quote:Originally posted by Dain: First of all, I didn't attack anyone. Each person is entitled to their opinions and my reply was impersonal. What I consider an attack or harassment is the fact that it seems increasingly difficult to post anything positive about the Legion in Action here in Legion World (and in a couple of other forums) and have a discussion about it with others who like it, because some people seem never to miss a chance to curse, bash, tear it apart and generally make things miserable for others.
You are partly right about the "if you can't be happy with something 'new' you must be wrong" thing but it doesn't apply either to me personally or to any of my posts. I suppose it could apply to people who only like the 3boot Legion (once again, I read every Legion comic that comes out. have never dropped it and never will)who seem to use it all the time on those fans who just don't like the 3boot.
I don't doubt it's subjective - and for the record I don't give advice - but I DO get the feeling that some people confuse "subjective" with "arbitrary" when they bash Frank's art or John's writing. It's one thing to not like his art style and another thing to use the "bulging" eyes as proof of how "ugly" his art, in general, is. Please don't use the "different opinion than mine" thing because I've always respected everyone's opinion here and if I have nothing good to say about an artist I usually say nothing. The same goes when people talk about something I hate about the Legion's history. I don't go around "raining in their parades" every chance I get. It's one thing to state an opinion once or twice and another thing to make it a point to suck the enthusiasm of others. We're supposed to have fun with the Legion, we're here because we love the Legion.
And my point stands: Look at the whole art in each issue and get over the bulging eyes thing. I'm sorry but it's not an opinion I can respect when someone focuses on one detail in a few panels and bases his/her opinion only on that. It is too biased, for lack of a better word, and biases aren't even valid subjective opinions.
Matthew E. and I argued a few weeks ago about the "originality" of the Legion in Action and my opinion was different than his, but he really defended his position and I enjoyed our discussion regardless of his having "a different opinion than mine".
And yes! People who got to know the Legion through the 3boot may not like the one in Action and people who first read an older Legion version may not like the 3boot or the Legion in Action or whatever. There are even new fans who never liked the 3boot and love the Legion in Action (stranger things have happened!) There's no question about each one having the right to have his/her favorite Legion but chances are they are going to be disappointed by a Legion version that's too different to the one they like.
Finally, I thought it was clear in my last post that it's not constructive criticism that I mind, it's kneejerk negative reactions so what I said in my post didn't necessarily apply to everyone.
Well said, Dain!
I truly wonder why those with such narrow limitations on what Legion can be bother to read anything new/different at all.
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada | Registered: Dec 2003
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I hope you're not angered Dain. It's an open discussion and everybody's opinions are welcome. A few mention some things they don't like (and a few others chime in) and others state their love for the new story (and others chime in here too) that's part of the fun of these threads. I like it that there are so many well versed fans who want to express themselves and state their wishes and desires for the characters we've loved so long. For instance, I don't really like the new Dawnstar costume but I do like it that her character has grown from arrogance to confidence, a natural extension of the storylines of the 80's Legion.
I don't mean to have come off as a naysayer, actually my biggest problem is that Action only comes out once a month and I'm dying to read the next installment. Afterall, isn't that the aim of serialized stories?
From: Smallville Sector : Greater Metropolis | Registered: Jun 2004
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So apart from all the arguing that seems to have happened here while I was on my winter vacation, my comment about the new Action:
Loved the return of Shady and especially of Lydda and Brek. Oh I loved that. Brek having lost an arm but not his spirit - very good, I like reading stuff like that.
I did not like this issue as much as the one before, which had even more drama (Legionnaires captured in glass prisons, reminds me so much of an old Captain Future episode but I digress...), but I thought the story evolved well enough to keep me excited about it. Only thing that was "too quick" for me was the sudden jump from the prison to the underground headquarters. Had to read those pages three times and still was not sure how exactly they had gotten there...
As I am very familiar with Gary Franks art (read his Supergirl, read his Midnight Nation, read his Supreme Power and liked all of it), I can't see anything negative in his art. I can see that some fans might not like his art cause of the bulging eyes, but that's simply a matter of taste. I for my part never cared for Curt Swans art, But I would never say anything negative about his merits for the Legion.
