Calling the Roll is a character by character look at the latest issue featuring the teen-team supreme of the 31st century... the Legion of Super Heroes.
Let the Roll be called!
GARTH-IN-JAN: Now we know crystalline hair can be combed back, for that mature, ten-years-older-than-you-are look. I wonder... does it grow? If Garth gets a haircut, will the cutting grow into little Garths (or Jans)? Guess he's using all the time he'd usually spend sleeping to try out new styles.
He should get together with Dreamer and Wildfire (who I assume doesn't sleep either... but we don't know, do we?) They could form the Legion's Insomnia Squad.
Blue folks have got to stick together, so Garth steps in to Umbra's rescue.
Once again Garth shows the stuff of which he's made (and I don't mean crystal, baby). He's been mostly pretty graceful in the way he's handled the curves thrown at him lately. By the end of LOST, he'd truly matured into an admirable, heroic man who deserved to appear in the iconic founding three. It's nice to see that again, though his eagerness to sacrifice himself rang just a tad 'death-wishy'. I would've liked to see some scheming going on here.
SHIKARI: I really would've like to see "Kari step up to the plate here. We get one or two lines from the character most personally connected to the second galaxy. Whatever happened to that old Legion tradition of the Legionnaire from a particular planet leading any mission to that planet? Instead of that scenario, we see Kid Quantum, Cosmic Boy and Saturn Girl once again at the lead. Shikari facing Singularity would've been *much* more effective, IMO.
BRAINIAC 5: He didn't get much dialogue, but Batista gives him very expressive body language. You can sort of guess the tone of his thoughts by his poses. Nice work.
UMBRA: Hmmmm... Umbra and Superboy !???!!
Another character whose unique take on things would've been worth 'hearing'. What did she think of her return to the second galaxy?
SUPERBOY: So if Cos told Supes *not* to read a briefing, wouldn't you think that'd tempt Kon to give it a peek?
M'ONEL: I think Lar should make the look on page four his permanent one. Definitely.
Wouldn't 'Exposition Lad' have first thought 'Element Lad' instead of 'Progenitor'? For just a second? C'mon... can't at least *one* damn character think about Jan first?
TIMBER WOLF: Best he's looked since his introduction. Interesting that he's sort of taking the old Wildfire role of training/supervising cadets. Or perhaps all of the Legionnaires will be shown working with them from time to time.
"One punch" . Hee.
COSMIC BOY: Rokk's as pleased as a different kind of punch with his girlfriend/hand-picked leader, isn't he? Wonder if he's also pleased that Superboy actually listened to him and didn't read the briefing? Or was he attempting reverse psychology?
SATURN GIRL: At least Imra takes up for Jan here. I'm glad to see that. I wonder if she has a bigger role to play next issue? Otherwise, she's a bit extraneous.
KID QUANTUM: I could've done without the raised finger. Stereotypical. Am I being rascist if I say that I imagined it wagging when I read her dialogue?
Was it wise to give away the Legionnaire's abilities in her speech? Star Boy, M'onel, Saturn Girl and Jaz herself are robbed of the element of surprise.
ULTRA BOY and APPARITION: Rapprochement?
VIOLET: Can't wait to hear what Vi has to say... I LOVED seeing her on Cos' shoulder. Thank you!
The 'little voice' in a character's hear is a great role for Vi.
SINGULARITY: Ugh. Still, I sort of enjoyed him not letting Jaz get a word in edgewise, even if he is scum. He's a politician, it seems. Last page... transmutation? Did Singularity display an energy-effect before? I've forgotten... Will a being made of crystal resonate 'like to like'?
CREDOITES: Interesting designs... the masked, pink-haired cat being... the plant being (or is it a being wearing a shrub?)... always a treat.
SUMMING UP: My antennae are raised and quivering for next issue... which really should be an extra-sized one for all the story left to tell. Was the flashback originally meant to be a whole issue all on its own? Or even more? Poor, neglected Gates and Kinetix... shuffled to the side once again. They're the reboot Princess Projectra... who once went from suffering from Rigel Fever to the Pain Plague in a couple of close-together issues. Gates has Incarceration Fever... Zoe, the Meaningless Transformation Plague. Who, oh, who will step in to absorb their pain?
Anyone who has read CTR knows I'm an Element Lad fan. For me, reading page after page referencing Element Lad's 'evil' was painful. I have concerns... I'll leave it at that. But also a smidgeon of hope that still burns... Will it be enough?
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: GARTH-IN-JAN: Now we know crystalline hair can be combed back, for that mature, ten-years-older-than-you-are look. I wonder... does it grow? If Garth gets a haircut, will the cutting grow into little Garths (or Jans)? Guess he's using all the time he'd usually spend sleeping to try out new styles.
I don't think there's anything special about the crystal when Garth's not animating it. He should really get a "Garth" haircut tho. And maybe a resculpt into a Garth-face...
And a non-Element Lad costume.
And obvious question - the way it was described here, doesn't this basically make Garth (and quite possibly Ayla and Mekt by extension) immortal? Just get them hosts that can take an all-the-power-they've-got blast (clones even? If they have a sample of Garth's DNA - or even get a sample from Ayla and "edit" it slightly to make the clone male - would the clone body be able to take him?) and hey presto...
Heh. Well it's all true. And remember Jan spent less than 0.00000001% of his life as Element Lad...
Let's be honest here, it's a similar situation to Hal Jordan. A hardcore want him back, the rest see that the character went too far over the edge...
quote:Once again Garth shows the stuff of which he's made (and I don't mean crystal, baby). He's been mostly pretty graceful in the way he's handled the curves thrown at him lately. By the end of LOST, he'd truly matured into an admirable, heroic man who deserved to appear in the iconic founding three. It's nice to see that again, though his eagerness to sacrifice himself rang just a tad 'death-wishy'. I would've liked to see some scheming going on here.
