posted
To me, this line expresses one of the core principles of the Legion. Legionnaires are selflessly devoted to each other, individually and collectively, and will do anything for their teammates or for the team as a whole. This is why they work so well together and why all Legionnaires are equally valuable, regardless of their relative power levels.
So for example, as much as Phantom Girl disliked Sun Boy during the Levitz era, I think she would gladly have laid down her life for him, simply because they were both loyal Legionnaires. Devotion to the Legion is a principle that transcends the individual identities or personalities of the Legionnaires. It's what makes it possible for such radically different people to get along so well together.
Some of the more interesting Legion stories have dealt with what happens when this principle breaks down, or when various Legionnaires are conflicted as to how best to follow it. For example, in Levitz's Conspiracy storyline, the four conspirators take actions that are detrimental to teamwork and team unity, but their larger purpose is to protect the rest of the team, by making sure that they will be the only ones to risk their lives against the Time Trapper.
Mutual loyalty is what the Legion is all about, in my opinion. And since Geoff Johns understands this so well, maybe he would be the best choice as the next Legion writer.
Responses?
-------------------- Aaron Kashtan/Sir Tim Drake
From: Providence, RI | Registered: Feb 2005
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Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
posted
One of the things that intrigues me about that line is what it is a response to.
Geo-Force: "That's not only ridiculous, Superman, it is insane."
To me, that sounds suspiciously like an acknowledgement of all the comic fans out there who *don't* really get what the Legion is all about.
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
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I think your argument is sound, Sir Tim, but it applies not only to the Legion, but to the military, the police, and most such organizations.
As positive as that sounds, there is a danger in it as well. Cover-ups of abuses and other forms of "groupthink" can be linked to the fact that people don't want to upset the group or air a dissenting opinion. I haven't read the Conspiracy story in awhile, but it seemed to me that Levitz was working with this same idea: those four were making a decision they believed to be right but knew the rest of the Legion would not support, hence the need to do it in secret.
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
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Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
posted
It's from the previews to the upcoming JSA issue.
Actually, this story sounds a lot like the Conspiracy storyline, in that it apparently features six or seven Legionnaires who are basically willing to sacrifice themselves, and are doing so without telling the other Legionnaires (they mention keeping the "Big Three" in the dark). Similarly, part of the Conspiracy storyline is that the conspirators were going on what they believed to be a suicide mission, and that's why they didn't tell the other members.
For that matter, in the original Lightning Lad revival story, Mon-El kept the means of revival a secret for most of the story, because he planned on sacrificing himself to revive Garth.
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
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With those three words, in that context, following that set of flashbacks, Johns out-Legioned the entire Waid run.
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
Well said Sir Tim. As to this part of what you said:
quote:Originally posted by Sir Tim Drake: Mutual loyalty is what the Legion is all about, in my opinion. And since Geoff Johns understands this so well, maybe he would be the best choice as the next Legion writer.
Responses?
I agree with you 100 percent! He nailed the JSA and made it work, and in just a few short scenes, shows he understands the Legion more than anyone that has written the title in years. We should be so lucky to have him take over the book.
From: PEI, Canada | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
Oh yes but we've said this before about writers that accomplished a snappy line. Johns has other habits that might not be so preferred on the book. Decapitation, disembowling, refrigerators all over the place, that sort of thing.
From: East Toledo | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Sir Tim Drake: Legionnaires are selflessly devoted to each other, individually and collectively, and will do anything for their teammates or for the team as a whole.
Of course one of the best examples of this is the fact that they retold the tale of ERG-1's sacrifice to save Gym (even after he had been rejected) as an example of what it means to be a Legionnaire... (I'm just sayin')
From: New York, NY | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
This was a very touching line and I think we react to it because our devotion to the Legion is unexplainable, as EDE pointed out.
It had me wondering why the same sense of devotion wouldn't be felt by Superman for the JLA. Is it because the Legion came together as teens and, for the most part, didn't have any hero status prior to joining? Once they're adults, they acquire families and the devotion is divided. Their superhero identity comes from being part of the group, whereas the JLA were active and established as individuals prior to joining.
The Teen Titans don't seem to generate this same sentiment - because they were initially sidekicks and more devoted to their elder superhero? There is certainly something unique about the Legion.
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: One of the things that intrigues me about that line is what it is a response to.
