Remind me to dig out that scan of Batista's Jolt from TBolts 72 or 74 at some point...
Re: that scan (from TB 74):

-

[ April 30, 2004, 04:57 PM: Message edited by: Sanity or Madness? ]
 
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?:
I don't think there's anything special about the crystal when Garth's not animating it. He should really get a "Garth" haircut tho. And maybe a resculpt into a Garth-face...

And a non-Element Lad costume.
We don't really know anything about the properties of the crystals one way or the other. My comment was a joking one, but crystals *do* grow...

If GIJ *doesn't* do something about his appearance, even to the point of continuing to wear Jan's costume, the writers should make us privy to his reasons for keeping things as they are. Shock value? Affinity for Jan? Guilt? Pride? Anger? Did he watch Ingmar Bergman's PERSONA too many times?

quote:
Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?:

And obvious question - the way it was described here, doesn't this basically make Garth (and quite possibly Ayla and Mekt by extension) immortal? Just get them hosts that can take an all-the-power-they've-got blast (clones even? If they have a sample of Garth's DNA - or even get a sample from Ayla and "edit" it slightly to make the clone male - would the clone body be able to take him?) and hey presto...
Hmmm... immortal or already dead? Have Garth, Ayla and Mekt been walking around as if alive since being eloctrocuted to death on Korbal? 'Lightning Zombie'...

I wonder if the more likely possibilites you mentioned will ever be examined?

quote:
Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?:

Heh. Well it's all true. And remember Jan spent less than 0.00000001% of his life as Element Lad...
I *hate* that argument. Holds no weight with me at all. Sorry.

quote:
Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?:

Let's be honest here, it's a similar situation to Hal Jordan. A hardcore want him back, the rest see that the character went too far over the edge...
Yep. I'll cop to that. I admit it. But I think there's a big difference between Hal Jordan and Jan Arrah. For one thing, the Progenitor's account of what happened is still the claims of a *supervillain*. One wearing the face of a familiar character, yes. Different from Hal's breakdown.

quote:
Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?:

I'm not entirely convinced there isn't a degree of 'death-wishy'ness here. Whether or not it's his primary motivation is another matter of course, but I think there's definately a part of Garth here that'd welcome the dark...
I think you might be right. Which makes a nice, perverse twist in Garth's primarily heroic character.

quote:
Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?:

Well, KQ2 *is* the leader, so I suppose she has veto, Cos seems to be deputy, besides the rest, and, logically, a telepath's good to have in fraught "negotiations."
I don't dispute that, but the leader doesn't have to 'ride point' in every storyline, do they?

quote:
Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?:

I think that comment merits an official "huh?"
I know, I know. I left out a sentence with a silly, speculative bit of Legionnaire matchmaking.

quote:
Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?:

And the lack of rection from some characters *could* be attributed to this only being a two-parter.

Could.
Which was conceived as a longer storyline, I'm sure.

quote:
Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?:

And they are just going to ignore all the story stuff related to that costume?!?!?! Either he should be mobbed by people who think he's their living god, or villified by people who think he's blaspheming their god. At the very least there should be riots hundreds of times bigger than the ones Kon's stupid costume caused...
Perhaps M'onel will be taken for a devotee of Valorism, rather than as the return of a new Messiah.

quote:
Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?:

Hell, half the frelling Legionnaires don't know he's Valor!!!
I'm not so sure that's still the case. Remember M'onel and Apparition swapping stories with Gear and others around?

quote:
Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?:

Not to mention the impression given that he only put it on because he didn't have any real costumes spare...
That was dumb. The Athramites would have any number of new outfits planned out for all the Legionnaires, I'm sure.

quote:
Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?:

Really, those two costumes are sucking most of the enjoyment out of this for me.
Wow. Sorry. But at least you're reacting to valid story concerns rather than aesthetic snobbery.

quote:
Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?:

And "old friend" to Kon? Okay, Lar owes him a lot, but he's met him TWICE before! Once in the fight they had while he was amnesiac that ended with him in the Statis Zone, and once when he got him out. That's IT!
Clearly the quality of friendship is not proportional to the quantity of time spent together. Maybe Lar watched Kon for years after being placed in the Stasis Zone, and therefore feels closer to Kon than Kon would to him.

quote:
Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?:

Lar's had to deal with [at least] six weeks of Jan-directed hatred. Wouldn't make sense if he didn't jump a little at seeing Jarth after that, knowing what Jan did for billions of years.
I'd like for just one character to think of Jan first, the Progenitor second no matter what the circumstances. With this large a cast, is that so much to ask?

quote:
Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?:

And hey, Garth is still technically her fiancé, isn't he?
Huh-- at least till he talks to Tinya for awhile, he might be.

quote:
Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?:

Well, how are you going to defend against them easily?