I'm not entirely convinced there isn't a degree of 'death-wishy'ness here. Whether or not it's his primary motivation is another matter of course, but I think there's definately a part of Garth here that'd welcome the dark...
quote:SHIKARI: I really would've like to see "Kari step up to the plate here. We get one or two lines from the character most personally connected to the second galaxy. Whatever happened to that old Legion tradition of the Legionnaire from a particular planet leading any mission to that planet? Instead of that scenario, we see Kid Quantum, Cosmic Boy and Saturn Girl once again at the lead. Shikari facing Singularity would've been *much* more effective, IMO.
Well, KQ2 *is* the leader, so I suppose she has veto, Cos seems to be deputy, besides the rest, and, logically, a telepath's good to have in fraught "negotiations."
quote:BRAINIAC 5: He didn't get much dialogue, but Batista gives him very expressive body language. You can sort of guess the tone of his thoughts by his poses. Nice work.
mechana, if you'd please revert his forcefield to white/blue edges?
quote:UMBRA: Hmmmm... Umbra and Superboy !???!!
I think that comment merits an official "huh?"
And the lack of rection from some characters *could* be attributed to this only being a two-parter.
Could.
quote:SUPERBOY: So if Cos told Supes *not* to read a briefing, wouldn't you think that'd tempt Kon to give it a peek?
Yeah, but hey, that costume seems to have sucked his brains out.
Speaking of costumes...
quote:M'ONEL: I think Lar should make the look on page four his permanent one. Definitely.
Well, it would have been better than what he ended up with.
DAMN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And they are just going to ignore all the story stuff related to that costume?!?!?! Either he should be mobbed by people who think he's their living god, or villified by people who think he's blaspheming their god. At the very least there should be riots hundreds of times bigger than the ones Kon's stupid costume caused...
Hell, half the frelling Legionnaires don't know he's Valor!!!
Not to mention the impression given that he only put it on because he didn't have any real costumes spare...
Really, those two costumes are sucking most of the enjoyment out of this for me.
And "old friend" to Kon? Okay, Lar owes him a lot, but he's met him TWICE before! Once in the fight they had while he was amnesiac that ended with him in the Statis Zone, and once when he got him out. That's IT!
[YJ: OWWWWW doesn't count, since that was an alternate reality Lar]
quote:Wouldn't 'Exposition Lad' have first thought 'Element Lad' instead of 'Progenitor'? For just a second? C'mon... can't at least *one* damn character think about Jan first?
Lar's had to deal with [at least] six weeks of Jan-directed hatred. Wouldn't make sense if he didn't jump a little at seeing Jarth after that, knowing what Jan did for billions of years.
quote:TIMBER WOLF: Best he's looked since his introduction. Interesting that he's sort of taking the old Wildfire role of training/supervising cadets. Or perhaps all of the Legionnaires will be shown working with them from time to time.
I expect it's the latter.
quote:"One punch" . Hee.
Heh. Doesn't match Batman's one punch tho
quote:COSMIC BOY: Rokk's as pleased as a different kind of punch with his girlfriend/hand-picked leader, isn't he? Wonder if he's also pleased that Superboy actually listened to him and didn't read the briefing? Or was he attempting reverse psychology?
Reverse psych I expect.
quote:SATURN GIRL: At least Imra takes up for Jan here. I'm glad to see that. I wonder if she has a bigger role to play next issue? Otherwise, she's a bit extraneous.
Like I said, makes sense to have the telepath around.
And hey, Garth is still technically her fiancé, isn't he?
quote:KID QUANTUM: I could've done without the raised finger. Stereotypical. Am I being rascist if I say that I imagined it wagging when I read her dialogue?
Remind me to dig out that scan of Batista's Jolt from TBolts 72 or 74 at some point...
quote:Was it wise to give away the Legionnaire's abilities in her speech? Star Boy, M'onel, Saturn Girl and Jaz herself are robbed of the element of surprise.
Well, how are you going to defend against them easily?
What I was more concerned about is that she listed "turn back time" as if she could do it consistantly now, rather than a one-off...
quote:ULTRA BOY and APPARITION: Rapprochement?
Maybe. Not much to go on either way.
quote:SINGULARITY: Ugh. Still, I sort of enjoyed him not letting Jaz get a word in edgewise, even if he is scum. He's a politician, it seems. Last page... transmutation? Did Singularity display an energy-effect before? I've forgotten...
Yup - check the last page of Lost #6, and various points in Lost 7 (e.g. p14)
quote:Anyone who has read CTR knows I'm an Element Lad fan. For me, reading page after page referencing Element Lad's 'evil' was painful. I have concerns... I'll leave it at that. But also a smidgeon of hope that still burns... Will it be enough?
If Hal Crapadan can come back. Maybe.
[ April 30, 2004, 09:15 AM: Message edited by: Sanity or Madness? ]
-------------------- My views are my own and do not reflect those of everyone else... and I wouldn't have it any other way.
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: SUPERBOY: So if Cos told Supes *not* to read a briefing, wouldn't you think that'd tempt Kon to give it a peek?
Keep in mind that I haven't read the issue, but I'm assuming the debriefing was on an omnicom or something. If so, then theoretically Kon shouldn't have been able to read it. I mean, wouldn't it be written in Interlac? Unless of course Kon has managed to squeeze in some language courses since he's been back to the future...
