With the long running rumor of a Waid run on Legion, could he be referring to a relaunch with Kitson in this new interview? Silver Bullet Comics interview
Here's my take on it -
I'm going to go out on a limb here. With Waid putting more pre-crisis lose back in to Superman:Birthright, and now this talk of a Waid/Kitson re-launch, I'll bet bigtime that the pre-reboot Legion will be back. Waid was the one who got rid of them after Zero Hour because of the problem the current rules gave them (no Superboy inspiration), and now Waid will bring them back.
He's a LONG TIME Legion fan, having partisipated in the LEGION apa long ago before becoming professional. He loves the Legion, and I think that with Levitz behind the idea, its as good as done.
Not to mention the return of another core pre-reboot Legion chara, Supergirl.
All the pieces fall into place....
Posted by Annoying Lad on :
Sorry if old but here's a Gail Simone quote from her interview on her upcoming run...
ST: Mark Waid is taking over Legion. How closely will your story arcs intersect?
GS: Very closely, though it might not seem so at first.
Posted by reservations on :
I hope it doesn't reboot. I think it will definitely change. I love Waid, and I miss the days when entire issues were dedicated to characterisation
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
I've got mixed feelings on another reboot to the past. If you look around this place, you can see I'm a bigger fan of the past (I haven't even finished all the post-boot team in smiley form yet, for instance), but throwing out continuity left and right is never a good idea. A compromise should be met. Somehow.
Thanks for the link AL, I hope Mark is talking about the Legion.
Posted by capt._dallas on :
quote:Originally posted by Annoying Lad: With the long running rumor of a Waid run on Legion, could he be referring to a relaunch with Kitson in this new interview? ...I'll bet bigtime that the pre-reboot Legion will be back. Waid was the one who got rid of them after Zero Hour because of the problem the current rules gave them (no Superboy inspiration), and now Waid will bring them back.
I would love to see a pre-reboot Legion again, but I would be SHOCKED if DC made that move. When you think about it, returning to pre-reboot is a very desperate move, a move that would alienate anyone who is enjoying the current Legion and NOT necessarily bring back all the fans of pre-reboot Legion (the reboot happened 10 years ago now). Would a return to a pre-reboot Legion bring in NEW readers not familiar with the LSH, or further drive them away from a title that they would rightly conclude just can't decide what it wants to be?
Posted by Awkward Pause Boy on :
Maybe all it means is that they will split off part of the team for a year or so and then kill a couple of them. Wouldn't that be grand!?
Posted by Comic Addict Lad on :
it's too late for another reboot now. They can change direction and feel without rebooting en masse.
To be honest, rebooting is an indication of poor creativity and writing skills. Anyone can start from a blank slate and re-tread old stories. its forging ahead with new ones that counts!!
Posted by Sanity or Madness? on :
If they say "relaunch," they mean "new #1". They wouldn't be stupid enough to reboot again (or better still, DEboot. To what anyway? The 5YL stuff is as devisive as the reboot, and if you go back to pre-gap, that's FIFTEEN YEARS AGO! They are NOT going to pick up stuff as-it-was 10 or 15 years back - forget it. The closest you'd get is stuff like forcing Superboy on us to make the reboot Legion resemble the preboot more. And remember, Waid himself was the guy who hit The Button anyway.)
Posted by Awkward Pause Boy on :
If they added Superboy to the title, would it be abbreviated SOL?
Posted by Awkward Pause Boy on :
No, STL?
Posted by Cubicle Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?: [QB]If they say "relaunch," they mean "new #1". They wouldn't be stupid enough to reboot again (or better still, DEboot. To what anyway? The 5YL stuff is as devisive as the reboot, and if you go back to pre-gap, that's FIFTEEN YEARS AGO! They are NOT going to pick up stuff as-it-was 10 or 15 years back - forget it. [QB]
Wouldn't they? DC is allowing Byrne to restart the Doom Partol "as it was" by WAY more than 15 years. And this despite any continuity issues that might araise from starting over from scratch inside the current DC timeline.
I should think that if Waid wanted to use his hypertime concept to just start over from the beginning again, DC just might let him....
Posted by Tromium Crystal on :
Who needs a reboot? Just relaunch the current characters in a new Vertigo title: Superboy and the Legion of Lecherous Super-Heroes -- SLLSH -- pronounced "slash". Lots of drinking, cursing and inter-species consorting, but with Silver Age overtones. Hell, I'd buy three copies every month.
Seriously, Gail Simone has mentioned that her arc picks up some threads left by DnA, and that Waid's arc will intersect with hers. Doesn't sound like a reboot to me.
