Set
There's not a word yet, for old friends who've just met.
posted
quote:Originally posted by cleome: Well, a lot of characters were rebooted / revamped. I don't have a problem with that so long as it's well done.
I never cared for Esper Lass, being more fond of the better interpretations of Saturn Queen / Eve Aries. (The new Lo3W version, who seems to be an awestruck Superboy-Prime groupie, but otherwise looks sedated? Not doing it for me.)
Jeyra Entin was, IMO, a better character than Esper Lass. (And it's not every day I have something nice to say about Waid's contributions to the Legionverse.)
quote: It would be nice to see more villainesses (and heroines, for that matter) who actually get to punch and hit stuff. But there's still a lot of retrograde thinking that if females punch and hit, they aren't "feminine." Whatever that really means. Hence the tradition of mental powers as a way for females to be "girly" and still powerful.
I call this 'Counselor Troi syndrome.' The guys are Klingons, men of action and super-strong androids. The gals are a doctor and an empathic counselor who wears frilly dresses on the bridge (and Tasha, who broke that stereotype, but died so fast that it didn't get far.
When several of the Legion ladies have to carry guns (Atom Girl, recently Saturn Girl) or learn martial arts (Shadow Lass, Triplicate Girl, Atom Girl) to 'contribute' as much as male characters like Ultra Boy, Star Boy, Chameleon Boy and Colossal Boy are contributing *without* guns or intensive combat training, it get's on my nerves a bit.
(Obviously, the Legion has some great exceptions as well. Invisible Kid is the 'helpless female' of the Legion, and Brainy does the inconceivable and deals with problems by sealing himself up in a protective cocoon and thinking them to death.)
Back in the 'female heavy hitters' thread, there were quite a few suggestions for how to bring some oomph back to the 'gentler sex.' Not just Supergirl / Andromeda clones either, as characters like the White Witch, Kid Quantum II or Lightning Lass can dish out the firepower.
Registered: Aug 2006
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cleome46
or you can do the confusion 'til your head falls off
posted
Set:
(snip)
quote:I call this 'Counselor Troi syndrome.' The guys are Klingons, men of action and super-strong androids. The gals are a doctor and an empathic counselor who wears frilly dresses on the bridge (and Tasha, who broke that stereotype, but died so fast that it didn't get far.
Preach it, Brother.
(How many seasons did it take before Troi finally wore a regular uniform ? Feh.)
The only way females will get more worthwhile page and/or screen-time is if
A) There's more emphasis on ES-type stuff involving infiltration and undermining or
B) Creative teams get over the long-outdated taboo against women using their fists. To read the history of Supergirl is to see how often they undermine it when they DO use it. She's always giggly, boy-crazy, conflicted. Then we're all supposed to get misty-eyed when she sacrifices all for her cousin. (And I still hate that stupid story twenty years later. I don't care how well-drawn it was. Pppphhht.)
-------------------- Hey, Kids! My "Cranky and Kitschy" collage art is now viewable on flickr. Drop by and tell me that I sent you.
From: Vanity, OR | Registered: Dec 2008
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Set
There's not a word yet, for old friends who've just met.
posted
quote:Originally posted by cleome: A) There's more emphasis on ES-type stuff involving infiltration and undermining or
That would be neat, to see some seriously pro-active Espionage Squad stuff. Ultra Boy and Lightning Lad and whomever can be out there blasting stuff and taking names, while the more subtle Legionnaires like Phantom Girl, Atom Girl, Invisible Kid and Chamelon are getting the actual mission done, under cover of all the flash and furor of their 'big guns' providing a distraction for their more surgical work.
quote: B) Creative teams get over the long-outdated taboo against women using their fists. To read the history of Supergirl is to see how often they undermine it when they DO use it. She's always giggly, boy-crazy, conflicted. Then we're all supposed to get misty-eyed when she sacrifices all for her cousin. (And I still hate that stupid story twenty years later. I don't care how well-drawn it was. Pppphhht.)
Anytime a secondary character ends up being sacrificed (or stuffed into a refrigerator, or whatever) to advance the plot of another character, it bugs me.
It doesn't have to be all female characters getting killed off to advance their boyfriends / husbands stories (although that's freakishly common. The heroes wife dies and he turns into Mad Max / the Punisher / etc.). In Buffy, various male characters would get kidnapped, beaten up, maimed / mutilated or even killed, and it was always done so that we could get a reaction shot of Buffy looking sad and / or pissed-off. That bugs me no matter which way it goes.
No Cordelia, the lesson to take away from running over that girl on her bike is *not* what an awful traumatic experience it was for *you.*
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
Heck, i'd much rather be hit by a man than a woman any day. Guys are used to sluggin' each other. But the women i know have these tiny little hands and because i'm big, they have noooo problem drivin' it home. Compact about 800lbs/per square into the size of a handball. That crap hurts, lemme tell ya.
And my sister. She had this way of smackin' me with a limber hand that stung like all getout. You could hear the skin sizzle when she did that.
So, you wanna show women smackin each other, go to it. I prefer less brutality, so i'll stick with watchin guys pummel each other in the ring,
-------------------- Damn you, you kids! Get off my lawn or I'm callin' tha cops!
quote:Originally posted by Wonder Lad: ...I think it would be wise to have 2 separate series (hell, 3 series would work for me). First, you have the "core" series which is the current telling of Legion tales with the full cast of charaters. Second would be their run in Adventure which (at least IMO) should be a retelling of the Legion's history as it now fits into current DCU continuity. Let's have the new Adventure start out roughly at where the original Adventure #300 started up. You've got most of the long-established characters available. Then you go forward in something akin to an extended "Year 3" or whatever, filling in the blanks and smoothing over the roughness and sillyness of the silver age. Think of it as a futuristic 'All Star Squadron' where that series (one of my all-time favs, btw) took established Golden Aged stories & characters and worked their stories in and around them, often fleshing out what had already been established. Essentially, the two series would cover where they are now and how they got there...