-------------------- Some people are like slinkys: not really good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when you knock them down a flight of stairs
From: Penthouse atop Levitz Hall, LMBP Plaza, Embassy Row, Legion World | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
GARTH-IN-JAN: Now we know crystalline hair can be combed back, for that mature, ten-years-older-than-you-are look. I wonder... does it grow? If Garth gets a haircut, will the cutting grow into little Garths (or Jans)? Guess he's using all the time he'd usually spend sleeping to try out new styles.
Mineral-based hair is extremely difficult to style, but once you get it the way you like it, it tends to stay put.
I'm relieved to see even the most subtle change in Garth's appearance. I tell myself (not altogether convincingly) I can deal with this strange communion a while longer if only he looks less like Jan.
Garth's difficulty filling "the empty hours" on Legion World just serves to heighten our sense of Jan's utter aloneness during his billion-year sojurn in space.
To respond to SoM's idea: yes, I think it's quite possible all the Ranzz siblings are effectively immortal under certain circumstances, i.e., their electrical energy is captured in another form before it dissipates. Just one of the many loopholes provided to the next creative team. I hope they find another way of migrating him, however. I hate clones.
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Once again Garth shows the stuff of which he's made (and I don't mean crystal, baby). He's been mostly pretty graceful in the way he's handled the curves thrown at him lately. By the end of LOST, he'd truly matured into an admirable, heroic man who deserved to appear in the iconic founding three. It's nice to see that again, though his eagerness to sacrifice himself rang just a tad 'death-wishy'. I would've liked to see some scheming going on here.
He does seem more philosophical and accepting of his fate now, as if something of Jan's innate serenity actually rubbed off on him. If his death and transformation accomplishes anything, it might be to realign his personality with that of the (slightly) more even-tempered pre-boot Garth. Many readers are so turned off about the whole "Jarth" thing, they've overlooked some fine moments of characterization in this issue. The writers and artists were faced the challenge of getting Garth's misembodied persona across with only dialogue and body language. They convinced me.
I suspect there *is* scheming going on here -- off panel. In light of his outburst, it's easy to assume that Garth was defying orders by surrendering himself to the Credo. But between the time he stalks off and his arrival at the Credo base, he might have been convinced to participate in a more sensible plan of action. Perhaps he really isn't alone at all.
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UMBRA: Hmmmm... Umbra and Superboy !???!!
I'm not sure what you're implying here! Why didn't Umbra attack with her dark field instead of relying on martial arts? I was horrified by the image of my beloved Tasmia almost getting scalped. Lucky for her that Garth is instinctively protective of beautiful women. Hmmmm....
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M'ONEL: Wouldn't 'Exposition Lad' have first thought 'Element Lad' instead of 'Progenitor'? For just a second? C'mon... can't at least *one* damn character think about Jan first?
See my next comment. What struck me here is that M'onel didn't react with revulsion toward "Jarth"; he even showed him some warmth. This does nothing to help Jan, of course, but reflects well on Mon, in that he apparently doesn't equate Jan's physical form with something monstrous. In the panel where he clasps Live Wire by the shoulders, we see Saturn Girl and Cosmic Boy looking on...maybe with a tinge of guilt that they were incapable of the same generosity of spirit towards their co-founder.
I'm so pleased to see Mon back...with his new (old) costume.
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SATURN GIRL: At least Imra takes up for Jan here. I'm glad to see that. I wonder if she has a bigger role to play next issue? Otherwise, she's a bit extraneous.
Both Saturn Girl and Live Wire are under the impression that educating Singularity about Jan will serve some purpose. I honestly doubt that knowing Element Lad's tragic history would sway this "misguided monster" (unless my theory below proves true). Nonetheless, there are two Legionnaires, at least, who've not forgotten that Jan was once a "good man".
Imra standing around doing nothing in particular might seem extraneous, but I think it's important she of all people witness Garth finally exerting his personality.
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VIOLET: Can't wait to hear what Vi has to say... I LOVED seeing her on Cos' shoulder. Thank you!
Maybe little Vi was reminding Cos of the Subterfuge Squad!
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SINGULARITY: Ugh. Still, I sort of enjoyed him not letting Jaz get a word in edgewise, even if he is scum. He's a politician, it seems. Last page... transmutation? Did Singularity display an energy-effect before? I've forgotten... Will a being made of crystal resonate 'like to like'?
Yes, he displayed a green energy-effect in Legion Lost. So did Jan. BTW, have you heard my brilliant theory that Singularity is the only begotten son of Element Lad?
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CREDOITES: Interesting designs... the masked, pink-haired cat being... the plant being (or is it a being wearing a shrub?)... always a treat.
Batista's terrific work rendering the various Credo species in this issue just makes it that much harder to say goodbye.
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Anyone who has read CTR knows I'm an Element Lad fan. For me, reading page after page referencing Element Lad's 'evil' was painful. I have concerns... I'll leave it at that. But also a smidgeon of hope that still burns... Will it be enough?
I don't know what other people were expecting, but since I was long ago disabused of the notion that DnA would resolve the Garth-in-Jan thing during their run, I was free to enjoy this issue on other levels. As we bid farewell to this creative team the best I can possibly hope for is a few redemptive words in memory of the real Jan Arrah before they close the book. But even if DnA's last take on "Legion Lost" doesn't answer all our questions about Element Lad's ultimate fate, there's always the possibility that Waid and company will reingnite that "smidgeon of hope" in the future. Maybe we should start a campaign now.
From: Reimagined Trom | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
Originally posted by Mystery Lad: GARTH-IN-JAN: By the end of LOST, he'd truly matured into an admirable, heroic man who deserved to appear in the iconic founding three.
If you say so. I may have developed a block regarding his personality because, to me, he’s mostly seemed like a marionette—devoid of self-awareness and prone to whatever random actions fulfill the plot that was written.
