quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: We don't yet know the point of departure, but there definitely is one. The original Crisis would be my guess.
We do know that Val died and one of Lu's bodies died and that both somehow were brought back to life, only to die again in COUNTDOWN.
Actually, if Superman's connection to the Legion has been restored, there's no need to assume that Lu's 2nd body ever died. If you take away the need for the Pocket Universe to explain how the Legion interacted with "Superboy," then you no longer have the need for the entire conspiracy plotline agains the Time Trapper. Mon-El might not have sustained the terrible injuries he got during that battle with the Time Trapper either (the Action Legion Shadow Lass doesn't have the marriage/finger amputation that she did when Mon-El appeared to be on his death bed.) My feeling is that this Legion's timeline really splits from the original about that time.
It's all a bit wonky though because the Action Legion behaves as though they hadn't seen Clark in a long time (and vice versa) but Superboy (and Supergirl for that matter) contributed significantly to the fight against Darkseid during the Great Darkness. I really don't see much hope in trying to pin it down to specifically. I'm just on for the ride.
From: Douglasville, GA | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Omni Craig: Since it's been spoiled that Garth will be in the 21st century next issue (#864), I wonder if they'll show him interacting with Starman at all? If you traveled 1000 years to visit a friend, wouldn't you look up your other bud who's just down the block?
Would LL necessarily know that Starman is in the neighborhood? I've completely lost track of which legion is which but I believe it is L. LAD going back in time and I don't recall if he's been there recently and knows about Starman's role here at all.
And now for the obigatory...
TTSMMHH.
time travel stories make my head hurt.
From: East Toledo | Registered: Jul 2003
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Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
posted
I think it's pretty clear that there's no sense in looking for a clear "point of departure" of this Legion from the pre-Zero Hour team. Whatever changes have been made have been made to them throughout their history. The only sense in which they're THE original Legion is basically the same sense in which the current Superman is THE pre-Crisis Superman, despite the fact that the vast majority of pre-Crisis Superman stories either didn't happen or happened in a radically altered form.
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I think it was Lu's body which was killed by Computo in ADVENTURE that was brought back. So, if she reappears in ACTION or THREE WORLDS, she'll still be Duo Damsel.
From: Knoxville, TN | Registered: Jul 2003
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It's all a bit wonky though because the Action Legion behaves as though they hadn't seen Clark in a long time (and vice versa) but Superboy (and Supergirl for that matter) contributed significantly to the fight against Darkseid during the Great Darkness.
Yeah but they aren't seeing Superboy, they are seeing Superman...a well established Superman.
He saw them during the crisis as well...but again, that was a Superman well established in his career...and they really didn't interact much with each other...
For Superman, it had been a long time since he saw them in more than passing...even since the Crisis
For this Legion...it hasn't been as long since they saw him IMO. Remember, there is time travel involved, and the Legion can pretty much choose when and where during Superman's career to interact. While the Legion and Superboy seemed to be running on paralell time line exactly a thousand years apart, it was always much more dicey with Superman.
The impression I get is that the Legion pariticapted in the COIE much more recently than Superman, at least from their POV it was more recent.
The main reason he was such a sight for sore eyes to them was because the 31st century had undergone such radical changes.
As for the demarcation point, it's pretty obvious that most everything from the Pocket Universe Story and after has been eliminated from the continuity. That makes total sense if the desire was to bring back the original Legion.
It does not make much sense to bring back anything after the Pocket Universe and especially the 5YG Legion if you want to bring back the original Legion.
Reason being, to the 5YG Legion, Superman was never a member as a kid. He was a totally different character. There would be next to no connection between that Legion and Superman...and there certainly wouldn't be anything to fondly reminisce about.
It would make little or no sense to bring them back in Action Comics and with Superman.
IMO, it's only confusing if you consider the 5YG Legion to be an extension of the original Legion. Which, since the 5YG Legion had a near totally different inspiration, continuity, greatest Legionaire etc. it's a leap to make that coclusion, it always was.
Similar arguments could be made for the end of the Levitz run as well, but bringing that era of the Legion back(and calling it the original) would make much more sense than the 5YG Legion.
Superman was jut another ancient Superhero to the 5YG Legion, there was nothing unsually special about him to them(beyond his rep as the greatest Superhero ever) or them to him..
I guess what I am saying is, Superman and the 5YG Legion wouldn't have much to talk about....they wouldn't be old friends, as would definitely be the case with the original Legion.
[ April 07, 2008, 01:48 AM: Message edited by: Superboy ]
Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Set: The tale does get props for not killing anyone.
WHAT?! They killed Double-Header! That's two people buddy! Double-Header fans unite! Oh wait...he's the only character that I've never seen a fan for. I mean sure he may have casual fans but is he anyone's favorite character?
I'm just messing. That was the safest character to kill for sure.
From: Tampa | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
I think Geoff did mention though that a few years did go by between Crisis and now. It would be nice to see a Secret Files showing what transpired in the meantime.