What I was more concerned about is that she listed "turn back time" as if she could do it consistantly now, rather than a one-off...
Maybe she'll turn the crystal body's time back to when it was floating in space just after entering the second galaxy from outside the universe.

quote:
Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?:

Yup - check the last page of Lost #6, and various points in Lost 7 (e.g. p14)
Thanks.

quote:
Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?:

If Hal Crapadan can come back. Maybe.
It was only a matter of time.

Thanks for the lively responses, SOM.

TN
 
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Spellbinder:
Keep in mind that I haven't read the issue, but I'm assuming the debriefing was on an omnicom or something. If so, then theoretically Kon shouldn't have been able to read it. I mean, wouldn't it be written in Interlac? Unless of course Kon has managed to squeeze in some language courses since he's been back to the future...
Since Ferro's been in the 31st century for quite awhile, I'd assume translation programs would have been created for some time now.

If there isn't some sort of univeral translator feature contained in the Omnicom.

Hi, Spellbinder!

TN
 
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Tromium Crystal:
I'm relieved to see even the most subtle change in Garth's appearance. I tell myself (not altogether convincingly) I can deal with this strange communion a while longer if only he looks less like Jan.
Yeah, it does make him a bit more palatable, I suppose. If underlying psychologies were actually examined, I wouldn't mind it so much at all, really. But that's not going to happen in one more probably full issue. Who know what future teams have in store?

quote:
Originally posted by Tromium Crystal:

Garth's difficulty filling "the empty hours" on Legion World just serves to heighten our sense of Jan's utter aloneness during his billion-year sojurn in space.
Hmmmm. I wonder if Garth has thought that, or something similar?

quote:
Originally posted by Tromium Crystal:

To respond to SoM's idea: yes, I think it's quite possible all the Ranzz siblings are effectively immortal under certain circumstances, i.e., their electrical energy is captured in another form before it dissipates. Just one of the many loopholes provided to the next creative team. I hope they find another way of migrating him, however. I hate clones.
Unless they took the clone from *Mekt*, giving him a twin and fully restoring Ayla's twin as well. Making them triplets? I wonder how triplets are regarded on Winath?

That could create some interesting character dynamics, at least. Clone stories in the 31st century don't bother me too much, if they're well thought out. In the 'present', I feel the opposite. Unless I don't. [Smile]

quote:
Originally posted by Tromium Crystal:

He does seem more philosophical and accepting of his fate now, as if something of Jan's innate serenity actually rubbed off on him. If his death and transformation accomplishes anything, it might be to realign his personality with that of the (slightly) more even-tempered pre-boot Garth. Many readers are so turned off about the whole "Jarth" thing, they've overlooked some fine moments of characterization in this issue. The writers and artists were faced the challenge of getting Garth's misembodied persona across with only dialogue and body language. They convinced me.
You made me reread the issue with that paragraph. I see what you mean, but I think some more overt 'listening in' needs to be shown.

Love 'misembodied'... way to coin a word!

quote:
Originally posted by Tromium Crystal:

I suspect there *is* scheming going on here -- off panel. In light of his outburst, it's easy to assume that Garth was defying orders by surrendering himself to the Credo. But between the time he stalks off and his arrival at the Credo base, he might have been convinced to participate in a more sensible plan of action. Perhaps he really isn't alone at all.
That seems so obvious now, but I really didn't think of that initially. My Legion espionage-dar must be down!

quote:
Originally posted by Tromium Crystal:

I'm not sure what you're implying here! Why didn't Umbra attack with her dark field instead of relying on martial arts? I was horrified by the image of my beloved Tasmia almost getting scalped. Lucky for her that Garth is instinctively protective of beautiful women. Hmmmm....
So we share a love for Element Lad and Tasmia...

I was mentally matchmaking Umbra and Superboy, somewhat jokingly.

quote:
Originally posted by Tromium Crystal:

See my next comment. What struck me here is that M'onel didn't react with revulsion toward "Jarth"; he even showed him some warmth. This does nothing to help Jan, of course, but reflects well on Mon, in that he apparently doesn't equate Jan's physical form with something monstrous. In the panel where he clasps Live Wire by the shoulders, we see Saturn Girl and Cosmic Boy looking on...maybe with a tinge of guilt that they were incapable of the same generosity of spirit towards their co-founder.
Yes, it does reflect well upon M'on. If Jan is restored, sooner or later, M'on should be one of the first to accept him. I'd think he'd understand the pressures of time and loneliness, if anyone could.