…his eagerness to sacrifice himself rang just a tad 'death-wishy'. I would've liked to see some scheming going on here.
I have to believe that something else was going on from the beginning. To have all of the legionnaires fly in, ask for the hostages, and then leave empty-handed was just bizarre. Wasn’t Winema consulted? Wouldn’t the entire UP have taken issue with its envoy being taken hostage? Wouldn’t the Legion have needed to address Credo’s attack on Amshana as well? Wouldn’t Monel have been able to tell them that the “show-of-force” ploy would not have worked, and that it wouldn’t be enough if it did? So, anyway, I had to assume there was something else in the works—which just made the scene with Jazmin and Jarth arguing a bit silly. Anyone there should have been able to speak up and say that A: Singularity was lying and B: We’ve got a plan in the works anyway.
SHIKARI: I really would've like to see "Kari step up to the plate here. We get one or two lines from the character most personally connected to the second galaxy.
It would be nice to see more from her about the whole mess. Instead we got one line while she was fighting her path-kin—and a faintly-remembered line about the whole progenitor business way back at the end of Lost/beginning of Legion.
BRAINIAC 5: He didn't get much dialogue, but Batista gives him very expressive body language. You can sort of guess the tone of his thoughts by his poses. Nice work.
I didn’t get much from Brainy’s poses, specifically. Maybe I was just paying attention to other folks’ poses. I do, though, prefer the yellow force fields.
UMBRA: ...Another character whose unique take on things would've been worth 'hearing'. What did she think of her return to the second galaxy?
And you’d think Singularity would have at least acknowledged her battling him to a near standstill.
SUPERBOY: ...
I’m much more comfortable with his role this issue, probably just because he wasn’t in the spotlight.
M'ONEL: I think Lar should make the look on page four his permanent one. Definitely.
Now, now. We all know it’s the females who get to wear thongs and bikinis. Males have to cover everything with as much bulky material as possible. Voila—his new uniform.
Wouldn't 'Exposition Lad' have first thought 'Element Lad' instead of 'Progenitor'? For just a second? C'mon... can't at least *one* damn character think about Jan first?
Heavens no. And to think most of them did not even live through it. They sure must have gotten a good dose of the Legion Lost team’s perspective from somewhere.
TIMBER WOLF: Best he's looked since his introduction...
I didn’t really pay attention to him. It’s probably for the best.
COSMIC BOY: Rokk's as pleased as a different kind of punch with his girlfriend/hand-picked leader, isn't he?
Yes. I really wouldn’t mind a leadership shake-up. Or maybe even a disagreement.
SATURN GIRL: At least Imra takes up for Jan here. I'm glad to see that.
I was too. I have a special appreciation for Jan and Imra’s preboot relationship. I always thought there wasn’t enough shown of it. So, her sticking up for him harkens back to those days for me.
KID QUANTUM: ...
She sure suddenly seems the smooth and in-control leader. I guess facing Darkseid can lead one to be a bit more confident. I just kept wondering, “Aren’t these teenagers?”
ULTRA BOY and APPARITION: Rapprochement?
Is it? Perhaps we’ll finally find out in another year or so.
VIOLET: Can't wait to hear what Vi has to say... I LOVED seeing her on Cos' shoulder. Thank you!...The 'little voice' in a character's hear is a great role for Vi.
Agree completely.
SINGULARITY: ...
Lot’s of possible story with this fellow. I wouldn’t have pictured him leading a cult when he was originally introduced, but I suppose he regarded his planet as his followers previously.
CREDOITES: Interesting designs... the masked, pink-haired cat being... the plant being (or is it a being wearing a shrub?)... always a treat.
It is a good mix.
SUMMING UP: My antennae are raised and quivering for next issue... which really should be an extra-sized one for all the story left to tell...
How refreshing it will be if there really is a lot of story and action in a single issue. It’s already hard to believe that this arc wasn’t extended to the obligatory 4 or 5 issues.
Poor, neglected Gates and Kinetix... shuffled to the side once again. They're the reboot Princess Projectra... who once went from suffering from Rigel Fever to the Pain Plague in a couple of close-together issues. Gates has Incarceration Fever... Zoe, the Meaningless Transformation Plague. Who, oh, who will step in to absorb their pain?
And to think of all that Gates would have had to say about the whole cult mentality...and all of the standing that Zoe could have done.
Anyone who has read CTR knows I'm an Element Lad fan. For me, reading page after page referencing Element Lad's 'evil' was painful. I have concerns... I'll leave it at that. But also a smidgeon of hope that still burns... Will it be enough?
Remember when Jan left his teammates behind so he could confront Roxxas alone and sacrificed his life to eliminate the threat Roxxas posed to other worlds...sigh...
From: Portland, Oregon | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: KID QUANTUM: I could've done without the raised finger. Stereotypical. Am I being rascist if I say that I imagined it wagging when I read her dialogue?
quote:Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?:Remind me to dig out that scan of Batista's Jolt from TBolts 72 or 74 at some point...
Re: that scan (from TB 74):
[ April 30, 2004, 04:57 PM: Message edited by: Sanity or Madness? ]
-------------------- My views are my own and do not reflect those of everyone else... and I wouldn't have it any other way.
quote:Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?: I don't think there's anything special about the crystal when Garth's not animating it. He should really get a "Garth" haircut tho. And maybe a resculpt into a Garth-face...
And a non-Element Lad costume.
We don't really know anything about the properties of the crystals one way or the other. My comment was a joking one, but crystals *do* grow...