Geo-Force: "That's not only ridiculous, Superman, it is insane."
To me, that sounds suspiciously like an acknowledgement of all the comic fans out there who *don't* really get what the Legion is all about.
Well it depends if you mean the lightning rods and the proty thing is ridiculous or the members willing to sacrafice themselves to revive Lightning Lad.
From: Tampa | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
The exchange between Superman and Geo Force is brilliant! Kudos to Geoff for saying so much, so succinctly.
My take, for what it's worth, is this. A couple of times in my life, when I was an "adolescent," I have been in situations with a group of friends where our affection and devotion to each other seemed "inexplicable." Looking back, it was beautiful and terrifying at the same time. And I outgrew it. I remain friends with some (not all), but in an adult, "I live 1000s of miles away from you" sort of way. I think this is what Supes is tapping into. He is devoted to the League, no question about it, but it is not a fanatical, "us against the world" sort of devotion. How could it be? He's no longer a youth.
-------------------- ...but you don't have a moment where you're sitting there staring at a table full of twenty-five characters with little name signs that say, "Hi, my superpower is confusing you!"
From: Chicago, IL | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
I think in many ways, the Legion is much truer to the heroic ideal than many other groups. Maybe it's because, for the most part, they're it... there aren't dozens of groups and hundreds of soloists running around, fighting the good fight.
Not to mention, they operate on a far grander scale than any other group in history. Even when the JSA was the only group around, they still were only protecting America (even though their scope was global). The Legion defends the galaxy. Every single member was crucial to protecting the universe. That's alot to carry on your shoulders, and is bound to push teamwork to a new level.
-------------------- Some people are like slinkys: not really good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when you knock them down a flight of stairs
From: Penthouse atop Levitz Hall, LMBP Plaza, Embassy Row, Legion World | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by doublechinner: My take, for what it's worth, is this. A couple of times in my life, when I was an "adolescent," I have been in situations with a group of friends where our affection and devotion to each other seemed "inexplicable." Looking back, it was beautiful and terrifying at the same time. And I outgrew it. I remain friends with some (not all), but in an adult, "I live 1000s of miles away from you" sort of way. I think this is what Supes is tapping into. He is devoted to the League, no question about it, but it is not a fanatical, "us against the world" sort of devotion. How could it be? He's no longer a youth.
Maybe another lesson of the Legion is that you don't need to outgrow your youthful enthusiasm and devotion -- that this feeling is worth preserving into adulthood.
And maybe this is the real utopian principle behind the Legion. In the 20th and 21st century, it's not possible to remain a teenager all your life; sooner or later you have to wake up to the harsh realities of adult existence. Maybe the 31st century is a time when youth and adulthood are no longer so incompatible.
[ May 29, 2007, 05:05 PM: Message edited by: Sir Tim Drake ]
-------------------- Aaron Kashtan/Sir Tim Drake
From: Providence, RI | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
The Legion has the distinction of growing up together -- they join as teens, live together, have no outside life and die as Legionnaires. There aren't any other teams I can think of that spend *all their time* together. (maybe certain versions of the Doom Patrol, but I'm not sure)
From: New York, NY | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Fat Cramer: The Teen Titans don't seem to generate this same sentiment - because they were initially sidekicks and more devoted to their elder superhero? There is certainly something unique about the Legion.
While the sentiment hasn't been as consistently there as it has with the LSH, the Titans *have* exemplified it, from time to time. For me, most notably in the Technis Imperitave mini-series (JLA/TITANS?) from a few years ago.
That story saw characters like Wally West and Dick Grayson aligning themselves with the Titans against their mentors, pretty much unapologetically. The series that followed pretty much squandered the ideals that the mini gave the characters, though a couple of flashbacks set in the Fab Five's past hinted at what fun a look at this time in the characters' lives could be.
I'd love to see DC do a mini-series every year reuniting the Fab Five and other adult Titans. They needn't be a full-time team, but a group of people who catch up on each others' lives; facing problems both human and villainous. The mini could include lots of flashbacks similar to those in the first year or so of the previous Titans book.
All of which leads me to conclude that Red Arrow wouldn't find the idea Superman expresses 'insane' at all. I'd guess that he'd recognize it in himself. In fact, this mission oughtta lead to him spending some time with Dick Grayson and Donna-- maybe prompting them to look for Wally and Garth?
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