Nice observation about Cos and Imra. Perceptive.

quote:
Originally posted by Tromium Crystal:

I'm so pleased to see Mon back...with his new (old) costume.
I'd actually like something that combines a bit of the old look, too. I liked the starfield effect on M'on, and I don't really like losing it completely.

quote:
Originally posted by Tromium Crystal:

Both Saturn Girl and Live Wire are under the impression that educating Singularity about Jan will serve some purpose. I honestly doubt that knowing Element Lad's tragic history would sway this "misguided monster" (unless my theory below proves true). Nonetheless, there are two Legionnaires, at least, who've not forgotten that Jan was once a "good man".
I wish there was one Legionnaire, at the least, that cared about 'Jan' implicitly. Unfortunately, I don't think there is one.

quote:
Originally posted by Tromium Crystal:

Imra standing around doing nothing in particular might seem extraneous, but I think it's important she of all people witness Garth finally exerting his personality.
Good point. And I have a feeling she'll have even more reason to be there next issue.

quote:
Originally posted by Tromium Crystal:

Maybe little Vi was reminding Cos of the Subterfuge Squad!
I wish they'd bring back 'espionage squad', personally.

But I think you're right here... and others have agreed with you, too.

I thought perhaps Vi had just noticed something important... something 'small' that others would miss.

quote:
Originally posted by Tromium Crystal:

Yes, he displayed a green energy-effect in Legion Lost. So did Jan. BTW, have you heard my brilliant theory that Singularity is the only begotten son of Element Lad?
So, who's the mother, I wonder? Unless he's the son of asexual reproduction in the form of crystal breaking off from the 'main' body?

quote:
Originally posted by Tromium Crystal:

Batista's terrific work rendering the various Credo species in this issue just makes it that much harder to say goodbye.
I've decided that next issue will be but the end of Batista's *first* run as Legion artist. Hopefully, we won't have to wait long for his triumphant return.

quote:
Originally posted by Tromium Crystal:

I don't know what other people were expecting, but since I was long ago disabused of the notion that DnA would resolve the Garth-in-Jan thing during their run, I was free to enjoy this issue on other levels. As we bid farewell to this creative team the best I can possibly hope for is a few redemptive words in memory of the real Jan Arrah before they close the book. But even if DnA's last take on "Legion Lost" doesn't answer all our questions about Element Lad's ultimate fate, there's always the possibility that Waid and company will reingnite that "smidgeon of hope" in the future. Maybe we should start a campaign now.
Maybe we should.

I was really disappointed to read in one interview or another that DNA didn't even have an end in mind for GIJ when they added him to the Legion 'world'. Tsk-tsk.

Thanks very much for the comments and ideas, TromCrys.

TN

Considering your name, TC, are you also a fan, as I am, of Crystal, Marvel's homonymous elemental?
 
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Awkward Pause Boy:

If you say so. I may have developed a block regarding his personality because, to me, he’s mostly seemed like a marionette—devoid of self-awareness and prone to whatever random actions fulfill the plot that was written.
I guess I've seen more in Garth's portryal throughout the reboot. He was the runaway who enjoyed adventure until his secret came out and he had to go look for Mekt again. (I always thought he'd never have thought of Mekt again if Chu hadn't forced his hand!) Then, he was the whiny former Workforcer... then he had a brief moment of 'clarity' when Ayla was in the 20th century (I always thought there was a direct connection there). His discontent continued through the end of LEGIONNAIRES, with a few noticeable exceptions. When DNA took over, he began to grow, then relapsed when lost team was, well, LOST. Finally, he seemed mature and at peace with himself working on the hydroponics, thinking he had a secure relationship with distant Imra, sacrificing himself. I thought it was a nice arc, anyway.

quote:
Originally posted by Awkward Pause Boy:

I have to believe that something else was going on from the beginning. To have all of the legionnaires fly in, ask for the hostages, and then leave empty-handed was just bizarre. Wasn’t Winema consulted? Wouldn’t the entire UP have taken issue with its envoy being taken hostage? Wouldn’t the Legion have needed to address Credo’s attack on Amshana as well? Wouldn’t Monel have been able to tell them that the “show-of-force” ploy would not have worked, and that it wouldn’t be enough if it did? So, anyway, I had to assume there was something else in the works—which just made the scene with Jazmin and Jarth arguing a bit silly. Anyone there should have been able to speak up and say that A: Singularity was lying and B: We’ve got a plan in the works anyway.
Ah, politics. I wonder if DNA had their other three issues if they'd have included the political ramifications aroused by this situation. After all, the Kwai and the second galaxys have once again provided intersystem transportation.