So all in all I am still very excited about this run, it is currently my number one comic to read as soon as I get home with my monthly dose. Was not that excited about the Legion since I started collecting the US originals way back in 1994...
From: Bamberg, Germany | Registered: Feb 2007
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I agree with CK on several points: the transition to the HQ was too quick and was less-than-well-paced (this is the closest thing to a negative that I've had towards this story thus far), and the Franks/Swan comparison. Swan is old-school and stiff, but competent; I've never been excited by his work, but I've never put any Swan fans down, nor do I feel the need to. I'll take Franks over any number of artists (including Swan), and while his eyes are an odd quirk, they are part of his style, and it generally works.
The Action run remains, to me, the most exciting Legion story at least since Robotica, if not since Conspiracy.
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada | Registered: Dec 2003
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What's going on here? Where are all the tears for Double-Header?!?
Long-time, ultra-obscure, quirky character - who was a SUB to boot - is heavily implied to be dead in this issue. And no one around here raises an eyebrow?
This is still Legion World right?!?
I enjoyed this issue very much. I agree with those who say there seems to be a disconnect between this Legion and the Lightning Saga Legion, and also with the Crisis-era Legion, but for me that's not a problem. I'm just enjoying the story for what it is.
I enjoyed seeing the team come together a bit more this issue and love that Lydda seems to be included as a fully-fledged Legionnaire now. Brek definitely got a great intro (Johns must have a soft spot for this character) but I'm not so keen on the ice-arm or the costume. Though I liked everyone else's - including Lydda and Tasmia.
One thing I definitely am appreciating in this story though is Collosal Boy's prominent place in it. He is so normally side-lined during major Legion tales so it's great seeing that change here. And he had a great short and sweet line with "Revolution" too. I do wonder if it's perhaps being hinted that Yera has been killed off though? Just a feeling I'm getting. I wouldn't have much of a problem with it if so actually as I always felt she seemed to drag him down a bit somehow.
Anyway, looking forward to the next installment.
From: Australia | Registered: Dec 2003
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I liked Polar Boy's costume but hated Night Girl's. Her hairdo looks tired and dated too. Shady's is way too skimpy. How's she supposed to hop around fighting bad guys if she's always worried about her boobs popping out of her "costume"? Colossal Boy's is okay, but has too many extraneous details to stand out. Why does Dawnstar wear a headband if it doesn't bind her hair? In fact, how does it stay on at all? Is it a tiara like Wonder Woman's? That doesn't seem to fit the character. I never liked this character, but I do like that the artist is trying to draw her with native American features and not as "generic pretty girl with red skin" as many other aritsts have done.
I'm disappointed with the "Justice League's" costumes overall. They're very gray and colorless except for Radiation Roy's and his armor is somewhat ludicrously reminiscent of Fortress Lad's. They even gave Spider Girl gray hair instead of her trademarked red. And why does Storm Boy keep hiding in the background? He's the most interesting to me, and gets the least screen time. Tusker? Puh-lease. Why dig this goon out of mothballs? If his skeleton is invulnerable how did his tusk get broken? The original Tusker could grow his tusks out at will, so why doesn't he just regrow it? And when is Golden Boy going to turn somebody into gold instead of just hitting them with his metal fists?
I'm pretty happy with the art and story overall though. Can't wait to see where it's going.
-------------------- Buy my new graphic novel! http://www.dodeka12.com
From: Champaign, IL | Registered: Jul 2003
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Really good points about the JLA of 3008 Jim. The way Storm Boy is portrayed, in both mannerism and appearnace would make me think he was a vampire or goth. He's always skulking around in the shadows and wearing dark clothes. Are they trying to infer some kind of moodiness (dark clouds on the horizon kind of thing)?
And with Spider Girl's hair, maybe she's a bit prematurely grey now, since some time has passed?
I'm really looking forward to the Subs vs the Rejects, since they are basically two sides of the same coin. All were told "No" by the Legion, yet some of them strove to become heroes anyway!
-------------------- Craig C.
- Time travel stories are told in chronillogical order.