If GIJ *doesn't* do something about his appearance, even to the point of continuing to wear Jan's costume, the writers should make us privy to his reasons for keeping things as they are. Shock value? Affinity for Jan? Guilt? Pride? Anger? Did he watch Ingmar Bergman's PERSONA too many times?
quote:Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?: And obvious question - the way it was described here, doesn't this basically make Garth (and quite possibly Ayla and Mekt by extension) immortal? Just get them hosts that can take an all-the-power-they've-got blast (clones even? If they have a sample of Garth's DNA - or even get a sample from Ayla and "edit" it slightly to make the clone male - would the clone body be able to take him?) and hey presto...
Hmmm... immortal or already dead? Have Garth, Ayla and Mekt been walking around as if alive since being eloctrocuted to death on Korbal? 'Lightning Zombie'...
I wonder if the more likely possibilites you mentioned will ever be examined?
quote:Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?: Heh. Well it's all true. And remember Jan spent less than 0.00000001% of his life as Element Lad...
I *hate* that argument. Holds no weight with me at all. Sorry.
quote:Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?: Let's be honest here, it's a similar situation to Hal Jordan. A hardcore want him back, the rest see that the character went too far over the edge...
Yep. I'll cop to that. I admit it. But I think there's a big difference between Hal Jordan and Jan Arrah. For one thing, the Progenitor's account of what happened is still the claims of a *supervillain*. One wearing the face of a familiar character, yes. Different from Hal's breakdown.
quote:Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?: I'm not entirely convinced there isn't a degree of 'death-wishy'ness here. Whether or not it's his primary motivation is another matter of course, but I think there's definately a part of Garth here that'd welcome the dark...
I think you might be right. Which makes a nice, perverse twist in Garth's primarily heroic character.
quote:Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?: Well, KQ2 *is* the leader, so I suppose she has veto, Cos seems to be deputy, besides the rest, and, logically, a telepath's good to have in fraught "negotiations."
I don't dispute that, but the leader doesn't have to 'ride point' in every storyline, do they?
quote:Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?: I think that comment merits an official "huh?"
I know, I know. I left out a sentence with a silly, speculative bit of Legionnaire matchmaking.
quote:Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?: And the lack of rection from some characters *could* be attributed to this only being a two-parter.
Could.
Which was conceived as a longer storyline, I'm sure.
quote:Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?: And they are just going to ignore all the story stuff related to that costume?!?!?! Either he should be mobbed by people who think he's their living god, or villified by people who think he's blaspheming their god. At the very least there should be riots hundreds of times bigger than the ones Kon's stupid costume caused...
Perhaps M'onel will be taken for a devotee of Valorism, rather than as the return of a new Messiah.
quote:Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?: Hell, half the frelling Legionnaires don't know he's Valor!!!
I'm not so sure that's still the case. Remember M'onel and Apparition swapping stories with Gear and others around?
quote:Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?: Not to mention the impression given that he only put it on because he didn't have any real costumes spare...
That was dumb. The Athramites would have any number of new outfits planned out for all the Legionnaires, I'm sure.
quote:Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?: Really, those two costumes are sucking most of the enjoyment out of this for me.
Wow. Sorry. But at least you're reacting to valid story concerns rather than aesthetic snobbery.
quote:Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?: And "old friend" to Kon? Okay, Lar owes him a lot, but he's met him TWICE before! Once in the fight they had while he was amnesiac that ended with him in the Statis Zone, and once when he got him out. That's IT!
Clearly the quality of friendship is not proportional to the quantity of time spent together. Maybe Lar watched Kon for years after being placed in the Stasis Zone, and therefore feels closer to Kon than Kon would to him.
quote:Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?: Lar's had to deal with [at least] six weeks of Jan-directed hatred. Wouldn't make sense if he didn't jump a little at seeing Jarth after that, knowing what Jan did for billions of years.
I'd like for just one character to think of Jan first, the Progenitor second no matter what the circumstances. With this large a cast, is that so much to ask?
quote:Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?: And hey, Garth is still technically her fiancé, isn't he?
Huh-- at least till he talks to Tinya for awhile, he might be.
quote:Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?: Well, how are you going to defend against them easily?
What I was more concerned about is that she listed "turn back time" as if she could do it consistantly now, rather than a one-off...
Maybe she'll turn the crystal body's time back to when it was floating in space just after entering the second galaxy from outside the universe.
quote:Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?: Yup - check the last page of Lost #6, and various points in Lost 7 (e.g. p14)
Thanks.
quote:Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?: If Hal Crapadan can come back. Maybe.
quote:Originally posted by Spellbinder: Keep in mind that I haven't read the issue, but I'm assuming the debriefing was on an omnicom or something. If so, then theoretically Kon shouldn't have been able to read it. I mean, wouldn't it be written in Interlac? Unless of course Kon has managed to squeeze in some language courses since he's been back to the future...
Since Ferro's been in the 31st century for quite awhile, I'd assume translation programs would have been created for some time now.
If there isn't some sort of univeral translator feature contained in the Omnicom.
quote:Originally posted by Tromium Crystal: I'm relieved to see even the most subtle change in Garth's appearance. I tell myself (not altogether convincingly) I can deal with this strange communion a while longer if only he looks less like Jan.
Yeah, it does make him a bit more palatable, I suppose. If underlying psychologies were actually examined, I wouldn't mind it so much at all, really. But that's not going to happen in one more probably full issue. Who know what future teams have in store?
quote:Originally posted by Tromium Crystal: Garth's difficulty filling "the empty hours" on Legion World just serves to heighten our sense of Jan's utter aloneness during his billion-year sojurn in space.
