Does anyone know if they've gone up since Legion 25? After all, that was the point of Superboy, Darkseid and the big publicity push DC's been giving it wasn't it?
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
It'll be a couple of weeks, probably, before we see the sales figures for # 26. With Legion being bi-weekly for the last month we are kinda ahead in issues but behind in the rankings. The last listing was released on 11/11 which had the rankings for # 25. The next one should have # 26, # 27 and the Secret Files.
Posted by Portfolio Boy on :
Here are the sales figures for Legion #26 & 27, courtesy of icv2.com.
I'm still looking for were we put the figures on #25
81 LEGION #26 26,635 86 LEGION #27 25,667
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
I've actually got the figures gathered for the whole year. Just waiting for the final actual numbers for Novemember I believe. I'll post it tonight if I get time.
Posted by Star Boy on :
I'd be interested to see that...
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Here are The Legion's numbers from last December through last month. The figures for November are estimates and are provided from ICV2.
December 85 21.90 LEGION #15 $2.50 23,962
Posted by Portfolio Boy on :
A fellow named Marc-Oliver Frisch has posted the icv2 sales figures on usenet, along with %increases/decreases in sales. Here are his summary calculations. As you can see, Legion is looking good right now in terms of sales gains over the last six months:
+32.5%: Birds of Prey +17.7%: Cartoon Cartoons +14.9%: Legion +11.5%: Wonder Woman +11.0%: Catwoman + 6.9%: Flash + 5.8%: Y: The Last Man + 3.1%: Fables + 2.6%: JSA + 0.8%: Gotham Central - 0.4%: JLA - 0.9%: Nightwing - 1.2%: Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight - 1.8%: Batman: Gotham Knights - 2.2%: Lucifer - 2.3%: Detective Comics, Robin - 3.2%: Scooby Doo - 7.2%: Action Comics - 7.5%: Hawkman - 7.7%: Looney Tunes - 7.8%: Hellblazer - 8.1%: Justice League Adventures - 8.3%: Superman & Batman: Generations III - 8.7%: Superman, Adventures of Superman - 9.8%: Sleeper -10.0%: Batgirl -11.8%: Powerpuff Girls -13.0%: Wildcats Version 3.0 -13.7%: Harley Quinn -19.4%: Stormwatch -21.4%: Green Lantern, Gen 13 -22.9%: Superman: Metropolis -24.8%: H.E.R.O. -25.5%: Green Arrow -26.3%: JSA All-Stars -27.8%: Aquaman -34.9%: Batman Adventures -38.9%: Batman -42.2%: The Authority
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
While I like to see the Legion having the third best showing I doubt the accuracy of a list that has Batman at an almost negative 39%. This was a title that sold over 100,000 copies per month for the last year. How can that be a decrease in sales?
Posted by Portfolio Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by Lightning Lad:
While I like to see the Legion having the third best showing I doubt the accuracy of a list that has Batman at an almost negative 39%. This was a title that sold over 100,000 copies per month for the last year. How can that be a decrease in sales?
6 months ago we were in the midst of Jim Lee's run onthe title. Now we are past all that. Monstrous sales slip post-Lee.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Has the drop been that bad? I hadn't noticed the numbers on the new creative team's run yet. And I only thought we were two issues into it. Heck, I'm way behind on my reading.
Posted by STU on :
(Reminder to self: add the delightful Cartoon Cartoons to my pull list! )
Posted by Portfolio Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by Lightning Lad: Has the drop been that bad? I hadn't noticed the numbers on the new creative team's run yet.