Without that, the UP crashes.

I hope that the infrastructure of UP space travel is soon separated from the Legion. It's a bit much.

quote:
Originally posted by Awkward Pause Boy:

It would be nice to see more from her about the whole mess. Instead we got one line while she was fighting her path-kin—and a faintly-remembered line about the whole progenitor business way back at the end of Lost/beginning of Legion.
Am I crazy for thinking the hero from the place where a crisis occurs should be 'at point'?

quote:
Originally posted by Awkward Pause Boy:

I didn’t get much from Brainy’s poses, specifically. Maybe I was just paying attention to other folks’ poses. I do, though, prefer the yellow force fields.
I just wish his facial do-hickeys would disappear, unless he's using the force-fields.

quote:
Originally posted by Awkward Pause Boy:

And you’d think Singularity would have at least acknowledged her battling him to a near standstill.
Good point... maybe he didn't recognize her. Those blue people all look the same...

quote:
Originally posted by Awkward Pause Boy:

I’m much more comfortable with his role this issue, probably just because he wasn’t in the spotlight.
Superboy does work better as 'one of the cast', rather than major star.

quote:
Originally posted by Awkward Pause Boy:

Now, now. We all know it’s the females who get to wear thongs and bikinis. Males have to cover everything with as much bulky material as possible. Voila—his new uniform.
Even in 1,000 years. Maybe the Legion can pay a visit to 'Reversed Gender Role Expectations Planet' one of these days.

Who'd be more uncomfortable... the guys or the girls?

quote:
Originally posted by Awkward Pause Boy:

Heavens no. And to think most of them did not even live through it. They sure must have gotten a good dose of the Legion Lost team’s perspective from somewhere.
This bothers me... one of the beauties of a Legion-sized cast is that various members can have differing views about 'controversial' (or noncontroversial) topics, such as the way they view Jan.

quote:
Originally posted by Awkward Pause Boy:

Yes. I really wouldn’t mind a leadership shake-up. Or maybe even a disagreement.
I'm ready for a new leader, too. But I don't want to see a disagreement. Jazmin 'Quantumtime Queen' Cullen, who doesn't know how her powers work, might turn a favorite hero into protozoa.

quote:
Originally posted by Awkward Pause Boy:

I was too. I have a special appreciation for Jan and Imra’s preboot relationship. I always thought there wasn’t enough shown of it. So, her sticking up for him harkens back to those days for me.
Sigh. I'm so with you. My favorites were the SW6 Imra and Jan. When she comforted him after he accidentally killed the Dominators. And later when he was a source of solace to her in the early LEGIONNAIRES comic. Big sis/little bro...

It was a much more understated mentor/apprentice kind of relationship in the Levitz years. I do remember, fondly, the scene when she told Jan that she was proud of him...

quote:
Originally posted by Awkward Pause Boy:

She sure suddenly seems the smooth and in-control leader. I guess facing Darkseid can lead one to be a bit more confident. I just kept wondering, “Aren’t these teenagers?”
That's a familiar feeling for any Legion reader, I think.

quote:
Originally posted by Awkward Pause Boy:

Is it? Perhaps we’ll finally find out in another year or so.
Tee-hee... not feeling a little frustrated by the lightning-like speed with which this subplot has progressed, are you?

quote:
Originally posted by Awkward Pause Boy:

Lot’s of possible story with this fellow. I wouldn’t have pictured him leading a cult when he was originally introduced, but I suppose he regarded his planet as his followers previously.
Yeah, he seemed a much less politically astute (in a bludgeoning kind of way) kind of guy, didn't he? He's progressed sort of like the way you described Garth earlier... a marionette..."prone to whatever random actions fulfill the plot that was written". Come to think of it, that's a pretty good description of Jan as the Progenitor, too. Unless some huge revelations are going to be aired next issue.

quote:
Originally posted by Awkward Pause Boy:

How refreshing it will be if there really is a lot of story and action in a single issue. It’s already hard to believe that this arc wasn’t extended to the obligatory 4 or 5 issues.
I know it. I hope they can pull it off, but it's a tall order.

quote:
Originally posted by Awkward Pause Boy:

And to think of all that Gates would have had to say about the whole cult mentality...and all of the standing that Zoe could have done.
LOL! Poor Zoe... I can imagine Umbra saying that line! Or maybe Gates... or Lyle!

