Chris Batista's art is really beautiful in this issue. If he keeps on putting out work like this that continues growing in excellence, I may have to update my personal "Legion Greatest Artists" poll!
The story begins on Apokolips with a large horde of fanatics throwing themselves into a firepit with the express purpose of awakening the Dark Lord. A somewhat hackneyed plot device, but HERE? In the 30'th century? This juxtaposition of future time and ancient mode of worship keeps it very fresh and exciting, and sets the tone for a good issue. (More on the Servants later)
Ah... Kon-El, Kon-El, Kon-El... is there any hero more incessantly irritating than thee? At least he doesn't disappoint in his irritatingness. I really enjoyed having Cosmic Boy around to share the irritation with. As far as Superboy, Cos was really a POV character in this ish, and I liked that. I also thought it very apropos that Cos would be so irritated with Kon as most everyone else seems to more or less adore him (even though there should be plenty pf Legionnaires who have experience with Kon-El.) Rokk IS a great hero, and frankly, Kon-El is not, but wears the colors of the greatest or maybe second-greatest hero of all time. (Valor being the greatest to the denizens of the 30'th century, of course. Where WAS Mon-El in this ish, anyway?) I would be irritated too.
I'm a bit frustrated with the "5 weeks later" pacing. Cute title, but there are a few subplots that got lost in the wake. I'm really irritated that I didn't get to see Ayla's initial response to Jarth. Or Mekt, for that matter. I guess he's back on Winath, now? And what about Cub Nah? It's 5 weeks later, shouldn't he be like 26 now, what with his hyper-crazy aging? I know I'm exaggerating, but other than a cute attempt to be all TMK on our collective asses (which I'm sure was the intent of that "5 weeks later" panel,) DnA really ought to keep their plot-balls bouncing more nicely than they seem to do. I'm not knocking this story, as far as I'm concerned, it was a great second ish to the arc.
The new Servants of Darkness! I recognized Barda, Orion, Supes (duh!), Hawkgirl, FIRESTORM???, some Green-Lantern powered armor guy, and an alien who I think is supposed to be J'onn J'onzz in his martian form. Whooooo! It will be interesting to see if they're all plucked throughout time like Clark and brainwashed, or if they're clones, or whatever. Also of interest are the three who got the young Clark Kent from the past, who we briefly saw again. Who are they?
It was great to see Brainy and Lyle working on a science project together again.
One last thought... the scene on the command deck... included were Imra, Rokk, Jazmin, Lu, Nura, Querl, and Lyle (sexily sitting backwards in the chair again! LOVE that pose for Lyle!) Could those 7 be kind of the ad hoc Legion leadership? We have represented there 3 ex-leaders, a pre-cog, a Coluan, the current leader, and the situations exec. I thought the choice of those 7 cnaracters in that scene was dead on.
Well, just in case it seems like I'm heaping too much praise on our much-beleagured-of-late writing team, does it come as any surprise to anyone that one month after introducing the 21 Legion cadets, not a peep was heard out of them? It doesn't surprise me at all.
Still, good job on the main story, guys. Let's work on picking up the loose ends, and we'll have a great comic book on our hands.
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
My favorite panel AND line is the top panel when Blah-El gets socked past the Legion "could you switch to a power OTHER than ultra-sarcasm?"
There were a couple other really good lines.
The issue, like #25 carried more story and characterisation than usual efforts, though DnA still struggles with pacing. They pick up and drop more balls than Harvey Fierstein.
Poor Ferro is still the projectile.
Coz, Coz, Coz, not the ol reach with the lips buss! Get your face in there and lay the smack on.
Hmmmmm, have we ever seen a Neck-rub in Legion?
Last page!
HATED IT!!!! hated the costume, hated the belt.
quote:Originally posted by Kid Prime: Ah... Kon-El, Kon-El, Kon-El... is there any hero more incessantly irritating than thee? [/QB]
No, yet I had hopes that DnA might find a way to make hime refreshing. Honestly, I did not enjoy much of this issue except the premise. Well to be more positive, it didn't exactly bowl me over. The story however marches on.
quote:Originally posted by Kid Prime: Rokk IS a great hero, and frankly, Kon-El is not, but wears the colors of the greatest or maybe second-greatest hero of all time. [/QB]
Reason #1: Kon is NOT even a major player either from the POV of the DCU nor fandom. Unless the gushing has to do with something he has not yet done, assigning the S legacy to him, him waking the Church of S, is not grabbing me as credible.
quote:Originally posted by Kid Prime: The new Servants of Darkness! I recognized Barda, Orion, Supes (duh!), Hawkgirl, FIRESTORM???, [/QB]
Reason #2 with reservations: One of them looked alot like Lobo.
quote:Originally posted by Kid Prime: It was great to see Brainy and Lyle working on a science project together again. [/QB]
Okay, I did like the promenade invisibly through the crowd routine.
quote:Originally posted by Kid Prime: Chris Batista's art is really beautiful in this issue.
One last thought... the scene on the command deck... included were Imra, Rokk, Jazmin, Lu, Nura, Querl, and Lyle (sexily sitting backwards in the chair again! LOVE that pose for Lyle!) [/QB]
Reason #3: I've been a fan, but other than the servants, I've not liked the much. Not the tech, not the blank stares on the characters. The scene to which you are refering is TOO posed for my taste, given it is a non-action shot. And is Triad going japanesa?
[ November 12, 2003, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: Blockade Boy ]
Posted by ether_lad on :
i liked #26, even if i did think i missed a whole issue. the whole 5 week jump was a bit jarring for me. a lot of things could have been developed better if there was a #25.5 or something. since when are jazmin and rokk so intimate? and we really could have gotten more of a reaction from everyone about the garth/jan's return. apparently no one cares, or is bothered by it other than imra. it would've been nice to see cham's reaction, especially since he's buds with live wire and also saw the progenitor "delete" montress. great opportunity for a story there, and it was just totally skipped.
at least we get to see a little more of vi.
and i see umbra's in her <shudder> shadow tramp outfit.
i, also, hated the superboy uniform. i like superboy as a character, but not in a mini-super suit. it's tacky. he's made it a point to not be superman jr. why throw him in that outfit? and i know the athramites have better taste than that.
here's to hoping we get to see the batman and wonder woman versions of darkseid's servants. yeeha!
