quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: I'm not opposed to having non-classic characters show up, but not at the expense of these already under-utilized classic Legionnaires!
You're equating the terms 'classic' and 'Silver Age'. What makes Chemical King more 'classic' than Kid Quantum? He may be an older character than she is, but I don't think he's a better character.
My idea is that all eras of the Legion count equally. And therefore the Silver Age is quite overrepresented. I don't object to any of the four characters in the thread title showing up, but if I was looking to add characters to the cast of the book I would definitely not be looking at them first.
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The difference is that when waid started this run there was all that talk about his love of the silver age legion stories/characters. The fact that these four haven't shown up IS significant in light of this.
I'd love to have a not-blown-to-smithereens Blok show up in this continuum, but it probably won't happen until the early 2010's when some new writer we've never heard of reboots the book again proclaiming his hard-on for the Levitz-Giffen era books of the 1980's.
-------------------- All you need is Love (and a whole big bucket of Money).
From: Lost in the Ozone Again | Registered: Dec 2005
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Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
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That's my point. If you're going to have a Legion that's rooted in the Silver Age, and yet you blatantly leave out a number of Silver Age characters, their absence is conspicuous.
Now, if Waid had decided to start the series with a mixed cast from all eras, fine. That might even be cool. Personally I could've done without Ultra Boy, for example, as he's been way over-exposed in the past few versions of the team and not much good has been done with him since early v4.
I think it's kind of goofy to have almost all the Silver Age characters, but to add in, say, Kono, and then ten years down the road to introduce Ferro Lad significantly inexperienced compared to the rest of the team and being trained by Kono.
[ December 05, 2006, 03:49 PM: Message edited by: Eryk Davis Ester ]
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:The difference is that when waid started this run there was all that talk about his love of the silver age legion stories/characters. The fact that these four haven't shown up IS significant in light of this.
Significant of what?
They can't use everybody. They can't make things too similar to previous Legion versions; that's the trap that the reboot fell into. It's possible to admire the Silver Age stuff without wanting to reconstruct it entirely.
quote:I think it's kind of goofy to have almost all the Silver Age characters, but to add in, say, Kono, and then ten years down the road to introduce Ferro Lad significantly inexperienced compared to the rest of the team and being trained by Kono.
The roster is all Silver Age. Waid's Legion is rooted in the Silver Age. It's the reason many don't like it including me.
Bring Blok back with the code name Stone Boy. But make sure it's Blok...not Dag.
With the death of Cockrum I am hoping Waid slows down on the Silver Age...and give us a member who isn't a boy or lad. WILDFIRE!!!!!!!!
From: Tampa | Registered: Mar 2004
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While I feel that Wildfire is the one member that *needs* to be back to make this feel like the Legion, I wish Tenzil and Chuck would get their due, because they never did in the Reboot.
As for new characters--cripes, good luck! There's about a 1:5 ratio of good new characters to crappy ones that everyone hates with the Legion, and I feel the main reason is because most Legion fans want old favorites back and are unhappy until they get them. I, for one, will require the creators to WOW me with a new character and be much harsher in my critique than in bringing back an old character, because I want characters I'm already invested in back. However, new concepts, love interests, stories, villains, locations and supporting characters are beyond neccessary at this point.
There are many Legionnaires from all eras that deserve to be back (and Gates of the Reboot is at the forefront as an example of a most recent), but its become almost like a travesty that Matter-Eater Lad, Bouncing Boy and Ferro Lad continue to get the shaft. I feel it must be addressed, before all of Legion Fandom--and thus, all the world--be torn asunder!
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:There's about a 1:5 ratio of good new characters to crappy ones that everyone hates with the Legion, and I feel the main reason is because most Legion fans want old favorites back and are unhappy until they get them.
You're saying that, of every six new Legionnaires introduced, one is good and five are bad.
Your explanation is that Legion fans don't like new characters as much as they like old characters.
Well, if that explanation is true, maybe the quality of the characters isn't the problem.
(When it comes to Matter-Eater Lad, Bouncing Boy and Ferro Lad, I think that the reboot treated all of them very well. Ferro got to live, for one thing. Tenzil was only in a supporting role, but not a bad one. And I liked reboot-Chuck very much; I thought he was a great character.)