I don't see any reason why it can't be as close as the post crisis to magic wars stuff as possible. It would take out the power behind the Trapper battle in #50 but I have the original story.
From: Tampa | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Hooray for finally having an internet connection stable enough to be worth attempting a post!
Hooray for this issue; I enjoyed every drop. Brainy, Yera, and Gim's interaction was an unexpected treat.
And hooray for Superman and the Legion to be connected again and in such a way that they both inspire each other.
I do still need to see a healthy Element Lad with a firm future with the team before this all has my full seal of approval, but it's still providing hope.
From: Portland, Oregon | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Ultra Jorge: I don't see any reason why it can't be as close as the post crisis to magic wars stuff as possible. It would take out the power behind the Trapper battle in #50 but I have the original story.
I seriously hope he doesn't do that...I like Mon-El alive, not dead. I like Wildfife being back in the Legion. I don't want them removed again. I mean...they just brought them back.
Mon El died in the Magic Wars, Wildfire went poof right before the Magic Wars...
The Emerald Empress is dead...
I am sure I am forgetting some stuff, but that's why I don't want to see that stuff included.
Plus to put that stuff in this continuity, you have to do another retcon, that will no doubt, not make any sense to anyone a few months after it is done, and doing that kind of retcon is what messed up the Legion in the first place and put us on the path to where we are now.
Registered: Mar 2006
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Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
posted
quote:Originally posted by Superboy: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Ultra Jorge: [qb] Plus to put that stuff in this continuity, you have to do another retcon, that will no doubt, not make any sense to anyone a few months after it is done, and doing that kind of retcon is what messed up the Legion in the first place and put us on the path to where we are now.
Given that they're already having to do a substantial amount of retconning just to fit New Earth Superman into Earth-1 Superman's place, I don't see that it would require that much more retconning to fit the rest of the stuff from Crisis to Magic Wars in.
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Eryk Dumaka Ester: ]Given that they're already having to do a substantial amount of retconning just to fit New Earth Superman into Earth-1 Superman's place, I don't see that it would require that much more retconning to fit the rest of the stuff from Crisis to Magic Wars in.
I do...it sounds simple but once you start attempting it, it gets more and more complex.
For one thing...New Earth Suprman is being put into stories Superman was always a part of till he was retconned out.
If you try to put him in the Magic Wars you are putting him into continuity that he was never a part of...Post Crisis. A continuity that at least in part was built on the fact that Superman wasn't part of the Legion and had stories predicated on that fact.
I actually think it would be easier to retcon Superman into the 5YG or Zero Hour Legions than it would be to retcon him into the Post Crisis part of the Levitz Legion.
The main thing being is what happened in the Time Trapper story?
I mean that is a huge deal there as it eventually lead to the Death of a Legionaire.
IMO, if you want to retcon the Magic Wars...
You need to leave the Pocket Universe Superboy Story intact...as in the Time Trapper tricked them into thinking he was their Superboy.
As for me...I don't want that stuff in the continuity...because I like Mon-El and Wildfire, and the Emerald Empress.
And I haven't seen anything yet that definitively precludes Pre Crisis stories from occurring...
Maybe the Lana Lang Insect Queen stuff...but even that's not definitive.
Could you list some examples?
It hasn't been proven SuperGirl wasn't a part of this Legion...
And Superman, per his new origin, did have a career as Superboy(although it was much more covert), we just haven't seen it yet due to the ongoing litigation between DC and the Siegel family.
I haven't seen anything definitive yet...and I think Johns has purposely been trying to not be definitive yet...
Which is smart, trying to be definitive when you don't have a grasp of the impact on the continuity is what gets you the Post Crisis Legions.
Me? The last 3rd of the Baxter Run wasn't the Legion to me...it was a Legion gutted and ruined by DC Editorial Policy and John Byrne, with Paul Levitz trying to put the pieces back together in what was largely a killing spree at the Universal Level...and I'm glad that so far it seems Johns isn't going to pick up where that one left off.
I am glad he is picking up the original Legion...when it was still the original Legion, and not the Post Crisis Legion which wasn't the original Legion.
This current Action Legion and Superman? They may not be the originals...just far closer than anything else, including the end of the Levitz run...and that's a good thing, because that Legion was a good thing.
[ April 09, 2008, 03:31 AM: Message edited by: Superboy ]
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
And one other thing...while everyone is cringing about what Johns might do to the Legionaires...Paul Levitz gets a free pass for killing a ton of Legionaires and Villians, and his replacement characters weren't near as memorable as the ones he took away. That was part of what I didn't like about his run.
Shooter >>>>>> Levitz when it comes to creating memorable Legionaires and Villians.
Levitz? He was good at doing stuff with pre existing characters and plot threads...and creating new characters was definitely his weak point as a writer....outside of an interesting supporting character or two.
The most memorable all new super character created in his run was Quislet IMO...
Which incidentally...if the Magic Wars is in continuity Quislet likely won't be around either, and I'm hoping he will be.
[ April 09, 2008, 03:41 AM: Message edited by: Superboy ]
Registered: Mar 2006
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