03/ 2003: Batman #613 -- 147,799 04/ 2003: Batman #614 -- 164,858 (+ 11.5%) 05/ 2003: Batman #615 -- 158,350 (- 4.0%) 06/ 2003: Batman #616 -- 152,652 (- 3.6%) 07/ 2003: Batman #617 -- 158,844 (+ 4.1%) 08/ 2003: Batman #618 -- 152,526 (- 4.0%) 09/ 2003: Batman #619 -- 307,521 (+101.6%) 10/ 2003: Batman #620 -- 109,160 (- 64.5%)* 11/ 2003: Batman #621 -- 96,784 (- 11.3%)
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
300k copies! I haven't seen numbers like that since the 80's! I bet whoever assigned Loeb and Lee to Batman got a Christmas bonus for those sales.
Posted by Rusty Shackleford on :
Y'know, I usually pay attention to those numbers, but I had not a clue that Legion #25 did 30,000 copies! Very cool. Sure, the subsequent issues didn't maintain that, but they're still doing a whole lot better than the title had been doing.
Thanks Lightning Lad!
Posted by Invisible Brainiac on :
Good to see that the Legion's doing better. Yeah, go Legion! Thanks for the numbers, guys!
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
My list above is updated with the preliminary ranking for The Legion #28 for December, 2003.
[edit note: reposted below for easy of navigation]
The Legion #28 actually went up in sales from #27, almost matching #26 sales. It will be interesting to see the actually number for the month for all titles to see where The Legion really falls.
[ January 09, 2004, 08:09 PM: Message edited by: Lightning Lad ]
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Lightning Lad: Here are The Legion's numbers from last December through last month. The figures for November are estimates and are provided from ICV2.
Do most "Secret Files" issues sell less than the main book? This one was a bit of a slump. Looks like they've bumped up by about 3000 copies relative to last year. That seems fairly significant given the base - most businesses would be happy with a year-to-year sales increase of over 10%.
Posted by Invisible Brainiac on :
Secret Files probably would sell less, since they cost more and aen't that essential to the current storyline. Least, that's what I think. Wonder what could account for the increase in sales from 27 to 28, though, when 27 decreased from 26?
Posted by Portfolio Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by Invisible Brainiac: Wonder what could account for the increase in sales from 27 to 28, though, when 27 decreased from 26?
Retailers ordered higher than usual on #25 due to the appearance of Superboy, and it being an anniversary issue.
Issues #26 & 27 were ordered before retailers saw the actual sales results in their stores for #25. Therefore, retailers naturally cut their orders for each subsequent issue from #25.
Since #28 went back up again, I think we can assume that actual sales on #25 were better than retailers thought they might be, and so bumped their order on #28 up somewhat.
It will be interesting to see where sales fall over time now that it has been announced that DnA are leaving.
Also, flash-forward 20-years. Expect Legion collectors trying to complete their runs to, in general, have a harder time finding copies of #26 & 27 than other surrounding issues. The same phenomemoa holds true for 2nd & 3rd issues of many series, especially from the Golden and early Silver ages.
Posted by Igee The Mighty on :
Legion's definitely better. There's just really an avalanche of mini-series right now on the major lists (JSA All-Stars, 1602, Ultimate Six, etc.)
Actually, it seems like the new trend is having a season 2, ala Legion Lost & Legion Worlds, or more recently, The Ultimates. I think it has something to do with putting books into trades, but that's just my 2 cents.
Posted by Sanity or Madness? on :
If Marvel's claims for UFF1 sales ("over 200K") are accurate, then L28 sold at least 28850 copies (Although this only matches up with other icv2 figures if its confined solely to NA comic shop sales).
And an interesting thing I just noticed is that SF&O's have STAR rather than month (e.g. OCT) codes. Which means that they're kept available for reorder the same way as TPBs are. Maybe that's another reason why their sales are lower.
Posted by Portfolio Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?: If Marvel's claims for UFF1 sales ("over 200K") are accurate, then L28 sold at least 28850 copies (Although this only matches up with other icv2 figures if its confined solely to NA comic shop sales).
Not sure what you are getting at here. The Diamond Index figure is a percentage of Batman's sales. That's why the Diamond Indenx for UFF should be over 100. There shoud be no way to otherwise extrapolate Legion's sales numbers from those of UFF.