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
I enjoyed the issue, but I keep getting the feeling that everything is not as it seems.
I found the "Five Weeks Later..." a bit jarring, though DnA seem to be purposively playing on elements of the Legion's past for this story (I take it the entire "Foundations" arc is supposed to be a continous celebration of the 45 years of Legion history, and this is their TMK reference).
What's utterly perplexing is the fact that Superboy has visited the 31st century before, and it was explicitly stated that his return was not a big deal (especially compared to Valor's), as if he wasn't really remembered. Plus this whole Cos as a member of the "Church of the Last Son" seems to come out of nowhere as well.
My theory is that the "temporal anomolies" are ultimately playing more havoc than is obvious thus far.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Okay I'm still reading it, on the first page with *shudder* Jarth and Imra but I had to comment on the previous pages.
I love Batista. His work is great and is quickly growing on me. He is definitely now one of my top 10 Legion artists. If he keeps refining his work at this pace he'll be signed to an exclusive contract with Marvel by year end.
BUT, and to me this is a big but, he need to work on his continuity. Or consistency, whichever you want to call it. The moment Jo switched to Ultra-vision he was a dead man. He had already been shown on a previous panel not wearing a transsuit arm band. Then he conveniently had one on during the battle and then after it was missing again. Also, and keep in mind I'm not finished reading yet, one of Jeka's new powers seems to be that of surviving in space with out a sealed system of some sort. She was not once show with a transsuit band. And come to think of it neither was Tasmia. But Kon had one proudly displayed to remind us he can't breathe in space.
It is this kind of inconsistency that drives me crazy. But it also forces me to focus as much on the art as it does the story.
I'll post more later after I've finished reading the issue.
Posted by STU on :
Some initial thoughts:
I wonder if Brainy and Lyle were holding hands?
In the 31st century, a mouth-kiss is a casual way of thanking a friend for small favors, such as neckrubs.
From whom did Superboy get that T-shirt? Mano?
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
I thought it was Val's T-shirt he was borrowing.
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by STU: From whom did Superboy get that T-shirt? Mano?
Isn't there a group in the DCU called "The Black Hand?" Or is that a real thing?
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Blockade Boy:
quote:Originally posted by STU: From whom did Superboy get that T-shirt? Mano?
Isn't there a group in the DCU called "The Black Hand?" Or is that a real thing?
The Black Hand is otherwise known as La Casa Nostra or the Mafia. Whether you believe in them or not they've been around since the 19th Century. I've not heard mention of them in the Legion. There was a group called the Black Heart and in Legionnaires #1 there was a group called The Hand. The latter is probably the one you are remembering.
Posted by Nightcrawler on :
I agree with most of what's been said. Especially KP & LL's take on things.
Batista & Wallace are looking good. (Chip wanna join our little MB?)
Posted by STU on :
quote:Originally posted by Lightning Lad: There was a group called the Black Heart and in Legionnaires #1 there was a group called The Hand. The latter is probably the one you are remembering.
Oh yeah, now I remember. Poor Mega... she found out the hard way what happens when you turn against Mano...
(And now I also remember in that issue, after Saturn Girl probed Mega's mind, she felt really nauseated and actually vomited. I guess they conveniently -- and wisely -- stopped addressing that aspect of Imra's power...)
Posted by Awkward Pause Boy on :
I really liked this issue.
Just for fun, I'm going to say that's the Batman dark-servant to the left of the throne.
Wow, I so missed that Five Weeks Later/Five-Year Gap parallel. Cool.
I didn't mind it either. Though, frankly, having to focus any more than minimally necessary on the whole Jarth thing is something I'd prefer to avoid, so skipping ahead a few weeks was a great way to let me do so.
I loved the whole bit with them investigating and fighting at the stargate. It was like everyone had personalities--and you got to see them wear those personalities for more than just a page.
I have grown to very much appreciate Chris Batista's work. Sometimes the characters' faces can look a bit static, but I grow to appreciate that as well. I hope he's having fun with it.
The time blips weren't something I expected to be a major part of the plot, but have become quite intriguing.
Still miss Jan. Still hate Jarth. That's all for now.
Posted by DrakeB3003 on :
Random thoughts: -- Batista's art is looking great! I particularly like the way he and "Sno Cone" handle Ferro. -- The new crop of Dark Servants are also looking really good (esp Orion). The GL one is a mystery if it's supposed to be one that we've seen. If not, it's an interesting new design. -- If it's five weeks later, *why* would "Jarth" still wear Element Lad's uniform?? Having his appearance would be disturbing enough, but there's no reason for him to wear the suit other than to tell readers "he's in Jan's body". -- I also agree that it was odd to not show the team's reaction to "Jarth". Then again, it seems DnA write this book in a kind of "random access" style -- stuff's going on all the time off-panel (like the Rokk/ Jaz romance), and we just get glimpses that make us have to play catch up all the time. -- The Lyle/ Brainy scene was very cool, but only made me wish Brainy were consulting with Rond. It seems Lyle has not only taken over Cham's role as head of espionage, but Rond's role as Brainy's scientific collaborator (which explains why DnA haven't reintroduced Rond I guess). -- The elevation of Superman (and by extension Superboy's) role in the 31st century seem odd to me. I thought M'on replaced Supes as the "inspiration"? Guess the Superman office strikes again...
Posted by Parasitic Twin on :
I loved this issue! Batista's art is really improving and the colors seemed to leap off the page. I think the unexpected Jazmin/Rokk intimacy has something to do with Jaz's random time-jumps. Perhaps she missed the start of her own romance? I bet the dark servant that ripped off Kon's emblem is the Clark we saw in #25. Ferro seems to be holding on to his more agressive attitude. Finally, it was nice to see the Athramites again.
Posted by Sanity or Madness? on :
I did NOT like this issue.
Kon himself didn't get on my nerves so much - the way EVERYONE was gushing over him, near enough - THAT got on my nerves.
Why don't they just stick the frelling "Superboy and" in the title like they clearly want to and be done with it, so I can be to.
Posted by STU on :
quote:Originally posted by Lightning Lad: But Kon had one proudly displayed to remind us he can't breathe in space.