Posted by Sanity or Madness? on :
quote:Originally posted by Cubicle Kid:
quote:Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?: If they say "relaunch," they mean "new #1". They wouldn't be stupid enough to reboot again (or better still, DEboot. To what anyway? The 5YL stuff is as devisive as the reboot, and if you go back to pre-gap, that's FIFTEEN YEARS AGO! They are NOT going to pick up stuff as-it-was 10 or 15 years back - forget it.
Wouldn't they? DC is allowing Byrne to restart the Doom Partol "as it was" by WAY more than 15 years. And this despite any continuity issues that might araise from starting over from scratch inside the current DC timeline.
I should think that if Waid wanted to use his hypertime concept to just start over from the beginning again, DC just might let him....
Byrne's rebooting the Doom Patrol in the way the Legion was rebooted in 1994. From Day One - not picking up the plot threads as they were the issue before the team blew themselves up.
You're right in the sense that I forgot about that, tho. But Waid set up this Legion HIMSELF. I doubt he'd press The Button again (and remember - Gail said his issues would tie into hers, albeit in a not-immediately-obvious way. Hard to do if they've been whited-out.)
[ April 08, 2004, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: Sanity or Madness? ]
Posted by Cubicle Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?: You're right in the sense that I forgot about that, tho. But Waid set up this Legion HIMSELF. I doubt he'd press The Button again
True. But I think, IIRC from past threads, that we are in general agreement that Waid's reboot generally went to hell after he left the books, around the time of the Emerald VI storyline and the resultant T20/T30 split.
Prefect resolution, Employ the Anywhere Machine to reset the Legion to when Waid before that time. Effectively, Waid picks up on the Legion precisely where he left off.
Posted by Tromium Crystal on :
quote:Originally posted by Cubicle Kid: Prefect resolution, Employ the Anywhere Machine to reset the Legion to when Waid before that time. Effectively, Waid picks up on the Legion precisely where he left off.
Why? So the characters are 14-15 years old again? Nobody wants that.
Besides, that would wipe out Legion Lost, and Waid is on record stating he liked that story very much. I doubt he'd choose to white it out.
Posted by Varalent on :
All that really matters is that we get some GOOD story telling back. I would love to pick up an issue and actually have something worthwhile to read. This isn't meant to be a picture book where we can just flip pages and exclaim "Oooooohh" "Aaaaaaaaah" "Look at the pretty pictures!"
Please, please, please tell us some "Tales of the Legion of Super Heroes!"
Posted by Greybird on :
When and if they go back to resume the story where the REAL Legion was last seen, standing on an asteroid among the ruins of Zerox ... I'll let out three cheers.
Until then, I'll simply take a look at what comes out under that name, and expect to have an occasional pleasant surprise, but little more than that.
The likes of Steve Lightle's art excepted, o'course -- I know how stellar that will be. And I do have considerable hope for what Gail Simone will create with this setting and cast.
Posted by Arachne on :
A reboot would never work. Think about it: no one would agree on just what time to reboot to and even if they did the odds are slim that the story would continue in the direction every person agrees is the right one. And after so many years, fans will have pretty strong ideas about what that direction is.
While I'm still not sure Zero hour was a good or necessary, once that decision was made, going right back to the begining was the logical course, even if it couldn't possibly satisfy everyone. There's really no point in doing it again, they'd just run into the same problems.
Posted by Ultra Boy on :
Hey I would take the re-boot between vol. 3 & the % Year Gap!
Posted by Comet King on :
Yikes! I hope this rumour isn't true! Another reboot would kill the Legion dead - how many of us want to spend a couple more years waiting for them to get round to recruiting our favourite characters?
And it would mean throwing the DnA stuff out. I know their 5 parters have been a bit on the picture-heavy, story-light side but they've worked wonders in my opinion. The thresholds, pathfinders, titanet, the cadets, even legionworld - they've given the Legion loads of much needed iconography and it would be a big shame to lose it.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
If it were up to me, I'd blend the various incarnations of the Legion we've seen over the years into a single timeline. That way, we could get most of the preboot history back, but keep the new characters and some of the other nice elements/stories since the reboot.
Posted by MLLASH on :
A blended timeline would be the best way to go, as it would allow for stuff like bringing in Element Lad and Projectra from say, circa S/LSH 212 and keeping the new guys (Gates, Zoe) around.
But it would be a CHORE figuring out what stories had and hadn't actually taken place.
I'm thinking the relaunch is going to be either a new # 1 (I hope not) or a cover copy and hype that reads: BOLD NEW DIRECTION! SUPERSTARS WAID & KITSON DO THINGS TO THE LEGION YOU ONLY EVER IMAGINED BEFORE or some such.