Hmmmm. I wonder if Garth has thought that, or something similar?
quote:Originally posted by Tromium Crystal: To respond to SoM's idea: yes, I think it's quite possible all the Ranzz siblings are effectively immortal under certain circumstances, i.e., their electrical energy is captured in another form before it dissipates. Just one of the many loopholes provided to the next creative team. I hope they find another way of migrating him, however. I hate clones.
Unless they took the clone from *Mekt*, giving him a twin and fully restoring Ayla's twin as well. Making them triplets? I wonder how triplets are regarded on Winath?
That could create some interesting character dynamics, at least. Clone stories in the 31st century don't bother me too much, if they're well thought out. In the 'present', I feel the opposite. Unless I don't.
quote:Originally posted by Tromium Crystal: He does seem more philosophical and accepting of his fate now, as if something of Jan's innate serenity actually rubbed off on him. If his death and transformation accomplishes anything, it might be to realign his personality with that of the (slightly) more even-tempered pre-boot Garth. Many readers are so turned off about the whole "Jarth" thing, they've overlooked some fine moments of characterization in this issue. The writers and artists were faced the challenge of getting Garth's misembodied persona across with only dialogue and body language. They convinced me.
You made me reread the issue with that paragraph. I see what you mean, but I think some more overt 'listening in' needs to be shown.
Love 'misembodied'... way to coin a word!
quote:Originally posted by Tromium Crystal: I suspect there *is* scheming going on here -- off panel. In light of his outburst, it's easy to assume that Garth was defying orders by surrendering himself to the Credo. But between the time he stalks off and his arrival at the Credo base, he might have been convinced to participate in a more sensible plan of action. Perhaps he really isn't alone at all.
That seems so obvious now, but I really didn't think of that initially. My Legion espionage-dar must be down!
quote:Originally posted by Tromium Crystal: I'm not sure what you're implying here! Why didn't Umbra attack with her dark field instead of relying on martial arts? I was horrified by the image of my beloved Tasmia almost getting scalped. Lucky for her that Garth is instinctively protective of beautiful women. Hmmmm....
So we share a love for Element Lad and Tasmia...
I was mentally matchmaking Umbra and Superboy, somewhat jokingly.
quote:Originally posted by Tromium Crystal: See my next comment. What struck me here is that M'onel didn't react with revulsion toward "Jarth"; he even showed him some warmth. This does nothing to help Jan, of course, but reflects well on Mon, in that he apparently doesn't equate Jan's physical form with something monstrous. In the panel where he clasps Live Wire by the shoulders, we see Saturn Girl and Cosmic Boy looking on...maybe with a tinge of guilt that they were incapable of the same generosity of spirit towards their co-founder.
Yes, it does reflect well upon M'on. If Jan is restored, sooner or later, M'on should be one of the first to accept him. I'd think he'd understand the pressures of time and loneliness, if anyone could.
Nice observation about Cos and Imra. Perceptive.
quote:Originally posted by Tromium Crystal: I'm so pleased to see Mon back...with his new (old) costume.
I'd actually like something that combines a bit of the old look, too. I liked the starfield effect on M'on, and I don't really like losing it completely.
quote:Originally posted by Tromium Crystal: Both Saturn Girl and Live Wire are under the impression that educating Singularity about Jan will serve some purpose. I honestly doubt that knowing Element Lad's tragic history would sway this "misguided monster" (unless my theory below proves true). Nonetheless, there are two Legionnaires, at least, who've not forgotten that Jan was once a "good man".
I wish there was one Legionnaire, at the least, that cared about 'Jan' implicitly. Unfortunately, I don't think there is one.
quote:Originally posted by Tromium Crystal: Imra standing around doing nothing in particular might seem extraneous, but I think it's important she of all people witness Garth finally exerting his personality.
Good point. And I have a feeling she'll have even more reason to be there next issue.
quote:Originally posted by Tromium Crystal: Maybe little Vi was reminding Cos of the Subterfuge Squad!
I wish they'd bring back 'espionage squad', personally.
But I think you're right here... and others have agreed with you, too.
I thought perhaps Vi had just noticed something important... something 'small' that others would miss.
quote:Originally posted by Tromium Crystal: Yes, he displayed a green energy-effect in Legion Lost. So did Jan. BTW, have you heard my brilliant theory that Singularity is the only begotten son of Element Lad?
So, who's the mother, I wonder? Unless he's the son of asexual reproduction in the form of crystal breaking off from the 'main' body?
quote:Originally posted by Tromium Crystal: Batista's terrific work rendering the various Credo species in this issue just makes it that much harder to say goodbye.
I've decided that next issue will be but the end of Batista's *first* run as Legion artist. Hopefully, we won't have to wait long for his triumphant return.
quote:Originally posted by Tromium Crystal: I don't know what other people were expecting, but since I was long ago disabused of the notion that DnA would resolve the Garth-in-Jan thing during their run, I was free to enjoy this issue on other levels. As we bid farewell to this creative team the best I can possibly hope for is a few redemptive words in memory of the real Jan Arrah before they close the book. But even if DnA's last take on "Legion Lost" doesn't answer all our questions about Element Lad's ultimate fate, there's always the possibility that Waid and company will reingnite that "smidgeon of hope" in the future. Maybe we should start a campaign now.
Maybe we should.
I was really disappointed to read in one interview or another that DNA didn't even have an end in mind for GIJ when they added him to the Legion 'world'. Tsk-tsk.
Thanks very much for the comments and ideas, TromCrys.
TN
Considering your name, TC, are you also a fan, as I am, of Crystal, Marvel's homonymous elemental?
From: Knoxville, TN | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Awkward Pause Boy: If you say so. I may have developed a block regarding his personality because, to me, he’s mostly seemed like a marionette—devoid of self-awareness and prone to whatever random actions fulfill the plot that was written.