Which is odd, because -- upon rereading it -- I realized that he was still wearing the transsuit when the "S" emblem from his shirt was ripped off by the dark servant. Wouldn't that have torn the transsuit too? I dunno... it's not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things, but anything that disrupts one's suspension of disbelief takes a little away from the story.
All in all, though, I've liked this story arc so far -- and I'm glad that we only have to wait two more weeks before the next installation (and only one more week before the next Legion fix)...
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by STU:
quote:Originally posted by Lightning Lad: But Kon had one proudly displayed to remind us he can't breathe in space.
Which is odd, because -- upon rereading it -- I realized that he was still wearing the transsuit when the "S" emblem from his shirt was ripped off by the dark servant. Wouldn't that have torn the transsuit too? I dunno... it's not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things, but anything that disrupts one's suspension of disbelief takes a little away from the story.
All in all, though, I've liked this story arc so far -- and I'm glad that we only have to wait two more weeks before the next installation (and only one more week before the next Legion fix)...
You are totally right about that Stu. It was shown on his right arm when the servant ripped off his shirt. Maybe the new transsuits allow for that somehow. The old ones allowed various powers to still work from within and were not damaged by attacks from without.
See, this is what we need a Secret Files to do. Not just give us a story with pretty pin-ups. Give us a lowdown on the tech (flight rings, transsuits, omnicoms, etc) too. Otherwise little things like this just build up.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Oh and my earlier comment about Tasmia and Jeka not having a transsuit band was incorrect. I'm making a wallpaper out of the splash page on on their initial appearance from the Threshold they are shown with one. So its is just inconsistency throughout with the use of the band.
I'll post the image once I'm down tweaking it.
[ November 13, 2003, 07:13 AM: Message edited by: Lightning Lad ]
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Here it is. I'll probably save one as an 800x600 and as 1024x768. Anyone else have different preferences? Maybe if I can get my site back up I'll load it to my Wallpapers section.
[ November 13, 2003, 07:19 AM: Message edited by: Lightning Lad ]
Posted by jimgallagher on :
I agree that tearing Superboy's emblem off would've opened his transuit and put him in a world of hurt if he can't survive in space, but I've come to expect D&A's lapses.
LOVED the interior art. HATED the cover. I'd love to have that 2 page spread as my desktop picture. Can somebody email a scan of it to me?
I was pretty happy with this issue overall. Gorgeous artwork, multiple plotlines, scarey new servants of darkness. I too would've liked to see Ayla's and Mekt's reaction to Jarth at the very least, if not the rest of the team. And Cub Nah's status should've been addressed too, though i'm getting bored with that drawn out subplot and wish they'd wrap it up already.
I also wish we'd see more of Gates, K Kid, XS, and some of the other little-used characters of late. And what's up with Kinetix these days? Hopefully she'll be dark servant fodder and that'll be the end of her at last.
How about that scan, Lightning Lad?
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
What size do you want Jim? I can scale it to any normal desktop setting. Just let me know and I'll e-mail you a copy. And if you don't prefer it as dark as I have above I can adjust that too.
Posted by Kid Prime on :
Thanks for my new wallpaper, Scott! Pretty!
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Kid Prime: Thanks for my new wallpaper, Scott! Pretty!
Hey Jeffy! You know, I can do it so it'll fit perfectly on your screen if you just tell me what dimensions you need. I shrank the copy above so as not to cause too much trouble with those posting here. I'm more than glad to make personalized copies for anyone who asks. Hell I'm goofing off enough today anyway just playing with the scan. Posted by Kid Prime on :
It's cool, I just blew it up to full-screen size. The dimensions of the picture were perfect.
Posted by DrakeB3003 on :
quote:Originally posted by Lightning Lad: You are totally right about that Stu. It was shown on his right arm when the servant ripped off his shirt. Maybe the new transsuits allow for that somehow. The old ones allowed various powers to still work from within and were not damaged by attacks from without.
Maybe they automatically reseal themselves or the band instantly generates more when it detects a break or rip.
But just to make things easy, they should incorporate the transuit band tech into their L* belt buckles -- no more pesky arm bands to keep track of and they're an eyesore anyway.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by DrakeB3003:
quote:Originally posted by Lightning Lad: You are totally right about that Stu. It was shown on his right arm when the servant ripped off his shirt. Maybe the new transsuits allow for that somehow. The old ones allowed various powers to still work from within and were not damaged by attacks from without.
Maybe they automatically reseal themselves or the band instantly generates more when it detects a break or rip.
But just to make things easy, they should incorporate the transuit band tech into their L* belt buckles -- no more pesky arm bands to keep track of and they're an eyesore anyway.
But don't you remember the good old days Drake?
This is the way it should be done. Posted by Pov on :
Except she's putting it ON....
"TAKE IT OFF!!!" <waves creds frantically>
Posted by Sanity or Madness? on :
quote:Originally posted by DrakeB3003:
quote:Originally posted by Lightning Lad: You are totally right about that Stu. It was shown on his right arm when the servant ripped off his shirt. Maybe the new transsuits allow for that somehow. The old ones allowed various powers to still work from within and were not damaged by attacks from without.
Maybe they automatically reseal themselves or the band instantly generates more when it detects a break or rip.
But just to make things easy, they should incorporate the transuit band tech into their L* belt buckles -- no more pesky arm bands to keep track of and they're an eyesore anyway.
Well, TnT completely forgot about the armbands last issue... then again, they kept forgetting about the belt buckles/flight rings too...
And remember back in issue 6 (?) - the return to the Kwaiverse one with the Credo. Spark gets her transuit torn, and makes a show of having to patch it (don't quite "get" why - they weren't exactly in space @ the time).
