future king
Excuse me but can you please direct me to the La Brea Tar Pits in Los Angeles?
posted
I'm opening this topic up for discussion.
Should the writer of the next installment of the LOSH in 2009 just use the Legion that will be left standing at the end of the events of Lo3W or should he start from stratch? If you want to see who's left standing then who all should be on the team and how have they been affected by the outcome of that mini series? Who should be "dead" or MIA, etc and what should those remaining Legionnaires be? Young? Old? Changed somehow?
I personally prefer a story to unfold slowly and introduce the characters gradually over time versus "ok our story begins with 25 main characters but only 3-10 will actually see any significant development over the first 25 issues or so". For example, I'd like to go back to basics and meet a Legion in 2009 that has the big three (founders) as established trend-setters of this new team plus 2 or 3 other members (let's say Trip, Phantom Girl and Brainy). They could then have us the readers meet "new" members as their stories unfolded (ie: meet Cham for the first time and discuss first-hand any biasis that the future has towards Durlans). Maybe they could wait a few issues in before time travelling to the past to meet Clark Kent for the first time.
What are your own personal views on the subject? How should the new creative team handle the new book? I am curious to hear your opinions.
From: ontario | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
They just did this a few years ago, albiet at an accelerated pace.
I honestly don't know. I lean toward, for the first time in nearly twenty years, just having a writer come in an tell stories. Not some over-arcing theme, not some 3 year long story, just tell us some good legion stories...THAT HAVE SUPER VILLIANS IN THEM!
You want a long story, give us the Fatal Five individually, them bring them together as a group. (If that is, you are starting from scratch.)
I want to see the Legion battle Mordru. I want to see Regulus on a rampage. Give us Pulsar Stargrave again. Give us the Super Villians on a tear through the galaxy.
Give us some nice subplots that don't take four freakin' years to come to fruition.
The Legion has built the single largest mythos in comic history as a team. They eclipse the JLA, the Avengers, the Titans...all of them.
Instead of being scared of this, the new writer, whoever it is, should come in balls to the walls and really tear it up. Hit fast and hard and leave the corpse's of the past incarnations in the dust. Duck and weave, and stick and jab. Large group stories, small group stories, entire group stories (and i do think the group should be limited in number to the old 25 at most.
The artist...should be someone that can produce on a regular basis and isn't scared of a large cast. Perez would be ideal, but lets face it, he is an event man now.
I want, adventure, intrigue, action action action!
I want what the legion was originally, a fun, fast, phenominal book, told in a modern style.
Geoff is on the right track, i think. But whoever takes over cant do this "we are going to build slowly and the fans will love it" thing.
Start fast, build fast, stick and move.
-------------------- Damn you, you kids! Get off my lawn or I'm callin' tha cops!
posted
First page of the first issue is a two page double fold-out Perez style battle-royal between Legion and .... someone/thing.
Give me a full Legion with an origin TBD. I can wait to find out where they came from and but not who they are as a team, both in battle and in the clubhouse. Save the name bubbles for the last page and the origins for later issues. let me see the team in action.
Yes I most definitely want them to start in the middle (or even the end) of saving the Universe from a major threat, then in coming issues give me two or three issue arcs while building the overall story.
[ December 14, 2008, 11:01 AM: Message edited by: Blockade Boy ]
From: East Toledo | Registered: Jul 2003
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Set
There's not a word yet, for old friends who've just met.
posted
quote:Originally posted by Blockade Boy: Yes I most definitely want them to start in the middle (or even the end) of saving the Universe from a major threat, then in coming issues give me two or three issue arcs while building the overall story.
Hell yes. The James Bond beginning, where something cool is happening *right now.* Waid started the first issue with the team all chatty around the clubhouse, and that fell flat for me.
If I'm buying the darn book, I already know who these people are, and even in books where I *don't* know who everyone is (Exiles, Guardians of the Galaxy, etc.) I very much prefer the first issue to hit the ground running, and I can find out who the hell Nocturne and Gamora are later.
Shooter did this better, starting with an action sequence on Triton, and then taking us back to the headquarters for some character development.
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
The Wild Wild West opening. Half the time, you wouldn't get who was what until halfway through the show.
This is a great technique for not having a lot of exposition, but giving the reader what they need while moving the story.
Yes, we want characterization, we want a little downtime here and there. But mostly, we want to see team in action. The downtime will come naturaly in the stories themselves.
Whoever takes over, i suggest they go back and read how Levitz did it. No, that doesn't mean repeat his "formula" and tell the same stories. It means learn how he scheduled his beats, adapt them for themselves, and move things along.
Largest problem i saw with the 3boot was that the stories tended to be about the "clubhouse". Now, Waid has an interview up at Comic Book Resources right now that talks about what took place then and how it hamstrung him and Barry, but the new writer needs to hit the ground at mach 3 with a hard burn behind them.