Posted by Sanity or Madness? on :
Yes there is, just multiply it by 27.25/188.73
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Here are the figures for the 5 Secret Files that hit the Top 300 during 2003. The Teen Titans/Outsiders had sales spread over two months, the only one to do so.
Legion Secret Files 3003 19,231 November $4.95 Teen Titans/Outsiders Secret Files 2003 4,046 November $5.95 Superman/Batman Secret Files 2003 41,224 October $4.95 Teen Titans/Outsiders Secret Files 2003 41,118 October $5.95 Birds of Prey Secret Files 2003 16,569 June $4.95 Aquaman Secret Files 2003 19,313 March $4.95
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
We got beat out by Aquaman. Posted by Lightning Lad on :
But only by 82 issues. I can accept that. What I can't accept is the ultra-crappy Teen Titans/Outsiders outselling every Secret Files. That's just sickening.
Posted by Sanity or Madness? on :
quote:Originally posted by Nightcrawler: We got beat out by Aquaman.
He wasn't in the orange shirt then tho. If it happened now he's being stuck back in it, that'd be another matter...
Posted by MLLASH on :
If I may be permitted a moment of blashpemy...
I think I'm currently enjoying both Outsiders & Teen Titans MORE than Legion.
(of course, LEGION will always be my all-time favorite, but...)
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
I'll forgive you for the Titans Lash but not the Outsiders.
Actually, I've not picked up the Outsiders and only a few issues of the Titans. But it was their Secret Files that I found truly horrible.
Posted by MLLASH on :
Their combo Secret Files issue was a MAJOR disappointment.
Frankly, I'm surprised it was permitted to be published.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Here's a detailed analysis of The Legion's November's numbers as posted by Jim Drew to Legion Pics.
(See bottom of post for what "actual" means here.)
November had *three* Legion issues (two issues of The Legion and one of Legion Secret Files 3003), which will complicate the analysis here. Sorry.
The Legion #28 (Foundations, part 4) comes in at #82 (#103 in dollar value), right around #86/103 on issue #27 #85/95 on issue #26. It sold 27.25 copies for each 100 copies of the #11 book (Batman #622; mostly special Marvel books are higher), compared with 26.52 and 27.52 for the previous two issues.
82 103 27.25 LEGION #28 $2.50 DC
Since we can expect Batman numbers to continue to lower a little, it's reasonable to estimate that this issue is coming in at about the same number ordered as the previous two (which itself is a pretty good thing), somewhere in the high 30K range. I don't have estimated actual numbers for Batman for either month to give a better value, but it's certainly higher than where the Legion sat a few months ago, in the mid-to-low 20Ks
There are 30 DC/Vertigo/Wildstorm titles above The Legion (4 in the top 20: two copies of Superman/Batman, Batman, and Teen Titans; JLA would have made it but for four multiple issues above it). DC titles within 10 spots of The Legion: Batman: Death & the Maidens (#72), Adventures of Superman (#766), Hawkman (#77), Y: The Last Man (#78), Batgirl (#79), Fables (#80), Authority/Lobo Christmas Special (#81), Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight (#83), Superman/Batman: Generations III (#84), Catwoman (#85), Authority (#87), Thundercats: Hammerhand's Revenge (#91), and Rose & Thorn (#92). Ten of these were in the same zone last month, showing that everything from DC is holding relatively steady in this sales plateau.
Reorders of Batman #621 came in at #237 with a 4.32 ranking, adding about 5000 copies its orders. CrossGen's Sojourn #30 charts at #90, and El Cazador is down at #119, both about the same as last month.
There are 9 #1's or special issues (one-shots, anniversaries, special price issues, or otherwise readily notable items; add a couple more if a 25-issue multiple is "special") above The Legion (vs. 4 in November but 11 in October): Ultimate Fantastic Four #1, New X-Men #150, Ultimate Spider-Man #50, Wanted #1, Transformers: Generation One vol. 3 #0, Superman #200, Plastic Man #1, Star Wars: Infinities: Return of the Jedi #1, and Authority/Lobo Christmas Special.