That's what they planned to do with the Legionnaires title all those years ago, and decided against at the last minute. It probably would have worked better than the SW6 scenario, which I think was the final nail in the coffin for the TMK era, even though it took a few years for the body to stop twitching.
If they do somehow go with a "young Legion" book, I hope they play up the action and romance aspects and keep the trauma and and teen angst to a minimum.
From: Douglasville, GA | Registered: Jul 2003
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cleome46
or you can do the confusion 'til your head falls off
posted
Originally posted by Set:
quote:That would be neat, to see some seriously pro-active Espionage Squad stuff. Ultra Boy and Lightning Lad and whomever can be out there blasting stuff and taking names, while the more subtle Legionnaires like Phantom Girl, Atom Girl, Invisible Kid and Chameleon are getting the actual mission done, under cover of all the flash and furor of their 'big guns' providing a distraction for their more surgical work.
Oh, Hell YES. I forget which Legion site it was that had the group divided along the lines of:
"Who can pick up a mountain and move it to another planet ?"
"Who can make everyone in the solar system not notice that somebody's picking up a mountain and moving it to another planet ?" [grin]
quote:Anytime a secondary character ends up being sacrificed (or stuffed into a refrigerator, or whatever) to advance the plot of another character, it bugs me.
Well, it's supposed to give the story depth, I suppose. Look at us ! We're playing for real here. The problem being that it's not the only way to be "real," but writers fall back on it because it's the most expected way to be effective. I mean, I always liked the retooling of Projectra during Levitz' run, but I'm still not sure that the only way he could have overhauled the character was by gruesomely offing her spouse.
quote:It doesn't have to be all female characters getting killed off to advance their boyfriends / husbands stories (although that's freakishly common. The heroes wife dies and he turns into Mad Max / the Punisher / etc).
[rolleyes] Don't forget all the D*sn*y heroes/heroines bereft of Mommies, as well.
quote:In Buffy, various male characters would get kidnapped, beaten up, maimed / mutilated or even killed, and it was always done so that we could get a reaction shot of Buffy looking sad and / or pissed-off. That bugs me no matter which way it goes...(snip)
I always feel guilty for not liking that show more. I suppose writers are in a bind because if a character in an adventure story is doing dangerous things, then eventually somebody's going to get hurt or killed. If it's always "red shirts" that these things happen to, nobody feels an emotional investment and the injury/death has no meaning. OTOH, yes: It's too easy to fall into the trap of doing something horrible to one character just so another can experience "growthfulness."
Aside from the overall squick feeling I get from the woman-in-'fridge trope, I'd add that it invites the reader/viewer to consider one kind of motivation more "emotional" (and more valuable) than another;When I'm not sure that should be the case. Is it really more worthy to value the loss of your close friend over the loss of a total stranger ? Maybe the really heroic soul is the one who joined up and stays strictly out of feeling a sense of duty;The one who refuses to differentiate between their own loved ones and the loved ones of that anonymous neighbor across the street.
-------------------- Hey, Kids! My "Cranky and Kitschy" collage art is now viewable on flickr. Drop by and tell me that I sent you.
From: Vanity, OR | Registered: Dec 2008
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quote:Originally posted by rickshaw1: Heck, i'd much rather be hit by a man than a woman any day. Guys are used to sluggin' each other. But the women i know have these tiny little hands and because i'm big, they have noooo problem drivin' it home. Compact about 800lbs/per square into the size of a handball. That crap hurts, lemme tell ya.
And my sister. She had this way of smackin' me with a limber hand that stung like all getout. You could hear the skin sizzle when she did that.
So, you wanna show women smackin each other, go to it. I prefer less brutality, so i'll stick with watchin guys pummel each other in the ring,
So true. I've stood between male students about to go at it, that outweighed me 50 pounds each but today saw one girl pounding anothers head into the ground.
If they're going to show the women fighting it best be realistic. I've yet to see one that didn't involve hair pulling, scratching and booby punches.
I however disagree with the implication empathic roles and powers are less than brutal ones. It's the reserved use of them that's the problem IMO.
From: East Toledo | Registered: Jul 2003
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cleome46
or you can do the confusion 'til your head falls off
posted
Blockade Boy:
quote:If they're going to show the women fighting it best be realistic. I've yet to see one that didn't involve hair pulling, scratching and booby punches.
[snerk] Yeah, well that means a lot of unisex groin-punching/kicking, too. Also nosebleeds.
-------------------- Hey, Kids! My "Cranky and Kitschy" collage art is now viewable on flickr. Drop by and tell me that I sent you.
From: Vanity, OR | Registered: Dec 2008
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Set
There's not a word yet, for old friends who've just met.
posted
quote:Originally posted by Blockade Boy: If they're going to show the women fighting it best be realistic. I've yet to see one that didn't involve hair pulling, scratching and booby punches.
On the other hand, this is the Legion of Super-Heroes. I'm pretty sure I don't want to see them going all Jason Bourne/James Bond with the brutal fighting styles... Some of them are supposed to be fairly nice people (Luornu, in particular, was a really nice person, who turned into some sort of Trijutsu pain-dispenser, which bugged me a lot. Dawnstar or Shady, I could see being brutally efficient in combat, but sweet Lu? Yikes. Give her the power to go all Madrox, if she needs to be 'buffed,' don't turn her into some KGB-trained Stephan Seagal wannabe!).
Registered: Aug 2006
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