-------------------- Damn you, you kids! Get off my lawn or I'm callin' tha cops!
cleome46
or you can do the confusion 'til your head falls off
posted
I really liked the opening to the Waid/Kitson run.
[shrug]
Maybe it's a girl thing. Dunno'.
Whether or not you like the whole youth-rebellion angle (and I know a lot of old-timers didn't, for various reasons) that was the overriding theme that was supposed to (I presume) separate the run from other Legion interpretations-- as well as from other team books.
They wanted to make the theme absolutely clear right away, and they did.
-------------------- Hey, Kids! My "Cranky and Kitschy" collage art is now viewable on flickr. Drop by and tell me that I sent you.
From: Vanity, OR | Registered: Dec 2008
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Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
posted
I actually do like the idea of spending, like, half or three-fourths of the first issue on a big slugfest between the Legion and, say, Starfinger V and the New Taurus Gang or something. A good writer can actually do a pretty good job of introducing the characters, their basic personalities, and powers in such a situation.
I'd make the second issue a tryout issue, however.
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
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Set
There's not a word yet, for old friends who've just met.
posted
quote:Originally posted by rickshaw1: Largest problem i saw with the 3boot was that the stories tended to be about the "clubhouse".
That's always a problem for me. Unless there is a darn good reason for a group to be trapped in one environment (Deep Space Nine or Babylon 5, where the majority of the action takes place on the station, Voyager, where the majority of scenes occur on the ship, etc.), the action shouldn't be confined to one static location.
Especially in a setting as rich and colorful as the 31st century!
Issue one of the threeboot, we see the outside of the HQ and the inside of the HQ, and there's some talking about social issues. Issue 38, we see instead the methane slopes of Triton and the dome-city/ski-resort full of aliens that live, work and play there, suffering under an alien invasion! (And there was plenty of characterization!)
One of the strengths of storylines like the Great Darkness Saga or the LSV war is that they used exotic locations to great effect (Daxam in one case, Orando in the other).
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
I think Set's on to a good idea here. The Legion is one of the DC titles on which the writer and artist can really go for broke. It's not like Batman where at least 80% or more of the stories are going to be in Gotham. Look at the Adventure stories and they were throwing ideas around constantly.
I also couldn't agree more with rickshaw1 that there should be more stories with actual Supervillains. More of the Legion sitting around HQ bracing for another invasion would probably kill the concept for good. I am not a convert to John's vision for the Legion yet but at least the Action story used some traditional Legion concepts like the "outlaw Legion" and angry Legion rejects.
I would also like to see the violence toned waaaay down. I don't like seeing planets destroyed and bodies exploding on a regular basis. I want the rule against killing firmly reinstated (even as applied to cannon fodder alien invaders.) If a writer can't tell a good Legion story with that rule in place then go write "The Authority" or something. DC could really highlight the Legion as a unique title if they could put a little fun back into it.
From: Douglasville, GA | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by matlock: I also couldn't agree more with rickshaw1 that there should be more stories with actual Supervillains. /QUOTE]
That's fine... but it shouldn't necessarily be the same old supervillains. I've read all the Lightning Lord stories I need to. I've overdosed on the Fatal Five. I don't care if I never see Starfinger or Universo again. I especially never want to see Dr. Regulus again. The Legion's rogues gallery is mostly a big snooze to me. Let's have someone new and interesting!
Set
There's not a word yet, for old friends who've just met.
posted
quote:Originally posted by Matthew E: That's fine... but it shouldn't necessarily be the same old supervillains. I've read all the Lightning Lord stories I need to. I've overdosed on the Fatal Five. I don't care if I never see Starfinger or Universo again. I especially never want to see Dr. Regulus again. The Legion's rogues gallery is mostly a big snooze to me. Let's have someone new and interesting!
I'd definitely like to see more super-villains who are sort of 'plugged in' to the setting. There was an issue where some mysterious space pirates where attacking ships and always getting away, and it was determined that the pilot for the pirate vessel was a Bgtzln who would use a machine to phase the entire ship for their daring getaways. That was cool. It would also serve as a contrast to how heroic a choice figures like Luornu and Tasmia have made if we were to see some villainous Carggites or Talokkians. (Obviously, we've already seen villainous Imskians, Braalians, Titanians, Durlans, etc.)
I wouldn't mind seeing some of the newer stuff get used as well. Theena was the best new character in the entire threeboot, and there was a suggestion in Barry's art that she was intimately linked to the Dominators, somehow. It would be neat to see her brought back.
Terror Firma are potentially useful characters, and could be returned in a hardcore villain role, perhaps with an arm-less and blood-crazed Elysion as their new boss.
While I'm not terribly familiar with the stuff that happened between the Baxter years and the threeboot, I'm sure there has to be a compelling villain or group in there somewhere that could be gussied up with a new coat of paint.