I guess I've seen more in Garth's portryal throughout the reboot. He was the runaway who enjoyed adventure until his secret came out and he had to go look for Mekt again. (I always thought he'd never have thought of Mekt again if Chu hadn't forced his hand!) Then, he was the whiny former Workforcer... then he had a brief moment of 'clarity' when Ayla was in the 20th century (I always thought there was a direct connection there). His discontent continued through the end of LEGIONNAIRES, with a few noticeable exceptions. When DNA took over, he began to grow, then relapsed when lost team was, well, LOST. Finally, he seemed mature and at peace with himself working on the hydroponics, thinking he had a secure relationship with distant Imra, sacrificing himself. I thought it was a nice arc, anyway.
quote:Originally posted by Awkward Pause Boy: I have to believe that something else was going on from the beginning. To have all of the legionnaires fly in, ask for the hostages, and then leave empty-handed was just bizarre. Wasn’t Winema consulted? Wouldn’t the entire UP have taken issue with its envoy being taken hostage? Wouldn’t the Legion have needed to address Credo’s attack on Amshana as well? Wouldn’t Monel have been able to tell them that the “show-of-force” ploy would not have worked, and that it wouldn’t be enough if it did? So, anyway, I had to assume there was something else in the works—which just made the scene with Jazmin and Jarth arguing a bit silly. Anyone there should have been able to speak up and say that A: Singularity was lying and B: We’ve got a plan in the works anyway.
Ah, politics. I wonder if DNA had their other three issues if they'd have included the political ramifications aroused by this situation. After all, the Kwai and the second galaxys have once again provided intersystem transportation.
Without that, the UP crashes.
I hope that the infrastructure of UP space travel is soon separated from the Legion. It's a bit much.
quote:Originally posted by Awkward Pause Boy: It would be nice to see more from her about the whole mess. Instead we got one line while she was fighting her path-kin—and a faintly-remembered line about the whole progenitor business way back at the end of Lost/beginning of Legion.
Am I crazy for thinking the hero from the place where a crisis occurs should be 'at point'?
quote:Originally posted by Awkward Pause Boy: I didn’t get much from Brainy’s poses, specifically. Maybe I was just paying attention to other folks’ poses. I do, though, prefer the yellow force fields.
I just wish his facial do-hickeys would disappear, unless he's using the force-fields.
quote:Originally posted by Awkward Pause Boy: And you’d think Singularity would have at least acknowledged her battling him to a near standstill.
Good point... maybe he didn't recognize her. Those blue people all look the same...
quote:Originally posted by Awkward Pause Boy: I’m much more comfortable with his role this issue, probably just because he wasn’t in the spotlight.
Superboy does work better as 'one of the cast', rather than major star.
quote:Originally posted by Awkward Pause Boy: Now, now. We all know it’s the females who get to wear thongs and bikinis. Males have to cover everything with as much bulky material as possible. Voila—his new uniform.
Even in 1,000 years. Maybe the Legion can pay a visit to 'Reversed Gender Role Expectations Planet' one of these days.
Who'd be more uncomfortable... the guys or the girls?
quote:Originally posted by Awkward Pause Boy: Heavens no. And to think most of them did not even live through it. They sure must have gotten a good dose of the Legion Lost team’s perspective from somewhere.
This bothers me... one of the beauties of a Legion-sized cast is that various members can have differing views about 'controversial' (or noncontroversial) topics, such as the way they view Jan.
quote:Originally posted by Awkward Pause Boy: Yes. I really wouldn’t mind a leadership shake-up. Or maybe even a disagreement.
I'm ready for a new leader, too. But I don't want to see a disagreement. Jazmin 'Quantumtime Queen' Cullen, who doesn't know how her powers work, might turn a favorite hero into protozoa.
quote:Originally posted by Awkward Pause Boy: I was too. I have a special appreciation for Jan and Imra’s preboot relationship. I always thought there wasn’t enough shown of it. So, her sticking up for him harkens back to those days for me.
Sigh. I'm so with you. My favorites were the SW6 Imra and Jan. When she comforted him after he accidentally killed the Dominators. And later when he was a source of solace to her in the early LEGIONNAIRES comic. Big sis/little bro...
It was a much more understated mentor/apprentice kind of relationship in the Levitz years. I do remember, fondly, the scene when she told Jan that she was proud of him...
quote:Originally posted by Awkward Pause Boy: She sure suddenly seems the smooth and in-control leader. I guess facing Darkseid can lead one to be a bit more confident. I just kept wondering, “Aren’t these teenagers?”
That's a familiar feeling for any Legion reader, I think.
quote:Originally posted by Awkward Pause Boy: Is it? Perhaps we’ll finally find out in another year or so.
Tee-hee... not feeling a little frustrated by the lightning-like speed with which this subplot has progressed, are you?
quote:Originally posted by Awkward Pause Boy: Lot’s of possible story with this fellow. I wouldn’t have pictured him leading a cult when he was originally introduced, but I suppose he regarded his planet as his followers previously.
Yeah, he seemed a much less politically astute (in a bludgeoning kind of way) kind of guy, didn't he? He's progressed sort of like the way you described Garth earlier... a marionette..."prone to whatever random actions fulfill the plot that was written". Come to think of it, that's a pretty good description of Jan as the Progenitor, too. Unless some huge revelations are going to be aired next issue.
quote:Originally posted by Awkward Pause Boy: How refreshing it will be if there really is a lot of story and action in a single issue. It’s already hard to believe that this arc wasn’t extended to the obligatory 4 or 5 issues.