Maybe Gates'll get in a zinger or two, next issue. I doubt it, since he's hardly been a priority for DNA thoughout their run... I have a feeling it's gonna be all Garth, Imra, Brainy, Cos and Jaz next issue.

quote:
Originally posted by Awkward Pause Boy:

Remember when Jan left his teammates behind so he could confront Roxxas alone and sacrificed his life to eliminate the threat Roxxas posed to other worlds...sigh...
This could describe both Jan's origin issue and issue #50 (I think) of the 5YL series, when the souls of Trom brought Jan back to the living.

Good memories, both. Though mention of Jan's origin always brings to my mind a peculiar little theory I have about it and the way it fits into a certain ADVENTURE era pattern.

Thank you for your evocative reply, APB!

TN
 
Posted by jimgallagher on :
 
2 thoughts:

On M'Onel's calling Superboy "old friend":

After 1,000 years in the whatever zone, it makes sense to me that M'On would (a) become fairly philosophical and act somewhat big brotherly towards anyone he knew before his imprisonment and (b) would also have become very lonely and want to reach out for any relationship he could nurture, especially with someone on a similar power level with him and from the same time period as him.


Thought #2:

Lots of people hate the Garth in Jan plot device. I wonder how it compares to the scads of readers who hated the Proty in Garth plot twist of the preboot. Which would y'all rather have? Garth in Jan or Proty in Garth? Me? I'd take Proty in Garth in a second.
 
Posted by Awkward Pause Boy on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Mystery Lad:
I guess I've seen more in Garth's portrayal throughout the reboot...
I can see all of this as some form of development, but really I've just never been able to get past his obsession with Imra. I just don't know why he does it. I can recall points where Imra realizes her feelings for Garth, but all I can recall from Garth is a lusty shuttle ride followed by years of fixation, jealousy, angst... And I'm not trying to be unromantic or anything. I can deal with romance, but in this instance I just don't see anything there to work with.

quote:
Originally posted by Mystery Lad:
I hope that the infrastructure of UP space travel is soon separated from the Legion. It's a bit much.
I'll second that. It's certainly interesting to note, for practicality's sake, but has become quite a bit much.

quote:
Originally posted by Mystery Lad:
Am I crazy for thinking the hero from the place where a crisis occurs should be 'at point'?
I suppose that, if I wanted to defend her current level of participation, I'd say that it's harder to be point person for an entire galaxy than for a particular planet. Even so, I'd expect a little more involvement. Maybe some is coming in the next issue.

quote:
Originally posted by Mystery Lad:
This bothers me... one of the beauties of a Legion-sized cast is that various members can have differing views about 'controversial' (or noncontroversial) topics, such as the way they view Jan.
It is pretty bothersome isn't it. Yet, excepting minor variations, everyone's fallen in line about what to think of the whole story.

quote:
Originally posted by Mystery Lad:
Big sis/little bro...
Precisely.

quote:
Originally posted by Mystery Lad:
Tee-hee... not feeling a little frustrated by the lightning-like speed with which this subplot has progressed, are you?
That's what I get for wanting resolution.

quote:
Originally posted by Mystery Lad:
Though mention of Jan's origin always brings to my mind a peculiar little theory I have about it and the way it fits into a certain ADVENTURE era pattern.
What's this? A teaser? Out with it! (Or am I just missing something?)
 
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
 
Interestingly, the Garth-survival story harkens back to something we originally learned back when Mekt made his first reboot appearance, namely that the Ranzz's now "bleed" lightning, indicating that they aren't really human anymore at all.
 
Posted by Awkward Pause Boy on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by jimgallagher:
Which would y'all rather have? Garth in Jan or Proty in Garth?
I'd probably take Proty in Garth too, but then I'd feel kinda guilty for all those Lightning Lad fans.
 
Posted by Sanity or Madness? on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester:
Interestingly, the Garth-survival story harkens back to something we originally learned back when Mekt made his first reboot appearance, namely that the Ranzz's now "bleed" lightning, indicating that they aren't really human anymore at all.
Remember tho that, at the end of that story, Ayla & Garth completely discharged Mekt - and he survived (bleeding blood not electricity no less). The lightning wasn't animating them then, even if it's animating Jarth now.
 