Posted by Sanity or Madness? on :
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: If it were up to me, I'd blend the various incarnations of the Legion we've seen over the years into a single timeline. That way, we could get most of the preboot history back, but keep the new characters and some of the other nice elements/stories since the reboot.
All that would accomplish would be to make sure even the die-hard fans had no idea what the characters' history was. Casual fans would take one look and say "bye."
Posted by capt._dallas on :
quote:Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?: All that would accomplish would be to make sure even the die-hard fans had no idea what the characters' history was. Casual fans would take one look and say "bye."
I agree completely.
Folks, although it's nice to think that DC would entertain re-booting the Legion to before the 1994 re-boot, or before the "Five Year Gap," or before [insert the issue where you think LSH went down the toilet].
And it would be interesting to have a Legion title that somehow accommodates all incarnations of LSH. (Think of a on-going Legion "Elseworlds"-like title that would give writers/artists the freedom to tell any Legion story they wanted from ANY version of the LSH.)
Reagrdless, NONE of this is ever going to happen.
Stephen Wacker and the DC execs want to expand the Legion readership. How does the wiping away of Legion of the Damned, Legion Lost, Ra's Al Ghul, and Foundations, (among other stories) going to expand readership? How is making Legion continuity EXTREMELY confusing going to expand readership? It's not.
We all need to accept that the 1994 re-boot is here to say, and the only possible way to bring the Legion back to the point where you want it returned is to win the lottery (and I'm talking about a lottery in excess of $100 million), and present ALL of that money to DC and say, "I'd like to buy the LSH from you for $100 million. Deal?"
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
quote:Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?: All that would accomplish would be to make sure even the die-hard fans had no idea what the characters' history was. Casual fans would take one look and say "bye."
Not necessarily. Not if it's done well (he says, with incredible optimism!).
Here's a scenario: Start the series with the Legion standing on Xerox at the end of the Magic Wars, only Laurel's there, and so's Jenni, Gates, Zoe, whoever else. Begin to gradually tell the events of the "5-year gap", only this time, things turn out differently.
Meanwhile, use a "Secrets of the Legion" style mini-series to go back and fill-in the general timeline of events for this continuity. Have the writers and editor actually work to make sure they have a coherent picture of the "new" Legion's history, and then let the readers know about it. Did Vi have an "Emerald Vi" phase? How did the events of "Legion Lost" transpire (suggestion: Make Chemical King the villain, and the whole "died preventing World War VII" a story to cover it up)?
Anyway, I don't think in principle it would be any less confusing than the histories of JSA or JLA, with all of the retcons they've had.
Posted by capt._dallas on :
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: Here's a scenario: Start the series with the Legion standing on Xerox at the end of the Magic Wars, only Laurel's there, and so's Jenni, Gates, Zoe, whoever else. Begin to gradually tell the events of the "5-year gap", only this time, things turn out differently.
This is a very creative and well-thought out idea, Eryk. Now seriously... imagine having a meeting with Stephen Wacker, Paul Levitz, Jeannette Kahn, etc. and you present them this idea. Explain to THEM how your idea will NOT drive away (1) existing fans of "The Legion" (2) new fans that aren't versed in Legion lore and don't want to spend the money or time reading a "Secrets of the Legion" series to be convinced it's a concept they want to keep reading. How does your idea attract new readers?
quote:Anyway, I don't think in principle it would be any less confusing than the histories of JSA or JLA, with all of the retcons they've had.
True, but JLA and JSA star DC's "BIG GUNS": Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern. Does continuity have to make sense with those titles?
Posted by The Big Bad on :
Nay to a reboot, (or a return to the preboot timeline), unless it includes the entire DCU. I have enough problems accepting Superman, the Teen Titans, and the Doom Patrol; rebooting the legion now would be the final nail in the coffin. Besides, Grant Morrison has proved that it's possible to completely revitalize a concept without rebooting it, so it's really unecessary.
Speaking of Morrison, I'd be estactic if he could take on the title. I feel that he'd bring back the sense of wonder that a comic book set in the future would bring. Bring in Akira's Katsushiro Otomo on as artist (which sadly, will never ever happen) and I'd be a very happy camper.
Posted by Sanity or Madness? on :
BB - you had me until "Speaking of Morrison, I'd be estactic if he could take on the title."
After NXM, keep him the HELL away from any comic I may have even the slightest thought of reading at some point in the most distant of futures.
Posted by The Big Bad on :
Fine then, your entitled to your opinion. But really, I think Grant Morrison is one of the few writers to really, really understand the silver age and who knows to really translate it to a modern audience. He's the one writer I trust to bring the epicness back to the thirtieth century (who, IMO, is actually a step backwards from the twentieth century, technologically). Plus, he's one of the few writers who fully plans his stories out, instead of making them up as they go along.