Posted by Annoying Lad on :
quote:Why don't they just stick the frelling "Superboy and" in the title like they clearly want to
Don't tease a pre-crisis lover like that! LOL
Posted by Gorilla Nebula on :
i actually enjoyed this issue more than any in awhile. it's fun to get a bi-weekly dose of legion again! -though i still have some reservations on batista's art, there are several stunning shots in this story. the best is the 2 page flying group shot shown previously. whatever you think of sensor's new look, you gotta admit batista does a great job with her. using that tail for great compositions and action shots... -the "hand shirt" worn by kon is supposed to be borrowed from karate kid. notice kon's boots are a pair of ultra boy's. that hand emblem is an homage to a reader designed costume for KK back in the Action back-up days, although the t-shirt color should be white. -a number of legionnaires are giving up the stripe down the middle style of uniform. KK, Umbra, Dreamer, Superboy...didn't batista say he was designing new costumes for Mon and KK? -i agree, i did find the dropping of various pending plotlines disturbing...Cub? Tinya/Jo fighting? reaction to "Jarth"? Mekt? Cos and Jaz's date? -i could understand the starry-eyed reaction to Kon from the public. it's not so much about him personally as a hero, but just the fact that he's a member of the "S" family. any religion or social movement would go crazy. -the legion really needs a private main meeting room again. ..making top secret strategic decisions with all those people around isn't too bright, not too mention the chaos... -although i liked the subtle, ominous time warping effecting Jaz (who has time powers), i am a little tired of the "what is reality" manipulating after all of Universo's shenanigan's. this explains why she'll be stepping down as leader in this arc. - overall i'm looking forward to more developments in this storyline...
Posted by Portfolio Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by STU: Some initial thoughts:
From whom did Superboy get that T-shirt? Mano?
It looked to me like Val's horrid fan designed costumer from Adventure #403. In fact, I was so convinced at first from the shirt that this was a Val/Andy scene that I had to do a double take a couple panels in and start over once I realized it was Kon.
Posted by Portfolio Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by Nightcrawler: I agree with most of what's been said. Especially KP & LL's take on things.
Batista & Wallace are looking good. (Chip wanna join our little MB?)
THis image is a good example of my issues with Batista's art. I mean, in most places it is fantastic. He draws about the most perfect Ayla since James Sherman. However, at least once on every page there will be something I find jarring. I this page the foreshortening on Superboy bugs me, and the proportions on Vi are all wrong, her head is way too big for her body. It makes her look abount nine years old.
Posted by Portfolio Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by DrakeB3003: Random thoughts: -- If it's five weeks later, *why* would "Jarth" still wear Element Lad's uniform?? Having his appearance would be disturbing enough, but there's no reason for him to wear the suit other than to tell readers "he's in Jan's body".
Your probably right as to the real why, but I wonder if we could rationalize it by saying the the costume is not so much cloth but actually a part of his crystaline form? Perhpas Garth has not not yet figured out how to use Jan's powers?
quote:Originally posted by DrakeB3003: -- I also agree that it was odd to not show the team's reaction to "Jarth".
Very, very odd. However, do we know that the team knows about Jarth yet? Imra and Cs could have brough him back in secret and hidden him on the Winath part of Legion World.
Posted by Portfolio Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by STU:
quote:Originally posted by Lightning Lad: But Kon had one proudly displayed to remind us he can't breathe in space.
Which is odd, because -- upon rereading it -- I realized that he was still wearing the transsuit when the "S" emblem from his shirt was ripped off by the dark servant. Wouldn't that have torn the transsuit too?
Transuits were orignally developed as a graphic narrative conceit, a way to draw characters in space without having to put them in a space suit. I seem to recall that they were given, if not at first then as a later addition, the ability to reseal themselves when breached. This allowed Legionnaires to use their powers in space, but alos applies to the situation you mention.
Posted by Sanity or Madness? on :
quote:Originally posted by Portfolio Boy:
quote:Originally posted by DrakeB3003: Random thoughts: -- If it's five weeks later, *why* would "Jarth" still wear Element Lad's uniform?? Having his appearance would be disturbing enough, but there's no reason for him to wear the suit other than to tell readers "he's in Jan's body".
Your probably right as to the real why, but I wonder if we could rationalize it by saying the the costume is not so much cloth but actually a part of his crystaline form? Perhpas Garth has not not yet figured out how to use Jan's powers?
He could still wear either his own costume or a non-EL suit over it. Then again, so could Ferro...
quote:Originally posted by Portfolio Boy:
quote:Originally posted by DrakeB3003: -- I also agree that it was odd to not show the team's reaction to "Jarth".
Very, very odd. However, do we know that the team knows about Jarth yet? Imra and Cs could have brough him back in secret and hidden him on the Winath part of Legion World.
Well, the barest minimum would be for one of the Kwai guides to know - and surely: 1) Ayla would have visited the Winathian area in a five-week spell and 2) "Oh, the Legion still act polite when they see me, but its hard for them."
And it was only on that two-page spread that I figured out that the "Five Weeks Later" was meant to signify a present-->future jump rather than a "the Statueseid scene took place four-five weeks before the end of last issue." Not clear, really.
[ November 13, 2003, 01:00 PM: Message edited by: Sanity or Madness? ]
Posted by Portfolio Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?: [and 2) "Oh, the Legion still act polite when they see me, but its hard for them."
Oh well, that's what I get for producing grand theories at work without the issue in front of me to refer to. I simply forgot that line.
Posted by DrakeB3003 on :
More reactions:
I forgot to mention that DnA have adressed a lot of my concerns about some of their writing here. The plot has advanced nicely and dramatically, we got several nice character moments from various cast members instead of just a few, there are various assignments being taken care of by different members and there were even a few surprises and a few mysteries -- I hope DnA keep up this kind of more balanced storytelling. It's something a book like "The Legion" sorely needs.
Re: Batista -- I like his art a lot, but he still has a tendency to draw asymetrical jawlines -- it's the one thing about his art that just *bugs* me.
[ November 13, 2003, 02:19 PM: Message edited by: DrakeB3003 ]
Posted by the boy with UltraPowers on :
i loved this issue !!!
it's my favourite from the last couple of months !!!
and as others have said the artwork looked amazing !!!
Chirs Batista's pencils looked his most detailed so far !!!
Chip Wallace's inking was really tight and sharp !!!
and Sno Cone's colours were really bright and vibrant !!!
all in all a stella issue !!!
i enjoyed the mixture of storylines going on in this issue, but i would agree with everyone on the continuing unresolved plotlines ....
i thought the "JLA" servants were great and i wanna know more about this Spirit of the Last Son idea !!!
and i even loved the final page of Kon-El as ..... Superboy !!!
i thought that was such a great image/pin up by Chris !!!
Matthew.