Posted by Tromium Crystal on :
 
It doesn't prove anything, but there was a comment Garth made said to Mekt when they were on Korbal in the Lightning Lord arc, early post-boot. Something to the effect: "I thought we all died that day. Maybe we did." Later, Garth was only temporarily dazed by the loss of his arm and Ayla shrugged a gunshot wound thanks to the lightning-cauterization affect. Then Ayla, who had lost her electrical powers in Genesis, was both killed (again?) and resurrected by lightning in #101. We've yet to see Mekt die/resurrect like his younger siblings, but I think they've established enough evidence to support the Ranzz survival/immortality theory, though where they'll take it next is anyone's guess.

APB, when you speak of Jan's origins and "a certain Adventure era pattern", are you referring to his tendancy to turn stuff into gas all the time? Or am I way off base?

Mystery Lad, I just recently learned about Crystal (the Marvel character). Thanks for the heads-up.
 
Posted by Awkward Pause Boy on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Tromium Crystal:
APB, when you speak of Jan's origins and "a certain Adventure era pattern", are you referring to his tendancy to turn stuff into gas all the time? Or am I way off base?
It's not my "Adventure era pattern," it's Mystery Lad's. He's got everyone in a tizzy about it.
 
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by jimgallagher:
2 thoughts:

On M'Onel's calling Superboy "old friend":

After 1,000 years in the whatever zone, it makes sense to me that M'On would (a) become fairly philosophical and act somewhat big brotherly towards anyone he knew before his imprisonment and (b) would also have become very lonely and want to reach out for any relationship he could nurture, especially with someone on a similar power level with him and from the same time period as him.
I really wish we'd get some sort of spotlight about Lar's memories from his time in the whatever zone (I can never remember what it is this month, either!). I agree it'd be natural for him to feel brotherly towards someone he knew before he was 'zoned'. I do think it likely that Lar watched Superboy from the zone from time to time, as well.

I don't know if power levels would have anything to do with it, though. Not for Lar Gand, anyway.

quote:
Originally posted by jimgallagher:

Thought #2:

Lots of people hate the Garth in Jan plot device. I wonder how it compares to the scads of readers who hated the Proty in Garth plot twist of the preboot. Which would y'all rather have? Garth in Jan or Proty in Garth? Me? I'd take Proty in Garth in a second.
It all depends on the outcome. If I had to choose a longrunning or permanent scenario, I'd choose Proty in Garth, too.

If there's a means to an end, here... the opposite.

Thanks for the reply, jim.

TN

[ May 06, 2004, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: Mystery Lad ]
 
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Awkward Pause Boy:
I can see all of this as some form of development, but really I've just never been able to get past his obsession with Imra. I just don't know why he does it. I can recall points where Imra realizes her feelings for Garth, but all I can recall from Garth is a lusty shuttle ride followed by years of fixation, jealousy, angst... And I'm not trying to be unromantic or anything. I can deal with romance, but in this instance I just don't see anything there to work with.
Preboot, almost all the Legion romances were 'fait accompli'. Love at first sight, followed by immediate permabond pairing. I think that the beginning of the reboot took that into account... they relied heavily on the Lighnting Lad/Saturn Girl coupledom as something inherent to the series. Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. They showed us a bit more realistic take on love at first sight with Ultra Boy and Apparition... at least for awhile.

You're right, we did see Imra change from somewhat diffident to 'in love' back to unsure.

quote:
Originally posted by Awkward Pause Boy:

I suppose that, if I wanted to defend her current level of participation, I'd say that it's harder to be point person for an entire galaxy than for a particular planet. Even so, I'd expect a little more involvement. Maybe some is coming in the next issue.
Very good point... however the Kwai are a big presence in the 'new' second galaxy. But you're right, essentially.

quote:
Originally posted by Awkward Pause Boy:

It is pretty bothersome isn't it. Yet, excepting minor variations, everyone's fallen in line about what to think of the whole story.
Yeah... a little variation in opinion, at the least, would be very welcome.

quote:
Originally posted by Mystery Lad:
Though mention of Jan's origin always brings to my mind a peculiar little theory I have about it and the way it fits into a certain ADVENTURE era pattern.
What's this? A teaser? Out with it! (Or am I just missing something?) [/QB][/QUOTE]

Oh, Lordy... I hope this doesn't disappoint. It certainly doesn't have to do with anything concerning 'current' events in the book.

Well, OK... here's the pattern (from Adventure era stories)...

Ultra Boy... suspected by the Legion.
Duplicate Boy... suspected by the Legion.
Lone Wolf... suspected by the Legion.
Element Lad... suspected by the Legion.