[ April 11, 2004, 07:46 PM: Message edited by: The Big Bad ]
Posted by Omni Craig on :
Morrison usually runs hot or cold for me, with not a lot of in-between.
Hated his take on X-Men, but Doom Patrol and Animal Man were brilliant!! Invisibles went both ways. I thought the third issue of the first series was pure gold, but by issue 8 I was thinking "Why am I still reading this book? Ugh!!"
I guess his JLA was in-between...
Posted by Ultra Boy on :
Eryk,
I like your idea in concept... with some work it might work. Now how to bring people to read a "Legion Secrets"? It may be a pipe dream, but 1 name..
ALEX ROSS
He has expressed interest in painting the Legion at some point and what a perfect series for that to happen on. Alot of people would buy it in whatever format and hopefully many would stick on after the fact.
Think about it. Any other sure buy artists? (uuhheemmm, Jim Lee)
LLL!
Posted by MLLASH on :
Anything Michael Turner draws is a gold mine.
Posted by braalian on :
So its more or less a sure thing that Waid will be the next regular legion writer? Cool! I'm very excited about this! Waid's current Fantastic Four run has been absolutely awesome. The Legion could hardly find a better writer.
Plus my favorite Legion tale ever is the issue he claims to be the most influential to his career. In a recent Wizzard issue, Waid said that the plot structure Adventure #369 (Mordru the Merciless) has inspired him as a writer. And he has tried to emulate "the Oh sh**!" ending to that issue in his own work. The fact that he is a big Legion fan and obviously had good taste has got to count for something.
I don't think that there's any chance Waid will do any sort of reboot. I agree with SOM that relaunch surely means a new #1, though I hope that isn't the case. Cancelling a title only to come out with another 'first issue' whenever sales dip is a disturbing trend these days.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by MLLASH: Anything Michael Turner draws is a gold mine.
Agreed! His current Superman/Batman arc is amazing!
Jim Lee has expressed a strong desire to do the Legion for some time, there's been hints in every interview he does that he might try to tackle the Legion next after Superman. I think this is GREAT news, and hope that one day Lee can do a run (even if only twelve issues). Imagine the Legion in the top ten!
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
quote:Originally posted by capt._dallas: This is a very creative and well-thought out idea, Eryk. Now seriously... imagine having a meeting with Stephen Wacker, Paul Levitz, Jeannette Kahn, etc. and you present them this idea. Explain to THEM how your idea will NOT drive away (1) existing fans of "The Legion" (2) new fans that aren't versed in Legion lore and don't want to spend the money or time reading a "Secrets of the Legion" series to be convinced it's a concept they want to keep reading. How does your idea attract new readers?
This is all predicated on the notion that some sort of relaunch or change in direction is needed for the title. There is no guarantee that any shift in the direction of the series will maintain the current readership. The advantage of a Crisis-style collapsing of the Legion timelines into a single universe is that it allows something much more like the "classic" Legion to return without completely losing the good stuff that's happened since 1994. Part of the hope is that this would bring back fans who were alienated by the reboot, plus attract some of the numerous top creators who have said they'd like to work on the Legion, but only on the "old" Legion. Top creators = better sales.
As far as expecting people to buy a "Secrets" mini; well, that's really just for people who are interested in what the exact history of these characters are. It's certainly much easier than the situation of the current new fan, who would have to pick up all of the reboot back issues to know the history of the current Legion. They wouldn't necessarily need the mini to understand the new series, but it would be there for those who were interested in the backstory of the new version of the Legion.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
I'd say a Secrets mini would have to be a good seller. The first two issues (was a 3rd ever released?) of JLA-Z sold over 83,000 copies total for both. And we all know what crap it was. A mini with actual useful info would be great.
And I second Eryk's idea of bringing Condo back as a villain. If I can't have him in place of KQII (I hate even typing her name) then bring him on as a badass that hands her her's. Written correctly Condo could be on level (almost) with the Progeniter.
[ May 03, 2004, 12:38 PM: Message edited by: Lightning Lad ]
Posted by Star Boy on :
Whatever happens, I doubt greatly that it'll be anything resembling a reboot or deboot or unboot or whatever.
And I know I'd be pretty sad if it was - remember, some of us know the preboot Legion only in back issues and such. I totally appreciate the regard many here have for the preboot Legion, but I'd be quite disillusioned if there was an arbitrary change to bring back preboot elements without a ripping good story behind it.
(Of course, if the ripper presented itself, I'd be cheering with the rest of you. So long as the story's good, I'm happy. And that's why whatever Waid comes up with will probably get my thumbs up.)
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