[ November 13, 2003, 04:00 PM: Message edited by: the boy with UltraPowers ]
Posted by STU on :
quote:Originally posted by Portfolio Boy: I this page the foreshortening on Superboy bugs me, and the proportions on Vi are all wrong, her head is way too big for her body. It makes her look abount nine years old.
Maybe she shrank her body while keeping her head the same size. Or expanded her head while keeping her body the same. Posted by STU on :
quote:Originally posted by the boy with UltraPowers: and Sno Cone's colours were really bright and vibrant !!!
Mr. (or is that Ms.?) Cone's coloring has really grown in leaps and bounds lately.
Posted by Super Lad Kid on :
I think Batista's work is a great improvement over the fill-ins we had after Coipel's departure. A couple things about him bother me, though.
first - lips. It seems like too many characters have pursed lips like they're whistling something all of the time. Check out Cos on the secons "stargate" page or Kon on the following page for just a couple of examples. Also, many of the faces seem to be smirking at odd times. I noticed it quite a bit in Dream Crimes, but it seems to have improved.
second - perspective. Maybe it's just me, since I've never seen anyone else mention this. But group shots seem a bit awkward and flat with everyone appearing to be different sizes. The Universo-controlled Legion in Dream Crime part 4 comes to mind right away. I even had to do a double take this issue on the page where Kid Quantum's drinks fo the time-blip thing. It looked like a giant Jasmine towering over a miniature Cosmic Boy sitting at the table. But, again, maybe it's just me.
His Servants of Darkness designs are pretty awesome, though. I can't wait to see more of them.
Posted by Tromium Crystal on :
I liked it a lot, with only a few reservations.
The Best Things:
-- The double splash page of Darkseid and his superhero-mockeries. Darkseid looks like he's carved out of ancient rock, barely conscious but more monstrous than ever. Who's that black creature with the tail and the mouth in his stomach???
-- Cosmic Boy vs. Superboy. As irritating as he is, Superboy's wise-ass jerk routine played well against anal-retentive "Cee Bee". He's deliberately goading Rokk, and Rokk's temper is showing. That's a GOOD thing. At least its a sign of life in this long-dormant character.
-- Dark Kal-El. LOVED his reaction to Clone Boy's emblem, and Batista's vision of him.
-- Time anomalies. Deftly done, with Jazmin as logical first victim and Nura's chilling discovery. No point in planning tomorrow's menu, I guess.
-- Lyle and Brainy. Lyle gets to display his superior practical knowledge and insights into human nature. Brainy has a lot to learn from him.
-- Religious cults. The morally ambiguous "Catastrophist" cult is a great (original?) concept that's already begun to play into Darkseid's hand. That his evil can be fed by human martyrdom is a grotesque twist in light of current events. Plus, history-buff Rokk as a believer in "the Spirit of the Last Son" was surprising but completely in character. Glorious Godfrey coming next?
-- The "Costume". Kon is just begging for trouble. Wait till Rokk gets a load of it. Better yet, wait till Dark Kal-El gets a load of it.
-- So MANY Legionnaires! Great story tempo. Bastista + Wallace.
Ambivalent About:
-- Garth-in-Jan. At first, the idea of a dead man idling away his time watching holovision news struck me as absurd. I'd really hoped for a MUCH more dramatic follow-up (insanity, pyrotechnics, etc.) but, hey, it ain't my story. Seeing him in Jan's body still makes me queasy, but after closer reading I found I *did* appreciate the subtle touches of characterization in this scene, e.g., he and Imra trying but failing to connect. The internal monologue effectively conveyed emotion (equal measures of despair and cynicism) without the aid of facial expressions, and the unanswered question of WHY he's trapped in Jan's body looms even larger now. But all this dark contemplation is painful to read, so the sooner he's forced into action the better.
-- The dialogue. A reviewer at thefourthrail.com derided some of it as "faux-Buffy". Actually, I smiled at quips like "Switch to a power other than Ultra-sarcasm, Jo", but Thom's gushing fanboy act struck a false note and Kon's wisecracks are going to wear thin very soon. Lots of word balloons to count in this issue, though.
What Irked Me:
-- Human Ferro on the cover. The absence of Mekt (5-week gap). The forced idea of Superboy fandom in the 31st century. That's about it.
Posted by Galadhran on :
I figure... I have suspended disbelieve this far about a group of young kids fighting to save the universe some time in the future... I mean look at kids nowadays... they can't even save their breakfast (all due respect to Big Kids on here)
So I am gonna stretch it just a little further and not worry about their transuitstamajicky and just enjoy the story... technicalities bore me. Human drama is what I like And I like: 1. Sensor's new attitude and muscles 2. The unfolding perverse drama with Garth 3. Jaz and Rokk 4. The impending Time Trapper situation 5. Does Star Boy still have his power? 6. Is that Hawkgirl? I though it was Zauriel... It looks like the League from the time of WW3 which means it is our fallen angel, not Kendra.
What I don't like: 1. Vi and Tinya occupying space and doing nothing 2. Superboy *yawn* Stay in Titans (which by the way is a good read... especially the last few pages!! Woo hoo! 3. everyone has elongated faces.
[ November 14, 2003, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: Galadhran ]
Posted by MYG on :
I thought the art was pretty good. Being a long time legion fan, and having experienced the "original Darkness Saga" (not to mention numerous re boots), I wonder if this is the beginning of another great multi length tale, or ANOTHER re boot. I don't think this Legion fan can handle another one!...although that's what I said last time. It would be great if, for the 45th anniversary, we returned to the greatness of what the pre boot was...I know, ain't happening! A guy can always hope!
Long Live the Legion!!!
Posted by MLLASH on :
Nice consistency with Ferro's interest in fashion! Too bad we didn't get to see any of his romance with Val this issue, though!
I'm liking this arc a lot thus far!
Posted by Sanity or Madness? on :
quote:Originally posted by MLLASH: Too bad we didn't get to see any of his romance with Val this issue, though!
Just checking - where is this coming from? Ferro, quite literally, has no family or friends or anywhere to go outside the Legion. Just because he accepted Val's challenge/retort to his sarcastic remark to try and "find himself" (in true "New Age" fashion) doesn't mean there's any sort of "romance" at all. He didn't exactly have anywhere else to go after the team was disbanded anyway.