Phantom Girl... follows U.B., then aids him, despite her doubts.
Shrinking Violet... follows D.B., then aids him, despite her doubts.
Light Lass... follows L.W., then aids him, despite her doubts.
Invisible Kid... follows E.L., then aids him, despite his doubts.

UB/PG, SV/DB, LL/LW all become longstanding Legion romantic couples. I don't think the writers of Element Lad's origin intended to show Lyle falling for Jan at all, but I think modern readers can extrapolate the possibility of a relationship from the other stories and resulting relationships. It's not overt, at all. But a possibility.

I *do* think that Jan and Lyle should've been shown to become friends over the course of their Legion careers, more than they were... Jan would've been as grateful to Lyle as he was to Imra, IMO.

As someone who thought Jan might be a gay hero before I ever heard of fan-fic... before I even met another Legion fan of any kind, I extrapolate more than friendship. In the Legion HQ of my own imagination, anyway:).

TN
 
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester:
Interestingly, the Garth-survival story harkens back to something we originally learned back when Mekt made his first reboot appearance, namely that the Ranzz's now "bleed" lightning, indicating that they aren't really human anymore at all.
Now *that* needs some follow-up. I wonder if that's where DNA got the idea for this way of his 'surviving' death.

I wonder about the lightning beasts... did *they* kill some other creatures(s) that also were 'living lightning'? What if the lightning itself is a form of life, passing from host entity to host entity?

Thanks for the positive provocation, EDE!
TN
 
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Tromium Crystal:

Mystery Lad, I just recently learned about Crystal (the Marvel character). Thanks for the heads-up.
She's one of my favorites, despite having not been used for years, now.

Her best appearances have been in various replacement stints for Sue Richards in the FANTASTIC FOUR. She was also an AVENGER for awhile. And, as an INHUMAN (but one with closer ties to the 'human' world that her 'cousins'), she often (but not nearly always) appears whenever that group is featured.

TN
 
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Awkward Pause Boy:
It's not my "Adventure era pattern," it's Mystery Lad's. He's got everyone in a tizzy about it.
I doubt it was 'tizworthy'. Sorry for the tease and the delay. (Does 'tizzy' come from 'tease'-- as in 'He teased me so much, I'm in a tizzy?)

ELad *did* a lot of gas transformations, though, Tromium Crystal. I always wanted to see him team up with Gas Girl of Lallor...

TN
 
Posted by Awkward Pause Boy on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Mystery Lad:
[QUOTE]Oh, Lordy... I hope this doesn't disappoint...
It doesn't. [Smile] I think it's fabulous to extrapolate in such a manner. It helps mull the endless possibilities.
 
Posted by Sanity or Madness? on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Tromium Crystal:
quote:
Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?:
And obvious question - the way it was described here, doesn't this basically make Garth (and quite possibly Ayla and Mekt by extension) immortal? Just get them hosts that can take an all-the-power-they've-got blast (clones even? If they have a sample of Garth's DNA - or even get a sample from Ayla and "edit" it slightly to make the clone male - would the clone body be able to take him?) and hey presto...
To respond to SoM's idea: yes, I think it's quite possible all the Ranzz siblings are effectively immortal under certain circumstances, i.e., their electrical energy is captured in another form before it dissipates. Just one of the many loopholes provided to the next creative team. I hope they find another way of migrating him, however. I hate clones.
I've done some looking over, and I'm now not sure a clone could take a blast of sufficient magnitude. Remember Dr Gym'll trying to stop the attempt to resurrecect Ayla cause he thought it would fry Garth? And of course his actual incineration at the end of LL12.

[This brings up another point - even ignoring the transmutation, does this effectively give him a power-up, given that the crystal's presumably a more durable body? Or do we have a Wildfire effect where he has to hold back to keep himself together?]
 
Posted by Sanity or Madness? on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Mystery Lad:
quote:
Originally posted by jimgallagher:
2 thoughts:

On M'Onel's calling Superboy "old friend":

After 1,000 years in the whatever zone, it makes sense to me that M'On would (a) become fairly philosophical and act somewhat big brotherly towards anyone he knew before his imprisonment and (b) would also have become very lonely and want to reach out for any relationship he could nurture, especially with someone on a similar power level with him and from the same time period as him.
I really wish we'd get some sort of spotlight about Lar's memories from his time in the whatever zone (I can never remember what it is this month, either!). I agree it'd be natural for him to feel brotherly towards someone he knew before he was 'zoned'. I do think it likely that Lar watched Superboy from the zone from time to time, as well.
Note how he said that he *eventually* learned to tune in in Lgs 37 tho. And can you really call someone you spied upon for years a "friend," when they did nothing to get you out of the Zone in their natural lifespan?