There are 17 mini-series components and one-shots (18 in November; including a couple not labelled as such, such as Ultimates #12). 6 of these have their last or only issues this month, and one will probably drop below the Legion's slot.
Seven series dumped two issues (X-Treme X-Men beleched four!) rather than just one above The Legion this month; compare to 8 last month. 5 of those issues were a month or more late, and 2 others had been resolicited.
Of the items above The Legion, 11 items were solicited for shipping in previous months (vs. 12 in November). Spawn, of course, continues to be Most Notorious, with #131 original solicited the previous December. (But look positive: it has been monthly for several issues now, so while it's a year late, it's at least being regular.)
The practical placement of The Legion #26 in terms of ongoing series is thus #55 (#82 minus known minis, multiples, and one-shots); it was #54 last month (and #55 the month before that). Placement in terms of on-time shipping books is #71 (same as last month). Again, major stability being seen here.
Jim
("Actual": This reflects the "actual sales", the final shipping number for the month to shops, as opposed to the "initial orders". This thus includes items which were ordered for earlier months and just came out now, and doesn't include ones which were ordered for November but didn't come out. And "actual sales" means what came into the shops; it doesn't reflect whether a comic sold out at the shop in two hours or sat untouched for the entire month.)
Posted by Portfolio Boy on :
December numbers are in from icv2.com Legion is down 625 copies from last issue, but is still up 1080 copies from a year ago.
Judging by te Diamond index, we are also gaining ground on Batman.
Our place among all comic is roughly the same from a year ago: 82nd now verses 85th then.
DEC 82 27.25 LEGION #28 $2.50 25,042 NOV 86 26.52 LEGION #27 $2.50 25,667 NOV 81 27.52 LEGION #26 $2.50 26,635 NOV 119 19.87 Secret Files 3003 $4.95 19,231 OCT 87 25.97 LEGION #25 $3.95 30,440 SRP 94 19.69 LEGION #24 $2.50 22,653 AUG 98 15.27 LEGION #23 $2.50 22,466 JUL 101 15.68 LEGION #22 $2.50 22,987 JUN 92 16.10 LEGION #21 $2.50 22,749 MAY 92 16.09 LEGION #20 $2.50 23,184 APR 97 15.20 LEGION #19 $2.50 23,214 MAR 90 17.14 LEGION #18 $2.50 23,180 FEB 75 18.39 LEGION #17 $2.50 23,005 JAN 71 19.78 LEGION #16 $2.50 23,744 DEC 85 21.90 LEGION #15 $2.50 23,962
Posted by Igee The Mighty on :
All I know is, I was able to get to of my comics buddies to buy Legion. They even went as far as buying "The Legion" back issues, from 1-24 (they started on Legion 25!
All it takes is 1 person to get another person. If all 25,000 Legion readers (I don't think Legion's a title yet that people are compelled to buy 2 copies for) got one other person, we'd be looking at numbers like 50,000! Word-of-mouth really does it!
If 150 people on this board get at least 2 people, then that'll be 300 additional issues! I know it sounds illogical, but word-of-mouth can do that! I've stopped harping about DC's lack of advertising support, which is why I'm running out of saliva just talking to people about how good this book is! Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Well you're off by one. I buy two of each Legion every month. Have since the new title started.
Posted by Invisible Brainiac on :
I've gotten 5 others into reading the Legion, but i haven't hooked them far enough for them to buy copies for themselves yet... Living on a meager allowance tends to do that. Posted by Lightning Lad on :
The figures for January 2004 are in. And where does the Legion stand?