Posted by DrakeB3003 on :
quote:Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?:
quote:Originally posted by MLLASH: Too bad we didn't get to see any of his romance with Val this issue, though!
Just checking - where is this coming from?
I take it to be wishful thinking from a fanbase that probably feels underrepresented in the medium.
Posted by MLLASH on :
(And though it hasn't been proven to be the case yet, it certainly hasn't been disproven either!)
Maybe we'll get to see more of the Val/Andy romance next issue if Val will STOP letting Clone-El borrow his clothes! Andy's gonna get his feelings hurt if this continues!!
Posted by Kid Prime on :
The connection with Ferro's established fashion design hobby in this issue just hit me as well! That's pretty cool... I bet he's a big hit with the Athramites.
Posted by Sanity or Madness? on :
quote:Originally posted by Kid Prime: The connection with Ferro's established fashion design hobby in this issue just hit me as well! That's pretty cool... I bet he's a big hit with the Athramites.
I doubt it - they're probably more annoyed at his interference than anything else.
Posted by MLLASH on :
And let's face it-- Andy's not that original... his outfit for Superboy looks SO familiar...!
I bet Andy designed that hideous t-shirt Val loaned to Clone-El! Val's hoping it gets ruined in a battle, I bet, so he'll be off the hook!
Posted by Arachne on :
What I liked:
Darksied's apperance. Who's been taking pot shots at him, I wonder? The friction between Cos and Kon-el. (I havn't seen enough of the clone to be irritated by him, yet.) Vi speaks!!! I wasn't sure she still could. It's not enough, but it's a start. Kid Q's power problems. Lyle and Brainy finishing each other's sentences. How cute. The athramites are back! I really get a kick out of the little guys. Nice to see Ferro's still into fashion. Shikari's not in this issue. I was really getting anoyed by how much panel time she gets.
What I'm undecided on: Jarth. "I just don't get these..." I just don't get why Brainy's talking like that, but DnA have had a good handle on him from the start, so I'll write it off as a typo. I know Cos and Jaz have had five weeks to get romantic, but it doesn't seem that long to me. I would have liked to have seen it develop more.
What I didn't like: Vi's swearing again. It sort of makes sense in a fight, but we really need to see more of her character. No Gates. Posted by deanlegion on :
I did get a bit stuck on the detail inconsistencies in the art. They should just ALL have transuit armbands showing! I like how we Legion fans try to explain creator mistakes, with in-story logic.
The cover art had some mistakes. Cos should have fingerless gloves on. A couple of his fingernails were actually colored black. (It was the background showing through.) Why were Cos' utility belt packs brown and not grey? Superboy was in the Superman costume, but shouldn't have been, in that scene. Why was Cos spitting and Superboy bleeding? So weird. Ferro should have been colored all silver/grey. I'd have expected TnT to do a kewl effect to show his metallic state. Jeka's arm around the servant's neck wasn't colored right. Was TnT given too short a deadline? Sometimes there is no in-story explanation for these things, simply creator errors.
Batista is doing a great job overall, though. I note that Jeka's hair seems to be thinning. I wonder if this is intentional?
I noticed the lack of interaction between Jo and Tinya.
I was annoyed by Violet doing NOTHING!
I think Imra is being VERY nice to Garth. He is in a very awkward position, right now. I'm SURE something dramatic is going to happen...
Love that Jaz has these weird time blips! Can't wait to see what it is.
Brainy and Lyle are great together. I'm glad to see Lyle do anything at this point.
Jaz and Coz as a couple is nice, to me.
Nura's "there is no future" scene is classic, over the top, dramatic Dream Girl for ya! LLL!
Kon's "Talk to the Hand" shirt cracks me up. Out of all the shirts in all the universe, this is the one he gets. I like Lash's jokes about it.
LOVE the shot of Superboy in the Superman outfit!
This story arc makes being a Legion fan fun. Lots of stuff for us to play with.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Alright, I don't think anyone said this yet, but I think we've all missed something very important: THE TIME TRAPPER IS IN THIS ISSUE.
Check out the page where Jaz, Cos, Brainy, Imra, Lu and Lyle are all sitting around. There is a panel where KQ stops talking and Lu says "Uh...Kid?". In the backround of the very next panel, you can see the Time Trapper standing there looking at the Legionnaires. If you look at the previous two panels (where everyone is exactly in the same spot), he's not there, and now suddenly shows up during the time-blip. It's definately him, just look, hood and everything.
So maybe it's the Time Trapper that is the main villian of this whole arc! Who knows, but I'm positive he's in this issue!
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Oh, I really like the way Cos is getting all the spotlight on him all of a sudden! Especially the romance with Jazmin.
But... could this be because DnA have a Time Trapper story planned that he is a major part of? Since he was the Time Trapper in a previous continuity, and Jaz has time powers, could the coupling of these two be something DnA are doing on purpose to affect the Trapper.
With Kon, Clark (?) and the Cub all experiencing time-annonamlies (sp?), this is starting to get interesting...
Posted by Sanity or Madness? on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: Alright, I don't think anyone said this yet, but I think we've all missed something very important: THE TIME TRAPPER IS IN THIS ISSUE.
Check out the page where Jaz, Cos, Brainy, Imra, Lu and Lyle are all sitting around. There is a panel where KQ stops talking and Lu says "Uh...Kid?". In the backround of the very next panel, you can see the Time Trapper standing there looking at the Legionnaires. If you look at the previous two panels (where everyone is exactly in the same spot), he's not there, and now suddenly shows up during the time-blip. It's definately him, just look, hood and everything.
So maybe it's the Time Trapper that is the main villian of this whole arc! Who knows, but I'm positive he's in this issue!
Pushing things a bit for a faded-out character in the background with a hood (not a robe, a hood - notice the chest circle) - it may just be a Durlan or somesuch.
But, since you made me get the issue out to have a look at it, I noticed another odd thing on the same page - why did Triad look at Dreamer to say "uhhh... Kid?" (Nura looks back @ Lu too). It just seems odd - if you were trying to get someone's attention, would you look @ someone else while you were doing it?
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
It is a pretty odd sequence, isn't it? There is definately a few things going on here.
