posted
More often than not, we've seen Coluans (not just B5) insulting or intolerant of other peoples. As we sadly know, people can think that others are stupid/inferior/sub-human if they simply have different cultural practices, perspectives or lifestyles. Just look at how aboriginal people have been treated by European invaders - and now we realize that traditional cultures have a lot to teach us. (NB: I'm not just blaming Europeans, just an example.)
So I was thinking today, in a discussion about aboriginal mathematics - or lack thereof - that many of the characters and races at whom Coluans snub their green noses merit far better treatment: they just think differently. After all, have we seen any Coluans do anything but be super-scientific and techy? Have any of those big brains espoused Ghandian principles or made an "I have a dream" speech? All this Level 6 - Level 9 - Level 12 stuff - if that's a Coluan test, I suspect it's biased.
This is along the lines of my earlier question "Does Brainiac 5 believe in god?" - I'm just wondering if other people view the Coluans in this way.
I'll have to go back and read the post-boot intro of Andromeda - who was clearly a racist - IIRC, Brainy went to great lengths only to convince her that he was not inferior to her - no worry about what she thought of others.
Id have to say from our perspective yes. But I'm sure that if you asked a Coluan s/he would say absolutely not. I'll refer you to Kipling's poem which I'll copy the first two verses here. Imperialism was terribly racist but i'd say the contemporary figures of the day actually saw it as a horrible burden.
Take up the White Man's Burden Rudyard Kipling
Take up the White Man's burden-- Send forth the best ye breed-- Go, bind your sons to exile To serve your captives' need; To wait, in heavy harness, On fluttered folk and wild-- Your new-caught sullen peoples, Half devil and half child.
Take up the White Man's burden-- In patience to abide, To veil the threat of terror And check the show of pride; By open speech and simple, An hundred times made plain, To seek another's profit And work another's gain.
posted
Darn it I just can't look at that drek without quoting the response......
I wonder if Donald Rumsfeld likes this poem ? Verses 3 and 5 could actually have been written last week.
The Brown Man's Burden By Henry Labouchère Truth (London); reprinted in Literary Digest 18 (Feb. 25, 1899).
Pile on the brown man's burden To gratify your greed; Go, clear away the "niggers" Who progress would impede; Be very stern, for truly 'Tis useless to be mild With new-caught, sullen peoples, Half devil and half child.
Pile on the brown man's burden; And, if ye rouse his hate, Meet his old-fashioned reasons With Maxims up to date. With shells and dumdum bullets A hundred times made plain The brown man's loss must ever Imply the white man's gain.
Pile on the brown man's burden, compel him to be free; Let all your manifestoes Reek with philanthropy. And if with heathen folly He dares your will dispute, Then, in the name of freedom, Don't hesitate to shoot.
Pile on the brown man's burden, And if his cry be sore, That surely need not irk you-- Ye've driven slaves before. Seize on his ports and pastures, The fields his people tread; Go make from them your living, And mark them with his dead.
Pile on the brown man's burden, And through the world proclaim That ye are Freedom's agent-- There's no more paying game! And, should your own past history Straight in your teeth be thrown, Retort that independence Is good for whites alone.
posted
It was a message to the US. Too bad the United States decided to heed its call instead of staying with its founding principles. Funny it came in 1898 the same year as the frontier closed. I'm a firm believer in parts of the Turner Thesis for this and many other reasons.
Anyways back to the Coluans, just look at the freaks they spawn. Brainiac and his whole line of villains. If Coluan societ weren't racist would they have had the fertile ground to sprout out of.
posted
Good question. I think a lot of it depends on the definition of racism the question uses. In the context of the universe, they're probably ethnocentric rather than racist. They definitely tend to believe that their view of the universe is the correct one, and anyone that doesn't see things their way is inferior. But they don't seem to aggressively push their view (with the notable exception of Brainy) or act with malice toward other races. Not only aren't they expansionist, they've gone to great lengths to ensure their isolation (shrinking themselves and surrounding the planet with an impenetrable barrier).
However, to an off-worlder trying to live and work on Colu, they would probably be racist. Coluans would be the majority, have all the power in their society, and probably be reluctant (at best) to entrust non-Coluans with positions of power and responsibility. Even if an off-worlder made it that far, maintaining any type of credibility would be incredibly difficult.
Though we haven't really seen any Coluans, other than Brainy, who aren't drooling on themselves. Perhaps we shouldn't stereotype the entire race based on Brainy's behavior?
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Well, Colu has always been presented as insular, for various reasons. The DnA Coluans we met - delegates to the U.P. and Sharn Nux - were pretty condescending to everyone. Their attitude towards Robotica was to go for genocide - or robotocide. One reason I was disappointed that the Robotica story was never continued - it would have been so interesting to see how the Coluans (and others) dealt with it all.
In the 5YL stories, there was a scientist, Francis Campbell, who was reportedly the only non-Coluan ever offered the title of Brainiac. In that series, they made an exception for one exceptionally bright person.