First a recap of November and December's rankings:
Which, if you remember, was up from previous months and mostly contributed to the push for the anniversary issue. So here is January's figures:
77 27.97 LEGION #29 $2.50
It'll be another couple of weeks before the actual figures are released but they are up almost another 3/4 a point. Maybe 4 issues out from #25 is still too soon but just maybe The Legion has finally started reaching out to new readers.
Unfortunately it's probably Chris' and Chip's art that's doing it and we're loosing them soon.
[ February 12, 2004, 05:25 AM: Message edited by: Lightning Lad ]
Posted by Portfolio Boy on :
Have we confirmed that Chris & Chip are going?
After DnA there is a fill-in, then Gail Simone for (5?) issues, then unknown for a regular writer.
But I have not yeat head any confirmation of a new art team, even for any of the upcoming new writers
Posted by Pov on :
Chip just mentioned he was freshly off the book here , PoFo.
Posted by armsfalloffboy on :
Why "Bite my shiny metal ass" didn't become as popular a catchphrase as "eat my shorts," I'll never know.
Does anyone know if there is a possibility of resurrection, a la Family Guy? I'm pretty sure I know the answer, but hope springs eternal...
Posted by armsfalloffboy on :
hmmm, looks like that got posted to the wrong thread...
Posted by Portfolio Boy on :
According to icv2.com, the actual sales for #29 were 24,908
Posted by Bedlam Lad on :
Ach, were down some. Not good.
But after DnA have finished their run, Gail gets a shot, and right now Gail is DC's golden goose. Didn't Birds of Prey jump up 30% in sales or something? (I know I started reading it) Either way, her name should grab a few new readers.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
The December numbers, which I didn't have above, were sales of 25,042, so we're down less than 150 issues, which I don't think is too shabby. Especially compared to the numbers for the previous months where we dropped 1500+ from November to December. Five issues, almost 6 months worth of stories (I know we had double issue months) and we've leveled off about 3000 issues above what the numbers used to be. That has to be a good thing.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
February's figures are in. No actual numbers yet, that will come later.
78 29.75 LEGION #30 $2.50
So we fell by one notch but our shar of sales went up by 1.78. Not to bad, in my eyes.
One other title I have to note. Dark Horse's Conan #1 came in at 28 with an index of 61.15, beating out the first issue of The Pulse. The new Conan is quickly becoming one of my favorite titles.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
The Legion inched up in their share of sales for March but dropped like a rock in position.
For March:
91 29.83 The Legion #31
Now, at my count, there were 20 titles that released a #1 or were part of a limited series above them. Plus a number of normally higher ranked titles released two issues for March (Superman/Batman, Ultimate Spider-Man, and at least 5 others).
I don't think the drop is that bad considering their market share is still up over where they were a year ago (17.14). Maybe with Gail and company we will finally crack the top 50.
Posted by Pov on :
Not with all the X- and Spider-$#!t Marvel's flooding the marketplace with... Posted by Lightning Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Pov: Not with all the X- and Spider-$#!t Marvel's flooding the marketplace with...
Flooding is right. It seems like the fifth week events that were supposed to replace annuals has gotten out of control at the House of Ideas. Every month they have titles with 2 or more releases. Hell, it took me months to catch up from last year's 5-books-in-one-month on the Exiles.
Anyone curious as to what titles placed where in the Top 300 can find the full list here. I was surprised to see that Superman/Batman #8 outsold JLA/Avengers #4.
Posted by Cubicle Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by Lightning Lad: I don't think the drop is that bad considering their market share is still up over where they were a year ago (17.14). Maybe with Gail and company we will finally crack the top 50.
Ummm, sorry to burst your bubble Scott, but that Diamond Index number you reference does not represent "market share." It represents the sales on the book relative to the industry standard title: Batman. The 17.14 means that for every 100 copis of Batman sold, the Legion sold 17.14
Recall, a year ago Batman was in the midst of Lee's run on the title.
Sales of Batman have dropped percipitously since Lee's run ended, thus the rise in the Diamond Index # for the Legion.