However, the pencillers specifically draw everything into the backround for a purpose (at least according to Neil Gaimain and Alan Moore, I guess), so I wonder why they'd draw a hooded figure into that panel when there is apparently some kind of time thing going on in the story and with Jaz's ambigious time powers. I have a feeling that the hooded guy is in there for a reason, even if its for me to get everyone to have to dig out their latest issue !
I just have the feeling that there is more going on than just Darkseid and the Superboy stories. Hopefully it's not just wishful thinking...
Posted by STU on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: Alright, I don't think anyone said this yet, but I think we've all missed something very important: THE TIME TRAPPER IS IN THIS ISSUE.
I dunno, Cobie... I thought that was just some random background person who had moved into the panel during the time KQ was "spacing out" -- I'm assuming there was a period of a couple of seconds where everyone else was going about their business and moving around, while KQ was just standing there with her mouth open.
If it is the Time Trapper, what's that weird circle on his/her chest?
EDITED TO ADD: Sorry, I read SoM's post only after I'd posted this!
[ November 16, 2003, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: STU ]
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
I noticed the change in background characters and found it odd myself, but I don't think there's sufficient evidence to assert that this is The Time Trapper.
However, I wouldn't at all be surprised if the Hooded One shows up before the end of the storyline. Here's a possible connection: The Blight supposedly made a deal with Entropy (aka The Time Trapper), the Blight used Stargates to travel, Darkseid's servants are currently investigating stargates for some unknown reason, the catastrophists want to revive Darkseid in order to cause some great catastrophe (and what catastrophe would be bigger than the End of Time?). A stretch, maybe, but we'll see...
Posted by Scottybones on :
Hey <cough> i have that same T-shirt. Hmmm..And the same haircut...maybe i have issues. And where are y'all getting the super cool icons...i want one...I want to look ah hot as MLLASH
Bones
Posted by MLLASH on :
There's tons of swell photomanips in the AVATARS section where you found your Crystal Kid avatar, Scotty, you just gotta keep looking.
Though I love this Rokk avatar, I'm about due to change back to one of my own pics....
You wanna have this Rokk avatar?
Posted by The Man From Cargg on :
quote:Originally posted by Cobalt Kid: Alright, I don't think anyone said this yet, but I think we've all missed something very important: THE TIME TRAPPER IS IN THIS ISSUE.
I don't think this observation is too far-fetched. Remember DnA hinted at an introduction of the Time Trapper at the end of the Computo arc - didn't Sharn Nux land at his feet or something? It's about time they followed that one up.
I MUCH prefer Kon-el in the tight jeans/black t with Superman symbol than the full Superboy outfit at the end. It looks kinda lame and dated to me - as if Tinya had started sporting bell-bottoms again.
I really enjoyed this issue. Lots of Legionnaire interaction. Minor quibbles as follows: Yes, Vi did get a few lines here and there but DnA still don't seem to have a grasp of her persona yet. It always seems like whatever she says could have been said just as easily by anyone else. Nothing distinctive that tells us this is formerly shy Vi talking. The Stargate/Spacegate thing was a little annoying because it seemed like a re-hash of the Kid Q/Ayla call me Live Wire/Spark thing. Okay you've re-made Sensor into a more interesting look - now for God's sake let her use her illusion powers. I'm bored with all of this tail-spanking. I don't know what is happening in the Secret Files issue but I hope it will address some of the happenings in the 5 weeks prior. We need to see the Jarth thing play out from the beginning. What was Ayla's reaction? Will he be overtly shunned by some legionnaires because he looks like the guy who killed Monstress and the former Live Wire? Kid Q had a special connection to Jan Arrah - how is she reacting to Jarth? Maybe Rewind Kid Cadet can show us what happened during those 5 weeks. I still feel that overall DnA are doing an interesting job on this book. But they really do focus on the big issues - world domination by "fill-in-the-blank" when what we really want to see is Triad's reaction to Ferro - are they friends again? Or more insight into the Dreamer/Star Boy relationship? Or does Invisible Kid have a sex life? And on and on. It's not enough to fit characterization in between major events. Well, not for me anyway.
Okay enough whining - we've got a book every 2 weeks for a while. Now is the perfect time to balance plot with characterization.
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by deanlegion: Love that Jaz has these weird time blips! Can't wait to see what it is.
Not just blips I think. I think so far they have been rewinds in her local vicinity.
Posted by jimgallagher on :
I agree with Cargg. I'm tired of Sensor using her tail instead of her powers. And her super strength didn't come with her new body, as D&A seem to be trying to imply. Remember how she snapped that armored tank in two with her old body? Just another example of their playing fast and loose with everyone's power levels that annoys me. If this keeps up, Proty will be using his super strength to kick Darkseid's ass.
Posted by Galadhran on :
Can anyone answer my questions?
Is that Zauriel or Hawkgirl corrupted? Does Thom still have problem with his powers?
And I do think it's the Time Trapper involved as I said in an earlier post: With what happened to Jaz AND also to Nura (no future)... think it's enough of a hint... SO Obvious it cannot be? Nah I think it's just DnA's style Posted by jimgallagher on :
quote:Originally posted by Galadhran: Can anyone answer my questions?
Is that Zauriel or Hawkgirl corrupted? Does Thom still have problem with his powers?
Nobody really knows. We're all just guessing.
And yes, Thom's still having trouble with his powers as far as we know.
Posted by Arachne on :
Do we know those characters come from the past? Could the "hawkgirl" be a Starhavenite?
Posted by Fat Cramer on :
Just read #25 and #26 together and thought they were just great. So much visual detail, a variety of action and character and characters, with a lot of the sub-plots being picked up.
Interesting call on the "Trapper", Cobalt. I'm going to go back over Dream Crime and look for him - there were a few background scenes there with different profiles.
Loved the clock on the Time Institute! Fantastic to see Brainy and Lyle working together - maybe Rond was just out getting coffee. But were they sneaking into the Institute to get past the crowd or were they doing this on the sly? There was nobody else around.
I thought I'd loathe Superboy, but this may work out. I could do without the old uniform, too - the black t-shirt seems better with his personality. Perhaps clothes will make the man, however - and he will become the noble, square-jawed hero.
The "Jarth" scenes were well handled, also - realistic, the way he was thinking; the mixed feelings, the retort about Imra having "free access" to his thoughts, his reaction to Superboy, his isolation, the confusion of how to deal with his situation.