Racism is a matter of personal perspective - the people who think they're superior no doubt believe they're truly superior, as the Coluans seem to believe. They are superior, in a limited sense. We really don't see much evidence of them helping other peoples. I just find it odd that no character has commented on this aspect of Coluan society.
posted
When responding to these kind of questions, I'm always torn about whether to use all of Legion history as a base for response or just the current boot. I was just using the current boot here because I think this determination is going to rely on a consistent portrayal of the Coluans. If we cross boots, you could probably make the same argument for Orando. And maybe Titan. Definitely UP with respect to Sklar (I always wanted to see the Sklarians become major players in the Legion-verse). Titan (they had to wear badges in the DnA-verse, right?) Durla, and maybe even Rimbor (definitely the slums of the UP).
I'm going to have to dig out my 5YL books and re-read them; I don't remember Francis Campbell. I've never been a master of Legion trivia, but Brainy's always been my favorite Legionnaire and I'm suprised I've forgotten that.
(This is going to get long now - I apologize in advance, but I don't think this topic works well without extended discussion. I'll try to ramble as little as possible.)
With respect to racism, I've heard a number of different definitions for the word used. Almost twenty years ago my significant other went through diversity training as part of a move from a rural school district to one of the largest schools in the state. The definition of racism they used there emphasized power and opportunity and de-emphasized personal opinion. That definition stated, in part, that anyone who benefited from a racist power structure was in fact racist, regardless of the personal beliefs they professed. As a white male who's always thought of himself as very liberal, I was personally more than a little put-off by that definition. It led to a number of angry exchanges without any real resolution of the issue. A year later I received my first real management position (I'd been a shift supervisor before that), not because I was the best qualified candidate, but because the only candidate better qualified was a woman (to be fair to me, I didn't know that until a few years later and no one ever said it directly; after working with the people who promoted me for years, I do know now that that was a huge factor in my promotion) It didn't requre any knowledge or consent on my part to participate in that. Though gender bias isn't exactly racism, the same principle is operating there.
So the definition of racism I use now requires power. I as an individual can be prejudiced and bigoted, but I can't be racist unless I am actively participating in oppression. And I can participate in that without believing I'm superior to anyone. Remarks can be racist because they reinforce the existing structure. Telling or laughing at a racial joke, for instance, encourages acceptance of the beliefs that fuel the joke.
All of which brings me back to the Coluans. At least in this boot, they don't seem to wield a lot of galactic power. Unless your goal is to work on Colu, they're probably not going to have a huge influence on your ability to accomplish much of anything. In the universe at large, their intelligence is highly respected (Lyle's reference to scoring 'Coluan-high' could indicate that it's not just Coluan standards that rank them as highly intelligent), so that seems to be more fact than belief.
Across all boots, I think we also have to take into account that a major part of the groundwork for the Legion is diversity, diversity can't exist without difference, and the differences in a comic book are exaggerated and profound. Coluans appear to be, across all Legion incarnations, demonstrably and significantly more intelligent than just about anyone else around. Asserting that can't really be considered any more racist than asserting that Braalians, as a race, are the best magno-ball players and Carggites, as a race, are the best at splitting into three. It has a different context than "Race X is stupid" in the real world.
I agree with your point about the DnA Coluans, but I'm not sure that the Coluans have always been portrayed as quite that arrogant and malefic as a race. I didn't really care much for the DnA run, and I'm personally inclined to dismiss their characterization as an aberration. I'm not saying that's a valid argument, just explaining why I don't give it (their chacterization, not your point) a lot of weight.
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Interesting point about power and active oppression. I guess, when I'm thinking about where I would take the Coluan story from here, I wouldn't see them as oppressors so much as intellectual snobs who don't see that there may be other ways to do things. Or, as TL's Kipling verses depicted, a people who, if they did look outwards, felt an obligation to bestow their way of life on other, "backwards" planets - less nasty but with possibly disastrous results. One reason Brainy has been so appealing throughout the versions is that while he has often been denigrating with his teammates, he himself is something of an outcast or oddball among his own people. Also, the Legion has provided ample opportunity for his comeuppance and he has tended to, well, get nicer as time goes along.
Personally, I'm very sloppy about the 'boots. All one big jumbled story as far as I'm concerned.
(BTW, Francis Campbell was in the 5YL stories with Darkseid.)
quote:Originally posted by Fat Cramer: I guess, when I'm thinking about where I would take the Coluan story from here, I wouldn't see them as oppressors so much as intellectual snobs who don't see that there may be other ways to do things.
Yeah, I agree with that completely. I wouldn't mind seeing the Coluans build closer ties with the rest of the universe as a result of their encounter with Lemnos. I think getting them to look outwards at all is a big step, regardless of how they see things when they do it.
I like your analysis of Brainy. I think that was one of the reasons his relationship with Kara, such as it was, was so poignant. Brainy is/was always a little out of step with the world around him.
Thanks for the pointer to Francis - though I haven't re-read the 5YL stuff for quite a while, and this is a great excuse to dig it out again
Registered: Sep 2004
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? Verses 3 and 5 could actually have been written last week.![[Smile]](smile.gif)