Duke
[ April 16, 2004, 11:46 AM: Message edited by: Cubicle Kid ]
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
I always forget that. It used to be market share didn't it?
Even though, at that rate, the Legion is still selling above 25K in copies. That's based on Batman still doing in the 88K range (an average of its last 3 months of sales).
Someone tell me, please, whose brilliant idea it was to base the index number on a title that was selling extraordinarily high rather than a stable one? There had to be another title that was doing around 100K a month and was in stable sales when Diamond implemented the new rating system. Ultimate X-Men and Ultimate Spider-Man are, ususally, consistent in sales between 95K and 100K. That, to me, would have been a better indicator than the middle of a Jim Lee run on Batman.
Posted by Cubicle Kid on :
quote:Originally posted by Lightning Lad: Someone tell me, please, whose brilliant idea it was to base the index number on a title that was selling extraordinarily high rather than a stable one?
IIRC, the "industry standard" used to be Amazing Spider-Man. Again, IIRC, Diamond switched to using Batman sometime around the time of the first Tim Burton movie.
And of course, the initial reason for choosing the title was that it is/was a gernerally high charting title with stable sales.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Jim Drew, from LegionPics, has always provided a good, IMO, breakdown of the ranking for The Legion. With his approval (which he gave months ago) I've added his post as a new feature to my site. The first one, the sales for March, is added now and I'll add others as time permits. Let me, and Jim know, what you think. Anything posted here I'll post over to LegionPics for Jim to see. I don't think he's ever made his way over here.
Posted by Outdoor Miner on :
quote:Originally posted by Lightning Lad: Maybe with Gail and company we will finally crack the top 50.
One can hope.
Gail's run is coming out biweekly, isn't it? If true, it's a nice sign that DC is still trying to push the title.
Posted by Sanity or Madness? on :
Only Marvel titles below it are X-STATIX (cancelled), CAPTAIN MARVEL (cancelled), SPIDER-MAN/DOC OCTOPUS OUT OF REACH (Of 5) (mini), PUNISHER MOVIE (mini), SPIDER-GIRL, ELEKTRA (cancelled), RUNAWAYS, HAWKEYE (cancelled), INHUMANS (cancelled), NAMOR (cancelled), HULK NIGHTMERICA (mini), HUMAN TORCH (cancelled), HULK UNCHAINED (mini which didn't even get properly solicited). See a pattern? Only two books, both Marvel Age titles, aren't cancelled - Runaways and that perpetual "cancelled - wait, no it's not" title, Spider-Girl.
DC terms, most of the ones below it are Vertigo books, cartoon tie-ins, minis or cancelled too. Taking out the non-DCU titles (including DC Focus books and Mature Readers), we're left with BATMAN LEGENDS OF THE DARK KNIGHT, CATWOMAN, SUPERMAN SECRET IDENTITY (mini), AQUAMAN, GOTHAM CENTRAL, PLASTIC MAN, BATMAN: CITY OF LIGHT (mini), BATMAN/POISON IVY CAST SHADOWS (Prestige one-shot), HERO, ROSE & THORN (mini), MONOLITH.
And of them, Catwoman and Aquaman have had recent pushes (as, indeed, Legion did @ #25), and Plastic Man and Monolith are both under the six-issue mark. It's not quite as unhealthy, but it's not where you'd want to stay and stick around.
[Both of these lists discount reordered books that initially charted higher]
I suppose that this cancellation/possible new #1 should have come as no surprise, huh?
[ May 10, 2004, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: Sanity or Madness? ]
Posted by Sanity or Madness? on :
Sales going back as far as I can get 'em (Feb 1999) [in sq. brackets is change from previous month where available]:
Key -
Michael Burns Usenet posts (from Google Groups) Carl Henderson's numbers from http://j_carl_henderson.tripod.com icv2's pre-order numbers icv2's actual sales (to retailers) nos
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