From: Santa Ana, CA | Registered: Jul 2003
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Oh, yeah, re Polar Boy's arm. I like that he can use his power so creatively now, but don't see how he could use it as a functioning limb. For instance, I don't see how he could wiggle his fingers or make a fist as his ice has never been organic or under his mental control before to my knowledge. And why didn't he just wear the flight ring on his real hand?
-------------------- Buy my new graphic novel! http://www.dodeka12.com
From: Champaign, IL | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Blacula: What's going on here? Where are all the tears for Double-Header?!?
Long-time, ultra-obscure, quirky character - who was a SUB to boot - is heavily implied to be dead in this issue. And no one around here raises an eyebrow?
This is still Legion World right?!?
Actually wasn't he a Substitute Substitute?
-------------------- Five billion years from now the Sun will go nova and obliterate the Earth. Don't sweat the small stuff!
From: Boston | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote:Originally posted by jimgallagher: Oh, yeah, re Polar Boy's arm. I like that he can use his power so creatively now, but don't see how he could use it as a functioning limb. For instance, I don't see how he could wiggle his fingers or make a fist as his ice has never been organic or under his mental control before to my knowledge. And why didn't he just wear the flight ring on his real hand?
The way I figured it, he's projecting a field of cold that's exactly the shape of the missing arm, and changes shape to match how he wants the arm to move. The field of cold constantly gains and sheds ice molecules to do this. As for the flight ring, I think he put it on that arm to be a badass. I haven't done Polar Boy in my 'The Legionnaires' articles on Legion Abstract yet, but it's coming, and this is entirely consistent with his character.
Edited to add: as for Double-Header, yes, I think he was part of the Legion Auxiliary, as per that issue of DC Comics Presents with Ambush Bug.
Set
There's not a word yet, for old friends who've just met.
posted
The ice arm doesn't bug me that much, since I've grown used to Marvel's Iceman doing the same thing. Apparently it's 'flexible ice,' which makes at least as much sense as flexible metal people (like Ferro Lad or Colossus) and flexible rock people (like Blok or, uh, some other person made of rock).
Have a lot of posts been cut from this thread? I'm seeing responses to personal attacks, but no personal attacks...
Until Shooter and Manapul's first issue came out, the Action comic run was my favorite Legion arc since the JLA Lightning Saga thing.
I loved Frank's art back in Midnight Nation and Supreme Power, I'm just not feeling it here. I certainly don't *hate* it, and there have certainly been a few Legion artists whose work on the Legion I've disliked quite a lot.
The story has some 'huh?' moments so far, such as Brainy sending for Superman against the wishes of the other Legionnaires, and then turning out to be the dictator of Colu and the other Legionnaires suddenly say that going there is a bad idea... But it's got a dreamlike quality, and I suspect that's deliberate.
The 'sudden transition' to the Legion underground railroad thing seems very much like a clue to me that things are not as they seem. It *could* be a jarring page layout failure, but I suspect it's a hint that somethings not right. I don't think Kal-El is going to wake up in the shower and it all have been a dream, but I do think that something is going on to change things *during the story.* Brainy was considered by the Legionnaires to be one of them at the beginning, and is now something completely different. I'm telling myself that this isn't sloppy writing, but it's a sign of things having changed, for the worse, between Superman being pulled into the future and the latest issue.
Is 'future history' unravelling?
Is this just some ill-conceived Action arc that happens to include the Legion (or, *a* Legion), or is it something more relevant, a potential launching point for new continuity, or a tying together of older continuities, timed for the anniversary relaunch?
Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by jimgallagher: Oh, yeah, re Polar Boy's arm. I like that he can use his power so creatively now, but don't see how he could use it as a functioning limb. For instance, I don't see how he could wiggle his fingers or make a fist as his ice has never been organic or under his mental control before to my knowledge. And why didn't he just wear the flight ring on his real hand?
He couldn't put it on his one remaining hand because he has no right hand to put it on the left hand. Try to put on a ring on your left hand with your left hand. It's tough Well, it's possible, but it's tough
From: Bamberg, Germany | Registered: Feb 2007
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