Not every 'blast from the past' has to be Mordru or Universo or the Fatal Five. And, despite the success of Darkseid, I'm pretty sure that I don't want a lot of 20th century villains showing up in the 31st century. (Yes, R'as al-Ghul, that means you!)
I wanna see both new original villains, but also some old faces (if not necessarily old faces that anyone expected to see again...).
Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Matthew E: That's fine... but it shouldn't necessarily be the same old supervillains. I've read all the Lightning Lord stories I need to. I've overdosed on the Fatal Five. I don't care if I never see Starfinger or Universo again. I especially never want to see Dr. Regulus again. The Legion's rogues gallery is mostly a big snooze to me. Let's have someone new and interesting!
I wouldn't mind seeing the old Legion villains return, personally. When was the last time there was a legit Starfinger story, not counting the tease of one in the Zero Hour Legion? I'd love some compelling new villains, but not at the exclusion of the old ones. It's not their fault that there hasn't really been a notable villain introduced in 10 years (or more like 20.) There have been maybe half a dozen Universo stories ever, and only one since Zero Hour that was actually in continuity. I think where there really needs to be some developemnt is in the second tier of villains. We need more crooks, schemers, spies and evil geniuses that you can build a one-off or two parter around. You can't build much of a short story around Universo or Mordru, and if they start with a 6 or 10 part story I'm going to scream. From that perspective I would be happy to keep the big threats spaced out at once every few years so that you might go 5 years or more between Mordru stories but without dropping him altogether. Thinking about it a little more, I think a few more stories can be had just from using the futuristic/outerspace environment. Remember the old short story with Colossal Boy and Shrinking Violet in space? The "threat" was not from a villain but a bizarre faux-asteroid creature that nearly swallowed Colossal Boy whole. It was a clever story that was as much a mystery as a superhero story.
From: Douglasville, GA | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by matlock: I wouldn't mind seeing the old Legion villains return, personally. When was the last time there was a legit Starfinger story, not counting the tease of one in the Zero Hour Legion?
There were a couple in LSH31C. In fact, I take back what I said to this extent: they can use the animated version of Starfinger every once in a while. He's good times.
quote: I'd love some compelling new villains, but not at the exclusion of the old ones.
Okay, not complete exclusion. The Fatal Five are good villains; just overused. I don't mind Mordru or the Time Trapper showing up once every five years or so.
quote:It's not their fault that there hasn't really been a notable villain introduced in 10 years (or more like 20.)
Last twenty years: Lemnos. Elysion. Singularity and the Credo. Jeyra Entinn. The Blight. Tangleweb. B.I.O.N. Alexis Luthor.
Those are just off the top of my head; I think I could find a couple of others if I really tried.
quote:if they start with a 6 or 10 part story I'm going to scream. From that perspective I would be happy to keep the big threats spaced out at once every few years so that you might go 5 years or more between Mordru stories but without dropping him altogether.
Set
There's not a word yet, for old friends who've just met.
posted
quote:Originally posted by Matthew E: Last twenty years: Lemnos. Elysion. Singularity and the Credo. Jeyra Entinn. The Blight. Tangleweb. B.I.O.N. Alexis Luthor.
As someone who doesn't think a whole lot of most of those (barring those he's never heard of, obviously), I think that kind of proves his point.
It's been a pretty dry run, when the biggest mastermind villain of the threeboot had the power to be forgotten, and, apparently, has been.
Registered: Aug 2006
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cleome46
or you can do the confusion 'til your head falls off
posted
[raises hand in support of more Alexis Luthor and more Jeyra Entinn.]
It was sad that Alexis only made it into the actual show one time (plus one cameo, I think). She should have been good for at least a two-parter. Just one more frustrating aspect to so much of Season 2 being all-boys-all-the-time. Glad to hear that she and the Disco-Stu Starfinger got some play in the comic before it was canceled, at least.
The thing that's awesome about Jeyra Entinn is that she functions as something of an "opposite number" to a major character like Imra. If you've ever wondered "how could somebody wield so much power over other sentient beings and NOT be corrupt, abusive, and highly creepy," you get the answer in Jeyra: A great many people would be corrupted. Some of them would embrace corruption, but they wouldn't think of themselves that way, necessarily.
That makes her pretty effective as a foe, on top of the fact that she's already powerful physically.
Also, back in the day, George Freeman had a great satirical strip where he deplored comic editors, writers and artists who wouldn't explore our world, but only "used it as a cheap backdrop." This applies just as well to future as to past and present. If we've got this diverse stew of planets, societies, and cultures, I wanna' see a few of 'em at length and in detail-- at least sometimes. Not just as a "cheap backdrop." In the hands of competent people, a great way to reveal a character's personality is to drop them into an unfamiliar environment and see how they cope, or don't cope.
-------------------- Hey, Kids! My "Cranky and Kitschy" collage art is now viewable on flickr. Drop by and tell me that I sent you.
From: Vanity, OR | Registered: Dec 2008
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