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(Great, I reply, the page doesn't refresh, and my post is lost )
I'm not saying that the above is a good thing, but I do think its a pattern we've grown to see over the years. New members are introduced and lots of people dislike lots of them. And I think that's mainly because most Legion fans want old favorites to be back on the team, and they dislike the notion of the team being filled up by new members, *especially* if they replicate missing members powers or personalities.
I agree with you that the reboot was respectful, and agree completely on Ferro, but I do wish Chuck and Tenzil had a chance to at least be in costume as members of the team, albeit briefly. A four part story paying them respect as actual members of the Legion with homage to their histories would have been preferable. Not having that at all feels like a bit of a slap in the face to the Silver Age Legion's past no matter how nice it is. But I like Jorg's idea of at least having them star in the cartoon.
I'm more along the same lines as most in that the characters I most want come from different eras than the Silver Age (Wildfire, Dawnstar, Kent Shakespeare, Gates). I'd like to see them 'close out' the Silver Age cast with the remaning 4 and move forward myself.
Above all though, I completely believe that in order for the Legion to be successful and to recapture the magic, it must break new ground storywise and move forward, progressing from past Legion stories. I'd just like to see it done with characters historically associated with the team that many fans have an invested interest in.
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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And if anyone asks, yes, I was one of those posters back 2000 that crusaded and crusaded for Andy Lanning and Dan Abbnet to kill Monstress, and they pleased us all
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:I agree with you that the reboot was respectful, and agree completely on Ferro, but I do wish Chuck and Tenzil had a chance to at least be in costume as members of the team, albeit briefly.
Well, along those lines... one of my favourite moments was in the Braal issue of Legion Worlds:
"Welcome aboard the Bouncing Boy."
You've been using words like 'travesty' and 'slap in the face'. And I can understand how it feels like that, but I'm sure that it's not perceived as such on the creators' end. It's probably just an artistic choice.
Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
posted
I think the main thing for me is that when you have a cast that's clearly modelled on the Adventure Era team, and you leave out several members, with (at least apparently) no good reason, then of course fans of those characters are going to be upset by their lack of inclusion.
I would say the same thing if Waid had filled the book only with characters introduced after Zero Hour but had left out, say, Kinetix and Gear.
I see no good reason why they couldn't have started the book with twenty-four characters rather than twenty. The absence of these characters is conspicuous.
That said, I certainly think Wildfire, for example, is probably a far more identifiable/key character to the Legion mythos than, for example, Chemical King. The is probably true of Dawnstar or XS, for that matter. I'd also suggest that Matter-Eater Lad, being one of the most recognizable Legionnaires, is more important than a number of the current members of the team, however.
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
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Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
posted
quote:Originally posted by Ultra Jorge: The roster is all Silver Age. Waid's Legion is rooted in the Silver Age. It's the reason many don't like it including me.
Most of the complaints I see about the team aren't about the roster (which is clearly rooted in the Silver Age), but the characterization or storytelling styles, which are far closer to later incarnations of the team than to the Silver Age.
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
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The problem with MEL and BB is they don't translate as well.
Waid is trying to make the silver age cool again trying to make it "retro cool".
Look at the Mustang car they brought back the "classic" design. How many other car companies have done that?
MEL and BB are not mustangs. They would be whatever obscure low selling ugly car was around back then. In other words they do not have mass appeal...and I can think of a dozen characters that are better.
Matter Eater Lad has one of the worst names I've ever seen...and powers. If they retooled him called him Devourer...gave him energy absorption powers...fine.
Bouncing Boy belongs in a cartoon.
Ferro Lad I think can work personally. But again he's not this popular character. (like WILDFIRE)
Waid is going back to basics...which I hate. But I am glad he isn't bringing things that don't translate well these days. (or do I thank Kitson for that?)
From: Tampa | Registered: Mar 2004
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And somehow, even in a thread listing 4 Legionnaires, Condo gets pushed to the curb and barely mentioned! Bah! I say, bah! to all non-Condo proponents!
Condo could be a powerhouse, if the writer understood how truly remarkable his ability to affect chemical reactions can be. All the others have at least been a part of the team in the recent past. Condo was relegated to the role of a journalist that made 2-3 appearances at most since his death.
He deserves a chance to shine.
* See my sig line
-------------------- "Hey Jim! Get Mon out of the Zone!! And...when do we get Condo back?"
From: Paragon City on patrol | Registered: Jul 2003
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