quote:
Originally posted by Mystery Lad:
quote:
Originally posted by Awkward Pause Boy:
I suppose that, if I wanted to defend her current level of participation, I'd say that it's harder to be point person for an entire galaxy than for a particular planet. Even so, I'd expect a little more involvement. Maybe some is coming in the next issue.
Very good point... however the Kwai are a big presence in the 'new' second galaxy. But you're right, essentially.
True - the only reason for a "native" to have more than their usual involvment in the planning/execution of a mission is for their local knowledge. They were "negotiating" with Singularity here, and 'Kari's been completely out of touch with her people since Legion Lost 3, and the Credo didn't exist until after the Fall of the Progenator
 
Posted by Tromium Crystal on :
 
Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?:
I've done some looking over, and I'm now not sure a clone could take a blast of sufficient magnitude. Remember Dr Gym'll trying to stop the attempt to resurrecect Ayla cause he thought it would fry Garth? And of course his actual incineration at the end of LL12.

[This brings up another point - even ignoring the transmutation, does this effectively give him a power-up, given that the crystal's presumably a more durable body? Or do we have a Wildfire effect where he has to hold back to keep himself together?]

Your idea of cloning a new human body using Ayla's genetic matrix *does* have technical merit. I assume it would be able to withstand at least as massive a lightning blast as Ayla's body did in LSH #101. It doesn't sit right with me only because I tend to think of clone bodies as degenerate copies. Besides, I'm not so sure he would be willing to move to a clone body, particularly now that he's adopted the notion the whole thing was "ordained".

Tromium has weaknesses as well as strengths. It protects against space/time stress and does not degrade, giving its owner extended life if not immortality (Jan's billion years in space). But it's also been shown to be vulnerable to weapon fire (LL:#1) not to mention energy blasts. It's certainly a better conductor of electricity than flesh, however, especially in crystalline form, so his electrical powers might in fact be magnified assuming he doesn't blow himself up in the process. It's also possible the transmutation powers are enhanced or otherwise altered by the lightning, but I kinda doubt it.

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Originally posted by Awkward Pause Boy:
I can see all of this as some form of development, but really I've just never been able to get past his obsession with Imra. I just don't know why he does it. I can recall points where Imra realizes her feelings for Garth, but all I can recall from Garth is a lusty shuttle ride followed by years of fixation, jealousy, angst... And I'm not trying to be unromantic or anything. I can deal with romance, but in this instance I just don't see anything there to work with.

I suppose he obsesses because as soon as he gets close to Imra, she pushes him away. Talk about patterns. All this back-and-forth is just a soap-opera technique to forestall the inevitable, imo, but you're not the first reader to question the relationship because of it. Over the years, they've spent a lot more time squabbling than romancing except for the periods of detente they enjoyed right after the 20th century arc and just before Legion Lost. The writers must have realized there was some fan uncertainty about this matter because they've taken particular pains since Dream Crime to remind us that, for all their problems in LL, they were in fact still engaged when he died.
 
Posted by Korbal on :
 
Some random thoughts--

Garth must have had at least the help of a Kwai to even reach the Credo at the end--hinting that he may not be acting alone.

Why is Winema Wazzo always wearing glasses ever since she became President?

Would not be too surprised if the original Progenitor, the Lord of Time, makes some sort of appearance.

Wasn't the whole Garth/Proty plot only valid during the thankfully brief "Glorith Reality" with the Kid Quantum/Soul of Antares mess?

Where does Umbra store her transuit nowadays?
 
Posted by Time Trapper on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Korbal:
Would not be too surprised if the original Progenitor, the Lord of Time, makes some sort of appearance

Hey, there's only ONE Master Of Time ! [TimeTrapper]

Where does Umbra store her transuit nowadays?
Just look closer at her "cerimonial clothing"; there is enough space somewhere. The real question is, where does Sensor store her transuit ?
 
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
 
The same place she keeps her nipples...
 
Posted by Sanity or Madness? on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Time Trapper:
quote:
Originally posted by Korbal:
Would not be too surprised if the original Progenitor, the Lord of Time, makes some sort of appearance
Just look closer at her "cerimonial clothing"; there is enough space somewhere.
I'd guess there's a pouch in her cape for it. Only possible place really.

quote:
Originally posted by Time Trapper:
The real question is, where does Sensor store her transuit ?
She wears a Big Legion Belt™ since she got hips. And, given how they grow with the user (see Vi, Gim), they'd fit.
 


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