I know it. I hope they can pull it off, but it's a tall order.
quote:Originally posted by Awkward Pause Boy: And to think of all that Gates would have had to say about the whole cult mentality...and all of the standing that Zoe could have done.
LOL! Poor Zoe... I can imagine Umbra saying that line! Or maybe Gates... or Lyle!
Maybe Gates'll get in a zinger or two, next issue. I doubt it, since he's hardly been a priority for DNA thoughout their run... I have a feeling it's gonna be all Garth, Imra, Brainy, Cos and Jaz next issue.
quote:Originally posted by Awkward Pause Boy: Remember when Jan left his teammates behind so he could confront Roxxas alone and sacrificed his life to eliminate the threat Roxxas posed to other worlds...sigh...
This could describe both Jan's origin issue and issue #50 (I think) of the 5YL series, when the souls of Trom brought Jan back to the living.
Good memories, both. Though mention of Jan's origin always brings to my mind a peculiar little theory I have about it and the way it fits into a certain ADVENTURE era pattern.
After 1,000 years in the whatever zone, it makes sense to me that M'On would (a) become fairly philosophical and act somewhat big brotherly towards anyone he knew before his imprisonment and (b) would also have become very lonely and want to reach out for any relationship he could nurture, especially with someone on a similar power level with him and from the same time period as him.
Thought #2:
Lots of people hate the Garth in Jan plot device. I wonder how it compares to the scads of readers who hated the Proty in Garth plot twist of the preboot. Which would y'all rather have? Garth in Jan or Proty in Garth? Me? I'd take Proty in Garth in a second.
-------------------- Buy my new graphic novel! http://www.dodeka12.com
From: Champaign, IL | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: I guess I've seen more in Garth's portrayal throughout the reboot...
I can see all of this as some form of development, but really I've just never been able to get past his obsession with Imra. I just don't know why he does it. I can recall points where Imra realizes her feelings for Garth, but all I can recall from Garth is a lusty shuttle ride followed by years of fixation, jealousy, angst... And I'm not trying to be unromantic or anything. I can deal with romance, but in this instance I just don't see anything there to work with.
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: I hope that the infrastructure of UP space travel is soon separated from the Legion. It's a bit much.
I'll second that. It's certainly interesting to note, for practicality's sake, but has become quite a bit much.
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: Am I crazy for thinking the hero from the place where a crisis occurs should be 'at point'?
I suppose that, if I wanted to defend her current level of participation, I'd say that it's harder to be point person for an entire galaxy than for a particular planet. Even so, I'd expect a little more involvement. Maybe some is coming in the next issue.
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: This bothers me... one of the beauties of a Legion-sized cast is that various members can have differing views about 'controversial' (or noncontroversial) topics, such as the way they view Jan.
It is pretty bothersome isn't it. Yet, excepting minor variations, everyone's fallen in line about what to think of the whole story.
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: Big sis/little bro...
Precisely.
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: Tee-hee... not feeling a little frustrated by the lightning-like speed with which this subplot has progressed, are you?
That's what I get for wanting resolution.
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: Though mention of Jan's origin always brings to my mind a peculiar little theory I have about it and the way it fits into a certain ADVENTURE era pattern.
What's this? A teaser? Out with it! (Or am I just missing something?)
From: Portland, Oregon | Registered: Jul 2003
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Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
posted
Interestingly, the Garth-survival story harkens back to something we originally learned back when Mekt made his first reboot appearance, namely that the Ranzz's now "bleed" lightning, indicating that they aren't really human anymore at all.
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by jimgallagher: Which would y'all rather have? Garth in Jan or Proty in Garth?
I'd probably take Proty in Garth too, but then I'd feel kinda guilty for all those Lightning Lad fans.
From: Portland, Oregon | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: Interestingly, the Garth-survival story harkens back to something we originally learned back when Mekt made his first reboot appearance, namely that the Ranzz's now "bleed" lightning, indicating that they aren't really human anymore at all.
Remember tho that, at the end of that story, Ayla & Garth completely discharged Mekt - and he survived (bleeding blood not electricity no less). The lightning wasn't animating them then, even if it's animating Jarth now.
-------------------- My views are my own and do not reflect those of everyone else... and I wouldn't have it any other way.
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![[Lightning Lad]](graemlins/LightningLad.gif)
![[Element Lad]](graemlins/ElementLad.gif)
GARTH-IN-JAN: Now we know crystalline hair can be combed back, for that mature, ten-years-older-than-you-are look. I wonder... does it grow? If Garth gets a haircut, will the cutting grow into little Garths (or Jans)? Guess he's using all the time he'd usually spend sleeping to try out new styles.![[Shikari]](graemlins/Shikari.gif)
SHIKARI: I really would've like to see "Kari step up to the plate here. We get one or two lines from the character most personally connected to the second galaxy. Whatever happened to that old Legion tradition of the Legionnaire from a particular planet leading any mission to that planet? Instead of that scenario, we see Kid Quantum, Cosmic Boy and Saturn Girl once again at the lead. Shikari facing Singularity would've been *much* more effective, IMO.![[Brainiac 5]](graemlins/Brainiac5.gif)
BRAINIAC 5: He didn't get much dialogue, but Batista gives him very expressive body language. You can sort of guess the tone of his thoughts by his poses. Nice work.![[Shadow Lass]](graemlins/ShadowLass.gif)
UMBRA: Hmmmm... Umbra and Superboy !???!!![[Cosmic Boy]](graemlins/CosmicBoy.gif)
COSMIC BOY: Rokk's as pleased as a different kind of punch with his girlfriend/hand-picked leader, isn't he? Wonder if he's also pleased that Superboy actually listened to him and didn't read the briefing? Or was he attempting reverse psychology?
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