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by Fat Cramer:
Loved the clock on the Time Institute!
I wonder if anyone knows how to read it?
Even Ferro is of the digital age.
Posted by C Wallace on :
quote:Originally posted by Galadhran: Can anyone answer my questions?
Is that Zauriel or Hawkgirl corrupted?
Hawkgirl!
Among the other servants of Darkseid are:
Orion, Lobo, Firestorm, Green Lantern, Big Barda, Martian Manhunter (true form), and Superman
[ November 23, 2003, 11:43 PM: Message edited by: C Wallace ]
Posted by saturnrings on :
Overall, I am pleased with part 2 more so than part 1. There appears to be a strong balance between art and storyline and most of it was believable. Several people have already pointed out the problems, so I will not repeat them.
What I liked about #26:
1-"Switch to a power other than ultra-sarcasm, Jo."
2-"We are "so" not covering ourselves with glory..." (I do not remember Vi being sarcastic; I hope this is a new aspect of her character. I'm sooo tired of the shy Vi routine.)
3-Coz has apparently become Kon-el's unwilling guide to the 31st century. Coz being a believer in the Spirit of the Last Son does not surprise me. The Legion was based on heroes of the past, including Superman, and Coz is a history buff. It's a lesson to us all: Our heroes are only human or sentient. Try to live up to the ideas they convey and do not make them all-knowing gods.
3-Garth is sort of back.
4-Coz and Jaz: We saw it coming; now it's here. Have to admit, Coz goes for quality-First Imra, now Jaz. Who's next?
5-Andrew not being timid, wonderful!
What I didn't like:
1-I'm extremely disturbed about the way everyone's reacting to Garth/Jan. Unfortunately, I'm afraid that DnA is on the money with the reaction.
What do you do with someone who does not fit but you can't kick out? You let him hang around but you avoid him whenever possible.
I must echo others on one point: How could Ayla not visit Garth more often? At least Imra, who should be more creeped out than anyone, is attempting to communicate with him. It was extremely painful to see the attempted conversation and hear Garth's thoughts. The worst part is he thought Imra faked the telepathic call, which she didn't. Even Coz,his buddy, has not tried to visit him more.
I hope we will have flashbacks either during or after this story arch so we can see everyone's reaction to Garth's return. I would like to see the other legionnaires show more compassion for Garth's plight.
2-I find it hard to believe that Brainy or Lyle has not cured Andy yet so he can change from iron to human without dying. They had 5 whole weeks!
Very impressed! Keep it coming, DnA!
Posted by STU on :
quote:Originally posted by C Wallace:
quote:Originally posted by Galadhran: Can anyone answer my questions?
Is that Zauriel or Hawkgirl corrupted?
Hawkgirl!
Among the other servants of Darkseid are:
Orion, Firestorm, Green Lantern, Big Barda, Martian Manhunter (true form), and Superman
Thanks for clearing this up! I was wondering who that "Alien"-looking servant was -- the shape of his head should have tipped me off to it being Martian Manhunter...
Posted by STU on :
That was a nice analysis of the issue, saturnrings -- I pretty much agreed all down the list.
quote:Originally posted by saturnrings: I must echo others on one point: How could Ayla not visit Garth more often? ... Even Coz,his buddy, has not tried to visit him more.
The absolute worst, though, is the fact that the only person who'll talk to him is Lori Morning, and she just won't leave him the hell alone! Posted by MYG on :
I loved this issue too and the art was great. I would love to see a move to more individuality in the costumes worn. I don't think Legionnaires need a big giant 'L' belt buckle to identify them as such. Tinya and Tasmia don't wear them. I think it somehow takes away from the costumes. Those utlity belts need to be toned down a bit, because they appear to be large and cumbersome.
Posted by C Wallace on :
quote:Originally posted by MYG: I loved this issue too and the art was great. I would love to see a move to more individuality in the costumes worn. I don't think Legionnaires need a big giant 'L' belt buckle to identify them as such. Tinya and Tasmia don't wear them. I think it somehow takes away from the costumes. Those utlity belts need to be toned down a bit, because they appear to be large and cumbersome.
Well, I would have to disagree there, the "L" buckles are the ONLY team insignia they wear that are openly visible. Yes, they have their rings too but the buckles are clearly worn as an identifying emblem Without it there is nothing on them to suggest they are a Legionnaire.
I was toying with some Legion redesigns myself, maybe I'll post a few of them here sometime.
Posted by Sanity or Madness? on :
quote:Originally posted by C Wallace: Well, I would have to disagree there, the "L" buckles are the ONLY team insignia they wear that are openly visible. Yes, they have their rings too but the buckles are clearly worn as an identifying emblem Without it there is nothing on them to suggest they are a Legionnaire.
And while we're on the subject - any way you can talk Chris into drawing Tinya with a full stripe (& belt, FTM) on her costume, rather than the mini "point at her waist" version? Please .
Posted by Doctor One on :
quote:Originally posted by C Wallace: I was toying with some Legion redesigns myself, maybe I'll post a few of them here sometime. [/QB]
Great! Please do, I'm sure you'll get lots of feedback.
Juan
Posted by DrakeB3003 on :
quote:Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?: Agreed - they aren't obtrusive, IMO, and are a nice touch ... And while we're on the subject - any way you can talk Chris into drawing Tinya with a full stripe (& belt, FTM) on her costume, rather than the mini "point at her waist" version?
I used to prefer the full stripe on Tinya, but I've gotten used to the "stripped down", no belt, point at her waist version of her costume. It works with the simplicity of her costume which emphasizes her form and all that ghostly white.
Btw, I like the L* belt even though two of my fav Legionnaire costumes are Apparition and Wildfire, neither of whom wear them.
Posted by C Wallace on :
quote: Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?: And while we're on the subject - any way you can talk Chris into drawing Tinya with a full stripe (& belt, FTM) on her costume, rather than the mini "point at her waist" version? Please .
Heh, nope, its artistic interpretation, and thats how Chris draws her
Personally I like more black on here costume as a general design element, however, I have to agree, I think more white works better with the character's name.
[ November 25, 2003, 02:13 AM: Message edited by: C Wallace ]
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